EC Rumours

[BitsHammer]

Here's my take on the whole cut units thing: yes it's not great. I won't pretend it is, but at the same time they aren't legends. You can still run them in the C:CSM book and we should still have Noise Marine access in that book (just with better Noise Marines now). I would rather the ability to keep playing my stuff with a different codex than see it removed entirely but that's just me.

 

So it's like a glass half-full/half-empty situation.

 

I'm just saddened we don't see a way to flip it around and bring Bile in the army like how cult units get loaned out to the CSM codex.

[Plaguecaster]

How anyone can defend the chaos legions being made unable to take large amounts of chaos marine units is laughable.

 

Ah yes  a chaos marine sub factions must lose basically half their options including predators, helbrutes and whole lot of other stuff that makes them chaos marines in order to make them a sub factions  yet loyalist special chapters  get to keep everything  normal loyalists do well as have complete access to their unique chapter units,

 

oh just play them as normal CSM ah yes so to continue to play your original army you now must have to buy multiple codex books just to use your army and even then can never use everything in same army again 

 

 

[BitsHammer]

Crusade rules: 

 

4 minutes ago, Plaguecaster said:

How anyone can defend the chaos legions being made unable to take large amounts of chaos marine units is laughable.

 

Ah yes  a chaos marine sub factions must lose basically half their options including predators, helbrutes and whole lot of other stuff that makes them chaos marines in order to make them a sub factions  yet loyalist special chapters  get to keep everything  normal loyalists do well as have complete access to their unique chapter units,

 

oh just play them as normal CSM ah yes so to continue to play your original army you now must have to buy multiple codex books just to use your army and even then can never use everything in same army again 

 

 

I'm not defending it, I'm saying it could be worse and I'm just happy the minis are still playable. This edition has been taking stuff away from everyone and we're at least still able to use it without the Legends hanging like a Sword of Damocles over the units.

 

It could have been better, but it could have been worse.

 

EDIT: To clarify: I am not saying I am happy about it. I'm just not as upset about it as some other people are.

Edited March 1 by BitsHammer

[HeadlessCross]

16 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Crusade rules: 

 

I'm not defending it, I'm saying it could be worse and I'm just happy the minis are still playable. This edition has been taking stuff away from everyone and we're at least still able to use it without the Legends hanging like a Sword of Damocles over the units.

 

It could have been better, but it could have been worse.

 

EDIT: To clarify: I am not saying I am happy about it. I'm just not as upset about it as some other people are.

It could be worse than losing the most basic units like Cultists, Helbrutes/Dreadnoughts, and Predators?

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, HeadlessCross said:

It could be worse than losing the most basic units like Cultists, Helbrutes/Dreadnoughts, and Predators?

Again: you can still use them using the Chaos Marine codex you were already using to play them. And yes, we could have lost the ability to use them *at all* even in that codex.

 

Look, be mad if you want to but let's not pretend there isn't ways to use this stuff using a rulebook you already needed to run this stuff before they announced this codex.

[Rain]

30 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Again: you can still use them using the Chaos Marine codex you were already using to play them. And yes, we could have lost the ability to use them *at all* even in that codex.

 

Look, be mad if you want to but let's not pretend there isn't ways to use this stuff using a rulebook you already needed to run this stuff before they announced this codex.

 

The internet is the thief of joy. 

 

This is why I have stopped frequenting subreddits related to any of my hobbies or interests.

[BitsHammer]

8 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

The internet is the thief of joy. 

 

This is why I have stopped frequenting subreddits related to any of my hobbies or interests.

I reserved one of the six boxes my FLGS is getting in. This release isn't everything I wanted, but from what it is, I'm pretty happy. It's the most exciting release of this edition so far for me.

[01RTB01]

8 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I reserved one of the six boxes my FLGS is getting in. This release isn't everything I wanted, but from what it is, I'm pretty happy. It's the most exciting release of this edition so far for me.

 

Yup, I'd pre pre ordered two boxes. I loved noise marines back in second. Fulgrim and the heresy solidified my love of the Third. This release I'm stoked for and internet trolls aren't going to dampen my bonfire.

[BitsHammer]

4 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Yup, I'd pre pre ordered two boxes. I loved noise marines back in second. Fulgrim and the heresy solidified my love of the Third. This release I'm stoked for and internet trolls aren't going to dampen my bonfire.

Noise Marines always interested me, but the Bile trilogy really gave me such a great insight into the Emperor's Children (as much as Bile likes to pretend he's not related to the Legion anymore he collects them regardless) that I kept playing with the faction but couldn't quite nail something I was happy with until this box came out.

Edited March 1 by BitsHammer

[01RTB01]

3 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Noise Marines always interested me, but the Bile trilogy really gave me such a great insight into the Emperor's Children (as much as Bile likes to pretend he's not related to the Legion anymore he collects them regardless) that I kept playing with the faction but couldn't quite nail something I was happy with until this box came out.

 

The Bile trilogy is a great read for sure. It's been really interesting how the fluff around different aspects has been developed.

[Blindhamster]

honestly its just dumb that the god codexes aren't setup like the loyalist ones - supplements.

[TheNicronomicon]

5 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

honestly its just dumb that the god codexes aren't setup like the loyalist ones - supplements.

I can sort of see it--half of them hate (not like, Yankees-Red Sox hate, like MURDER hate) the other half, so maybe it's awkward to stick them in a book...but then again they did just that with Slaves to Darkness/The Lost & the Damned. Maybe it's due to the fractious nature of Chaos or something...but when you have so many overlapping data sheets it does seem crazy to do it this way instead of treating them like branches off the same trunk.

[BitsHammer]

10 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

honestly its just dumb that the god codexes aren't setup like the loyalist ones - supplements.

My best guess is that they want all of the different aspects to be their own unique things for two reasons:

1. Sales tracking - there has been a lot of evidence that GW is trying separate things into increasingly small piles so they can track sales and by making Chaos as many small separate piles as possible. This means the less shared between factions the better for them.
2. Balance - The studio has been pushing harder and harder into supporting balanced tournament play, and one of the best ways to do that is to ensure that we don't see unintended combos by letting someone have access to everything that is in their super faction.

Honestly if Marines were getting their Primaris update today there is a solid chance that GW would have more cleanly divided chapters up and removed as much overlap as possible between the armies.

[Marshal Loss]

Two sets paid for and secured, best of luck to everybody else buying a box!

[01RTB01]

2 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

Two sets paid for and secured, best of luck to everybody else buying a box!

 

Have you pondered the tormentor/ infractor builds? I'm thinking 20 of each at the moment with the infractors possibly doubling as late heresy vets.

[Marshal Loss]

6 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Have you pondered the tormentor/ infractor builds? I'm thinking 20 of each at the moment with the infractors possibly doubling as late heresy vets.

 

I'm doing something similar - current plan is 20 Infractors, 10 Tormentors, and 10x Tormentor/Infractor worth of bits to start incorporating into late heresy EC units. I'll pick up the combat patrol when that's released as well which will give me some spare on the side

[Rain]

29 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

honestly its just dumb that the god codexes aren't setup like the loyalist ones - supplements.

This would need to remove so many units as to effectively make the Cult Legions their own armies anyway.

 

To keep things fluffy, a World Eaters supplement would need to remove Legionaries, lock Chosen to pistols and CCWs only while adding rules to make them “Chosen Berzerkers”, remove Sorcerers, remove Havocs (or maybe lock them to Heavy Bolters and Chaincannons), remove Obliterators, and remove Apostles. I’m probably forgetting something.

 

Cult Legions are not just military organizations, they are religious cults partially lacking in free will. I hated the period of soup Chaos when playing a fluffy army meant self imposed handicaps on an already mediocre list. I’ll happily shelve my Predator and Helbrute if it means I can play World Eaters and not Red Chaos Marines.

 

 

[HeadlessCross]

16 minutes ago, Rain said:

This would need to remove so many units as to effectively make the Cult Legions their own armies anyway.

 

To keep things fluffy, a World Eaters supplement would need to remove Legionaries,

Why?

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Why?

Because the lore for the Cult Legions is that they are made up of only the most devoted forms of their respective troops. All WE are Berzerkers of various kinds, all Thousand Sons are Rubrics or Sorcs, etc. units that don’t fall into that are not of the Cult Legions. There are no Berzerker Obliterators. There are no Berzerker Apostles or Sorcerers. They don’t belong in World Eaters. Similar logic for other Cults, though the specific exclusions vary.

This is a major part of flavor for Chaos, and what separates Chaos Legions from the “subfactions” of many other factions. That said, people can still just use Codex: CSM to play Red Chaos Marines, or Pink Chaos Marines, or whatever. All GW is doing is giving fans of specific Cult Legions the ability to play a fluffy and themed Cult Legion force without self imposed limitations that were not considered when balancing the army.

 

Finally, yes, units like Helbrutes and Predators really should be universal, though I’d rather lose them and have proper themed Cult armies than go back to bland Chaos Soup.

[01RTB01]

36 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

 

I'm doing something similar - current plan is 20 Infractors, 10 Tormentors, and 10x Tormentor/Infractor worth of bits to start incorporating into late heresy EC units. I'll pick up the combat patrol when that's released as well which will give me some spare on the side

When I grab the combat patrol I'd considered doing some as seekers.

 

Should have lots of bits to mod some old metal raptors for eidolon's command squad alongside a jetbike command squad. Lots of delicious possibilities!

[Corswain]

4 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Have you pondered the tormentor/ infractor builds? I'm thinking 20 of each at the moment with the infractors possibly doubling as late heresy vets.

Been thinking Siege of Terra themed force.

The YouTube video where they've done the metallic purple is pushing me even closer.....

[Mogger351]

7 hours ago, Plaguecaster said:

How anyone can defend the chaos legions being made unable to take large amounts of chaos marine units is laughable.

 

Ah yes  a chaos marine sub factions must lose basically half their options including predators, helbrutes and whole lot of other stuff that makes them chaos marines in order to make them a sub factions  yet loyalist special chapters  get to keep everything  normal loyalists do well as have complete access to their unique chapter units,

 

oh just play them as normal CSM ah yes so to continue to play your original army you now must have to buy multiple codex books just to use your army and even then can never use everything in same army again 

 

 

Have you considered that maybe the problem in this post is how the loyalist chapters are handled instead?

[OpossumStrong]

It's up, got one box, and for some reason the ENG version is all the way down in the list. 

[TheHaplessHeretic]

Damn those boxes went nearly as fast as the Krieg box did (from Element I mean).

[BitsHammer]

So Art of War apparently discussed points changes and the EC subreddit cataloged them:

Quote

MFM Points Update (Taken from Art of War's latest video)

Chaos Land Raider: 240 > 240

Chaos Rhino: 75 > 80

Chaos Spawn: 70 > 80

Chaos Terminators: 175 > 170

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh: 195 > 195

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh with Wings: 195 > 180

Flawless Blades: 130 > 110

Fulgrim: 385 > 385

Heldrake: 195 > 195

Infractors: 5 models = 95 > 85  
Infractors: 10 models = 190 > 160

Lord Exultant: 85 > 80

Lord Kakophonist: 70 > 60

Lucius the Eternal: 140 > 140

Maulerfiend: 140 > 130

Noise Marines: 135 > 135

Sorcerer: 70 > 60

Tormentors: 5 models = 95 > 85  
Tormentors: 10 models = 190 > 170

  

LEGIONS OF EXCESS:  
(Seekers weren't mentioned)

Daemonettes: 120 > 90

Fiends: 3 models = 130 > 95  
Fiends: 6 models = 260 > 190

Keeper of Secrets: 300 > 280

Shalaxi Helbane: 390 > 380

  

ENHANCEMENTS:

  

Carnival of Excess:  
Dark Blessings: 15 > 10

Empyric Suffusion: 10 > 15

Possessed Blade: 25 > 25

Warp Walker: 30 > 30

Coterie of the Conceited:  
Pledge of Dark Glory: 30 > 25

Pledge of Eternal Servitude: 15 > 25

Pledge of Mortal Pain: 15 > 15

Pledge of Unholy Fortune: 25 > 20

Mercurial Host:  
Intoxicating Musk: 25 > 20

Loathsome Dexterity: 10 > 10

Steeped in Suffering: 20 > 20

Tactical Perfection: 15 > 15

Peerless Bladesman:  
Blinding Speed: 35 > 25

Distortion: 25 > 25

Faultless Opportunist: 10 > 15

Rise to the Challenge: 30 > 30

Rapid Eviceration:  
Accomplished Tactictian: 35 > 35

Heretek Adept: 30 > 35

Spearhead Strikers 20 > 20

Sublime Perfection: 25 > 25

Slaanesh's Chosen:  
Eager to Prove: 10 > 15

Proud to Vainglorious: 20 > 20

Repulsed by Weakness: 25 > 25

Slayer of Champions: 15 > 15

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmperorsChildren/s/zLeLZA4Y73