EC Rumours

[Dark Shepherd]

I love that idea

[LSM]

23 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

...And Angel Exterminatus is the 6th grader, it isn't that recent an example.

 

My point was that you can't just shred decades and expect it to vanish from people's minds. The reverence and rosey perspective some show for outdated material like RT and 3rd is indicative of that (or the actively poor education regarding the middle ages that still pervades that makes the blood of any historian worth their salt's blood boil due to the 19th centuries needless roman fetishization). 

 

Lucius needs a good update to function but he is ultimately probably the most flander-y of the iconic Cult Marines.

 

You just can't put him next to the likes of Khârn, Ahriman and (Mortarion forgive me) even Typhus and pretend one codex change is going to erase the fact that he just doesn't stack up.

 

And he by extension reflects poorly on the EC as a whole.

 

Eidolon at least has some regality, skill and nuance to him despite being insufferable and awful by design. He also embodies every aspect of the legion far better.

 

If the most we can say about Lucius is that the reinclusion of a particular fetish is the most we can do with his character... we honestly deserve to be the faction whose identity is limited to being the 80s and kind of awful stereotypes....

 

On Angel Exterminatus (2012) being not a recent example: if we're looking at the post-Heresy Emperor's Children (and the Third was the Legion which over and over again has been portrayed as the one that fell the furthest and the hardest), there's just not a whole lot out there.

 

Like, there's Lucius: The Faultless Blade (and its associated short stories) in ~2017, which... is some fun-enough pulp. It has a (truly) excellent supporting cast, but seems to not really have a story to tell other than "he fights some stuff". Oh, and Fabius (in Commorragh) hooks up his Combat Drug rig, meaning that it likely is taking place sometime in ~M36/37, I guess? And the book forgets his armour being the equivalent to a Doom Siren. Or was planning on building up to that in a sequel, maybe? There was that short story setting up a Lucius vs Bjorn the Fell-Handed smackdown that never came to fruition... hell, is that where we left off with Lucius in 40k? Picking fights with the Space Wolves in order to get Bjorn to give him a match?

 

It also describes his armour as purple, despite it always having been painted black - including on the book's cover. And (it's been a minute since I've read it), but if I recall correctly Lucius starts that book as an amorphous blob on the floor of his room. Like, he has to physically pull himself back into a humanoid shape when his ship's captain calls his attention to something potentially exciting happening (chasing down a World Eater ship). I don't know, I'm rambling. But he does tend to still be a sadomasochist. Like, pulling a couple quotes from In Wolves' Clothing:

 

“Hrothgir leapt up and smashed his maul down into the traitor’s chest. His quarry howled in joyful pain, the contorting faces that covered his blasphemous armour moaning in concert with their gaoler.”

 

“Lucius gasped as the blood splashed over his face. The first bloodshed upon his return to the living always delivered the highest ecstasy, and he shuddered as he drank the sensation in. He almost didn’t see the roaring Space Wolf rushing him, drunkenly swaying aside as it skidded past him.”

 

The point is, there's not a lot of lore in general. As noted, the 4th edition Lucius codex stuff is reprinted from 3rd. The 2012 codex makes some minor changes (IMO, changes that lead to your dislike of him), and then that's repeated in the 2017 codex, and reworded (but fundamentally the same) in the 2022 codex. So... 2012 is pretty current.

 

Maybe it's because I'm invested in the character, but I don't see how he's more "flanderised" than Khârn, or the other Cult Champions. In fact, if one chooses not to portray his Armour of Shrieking Souls as it was originally presented, he starts to tumble a bit too far away from his Cult for my tastes. Khârn is a berzerker, completely lost (in 40k) to his rage and bloodlust. Ahriman is a mighty sorcerer, who screwed things up royally but still has never lost hope that he can fix/change things. Typhus is walking pestilence in TDA, who dragged his entire Legion down into the depths of death's despair (though he lacks the self-loathing that makes Mortarion the most beloved of Nurgle). Lucius is an arrogant swordsman who preys upon the pride of others, sadomasochisticly revelling in the agonising ecstasy of combat. 

 

And don't get me wrong: I love Eidolon. An incredibly prideful Lord Commander - his screw up at Murder boils down to him wanting to get things done before the Luna Wolves arrive to help - who is amongst the first of the Noise Marines. Visually he's quite cool - the undead-head with too-wide mouth, bejeweled eyes, neon armour that's sickening to look at (or chem-washed pink, melted and deformed, depending on the source). And story wise, so great: a crazy cat lady, trying desperately to reform the Legion into the disciplined, highly tuned fighting force that it used to be and can never be again. Demanding authoritarianism from an entire Legion of Space Marines devoted to individually indulging in one's personal desires and enacting one's personal will, without restraint.

 

Let's be honest: Eidolon says he wants to see the Third risen from the ashes, but what he wants to be is in charge of that. If Slaanesh offered him to reforge the Third, at the expense of his existence, Eidolon would say no. And anyway, they've already been reborn, into perfect hedonism. Eidolon stinks of the Emperor, demanding self control and service to another. He is free to pursue that goal - his perfect command - just as every member of the Emperor's Children is free to pursue their perfection, in the worship of Slaanesh.

 

//

 

I'm not trying to present the 2002/2007 iteration as strictly better. I'm not trying to hold it reverently, or look upon it as perfection in rose. But neither do I think it should be ignored.

 

You ventured that you were giving a hot take when you said you wanted to see Eidolon replace Lucius as the Cult Champion. I can tell you, that take isn't hot. In fact, I think if you canvassed the fandom, it's the more common desire.

 

And people's problems with Lucius (that I've read) are as you state: integral to the character is that he is The Eternal, that he is attired in the screaming faces of everyone who has ever killed him. And... if the character's core is that he's a "perfect swordsman", then he's a joke. Because - to most people's conception - being killed doesn't seem very perfect. 

 

So I bring up his history, not to aggrandise his origins, but to explain. What happened? Why is there this disconnect? How do we solve it. We could not solve it, we could dump him and promote Eidolon. But there's an easy fix. He was "the ultimate sadomasochist", then he was changed into "the perfect swordsman". Just make him "the perfect sadomasochistic swordsman". Now he makes sense.

 

//

 

There's also the consideration that... The Emperor's Children are insane. They pursue perfection, but... "perfection" is in the eye of the beholder. 

 

*APPLAUSE* 

Dan: "Why hello there. How would you like... to be more perfect?"

Gilda: "More perfect? Boy, how!"

"Were you aware that the average person blinks fifteen times every minute? For upwards of four hundred THOUSAND microseconds EACH TIME?"

"What, no, but that means -"

"Correct: you spend nearly ten percent of your waking life with your eyes closed. Think about how much of this universe's splendor you're missing."

"Oh no, what do I do?"

"With the Emperor's Children's patented eye-lid removal surgery, you can guarantee that you'll never miss another moment."

"Eye-lid removal surgery? But don't my eyeballs need to be moist?"

"That's what the snake tongue is for."

"You're going to give me a snake tongue?"

"Hahaha, silly sausage. No, we're going to surgically remove your tongue, and replace it with a snake. The snake will then moisten your eyeballs for you! And if you act now, we'll also replace the snake's venom with our proprietary MDMA solution, ensuring that the next time you face the corpse-emperor's lapdogs both you and your opponent can have one heck of a time. How does that sound?"

"It sounds like... perfection."

"Hahahaha."

"Hahahaha."

*APPLAUSE* 

 

Lucius could be written as the perfect swordsman, upon whom no one can land a blow. That'd fit many sane people's definition of perfection. But living for ten millennia, never even getting hit? That sounds boring, and how can anything that's boring be perfect? No - the truly perfect fight is where someone takes their happy dagger and in you finds a sheath. Where you end panting, laughing, opened gashes spurting, you and your partner having exchanged so much with each other, having come together again and again in blow after ecstatic blow. Ending in the greatest sensation - the perfect moment - a little death. 

 

Lucius is the best. Those who are actually good enough to hang - well, Lucius will never forget them; they'll always be a part of him.

 

Edited October 17 by LSM

[ThePenitentOne]

Kudos to both @LSM and @StrangerOrders - your debate about the merits of Lucius vs. Eidolon was very educational for me. Great reading!

 

@Nephaston for my EC (MY Dudes!) I burrowed from Frank Herbert: in Dune, there is an art known as Semuta- a combined effect of drugs and music (specifically, atonal music). By strict definition, it is also possible to describe the drug as Semuta, but its full effect is only achieved in the presence of the atonal stimulus.

 

Essentially, the drug and the music are indivisible, as the Semuta effect is only created in the presence of both.

 

So for me, Noise Marines are also addicted to combat drugs which interact with Noise Marine technology to create a Semuta effect. This is how my Cult corrupts- the drug can be administered via needle weapons upon those the cult wishes to recruit, and then they can be exposed to the music via Sonic Weapons... And BOOM, addiction to the Semuta effect carries them to Slaanesh where their corruption becomes complete, and thus irreversible.

 

Perhaps the six man squad, when it comes, will lend itself to my conception of those affected by the Semuta effect, while the 10 man units are primarily concerned with the Sonic component.

[DeadFingers]

I've been bitten bad by the Emperor's Children bug, and while I was sifting through my image folders for inspiration to start coming up with thematic concepts and colour schemes, I had myself one (1) thought. This release should, supposedly, be happening rather close in time to the Eldar release, and that got me thinking. Last I remember, the whole Ynnari plotline came to a screeching halt when the last Cronesword was taken by Shalaxi and placed in the Palace of Slaanesh.

 

...what if Fulgrim takes it?

 

I know he has his whole "Blades of the Phoenician" deal, but a Slaanesh-corrupted Cronesword would be one hell of an addition to his collection (and model). And yes, I realize that by putting the sword on a model, that makes the Ynnari's quest and narrative virtually impossible to complete, but isn't that pretty much true for the major goals of every faction? And we all know they're never offing Slaanesh anyway, specially now.

Edited October 19 by DeadFingers

[LSM]

A reminder that Eidolon: The Auric Hammer (Marc Collins) has released in hardcover. (I generally wait for the paperbacks, but will be interested in hearing peoples' reviews.)

 

In the meantime, I've been reading The Path of Heaven (Chris Wraight, 2016), where Eidolon takes on a primary role. A couple excerpts that I liked and felt like sharing. (Ellipses where I've condensed things, italics per the source.)

 

//

 

“Eidolon watched the ships burn and die, though not with the eyes he had once owned. He saw the world in richer colours now, and savoured its agony through a more delicate sensibility...

“Eidolon could feel the terror coming from that ship. He could smell the raw fear bleeding out from it, sweating from the pores of the gun-crew menials and the mortal bridge officers as they did their duty. He mentally placed himself in their position, under those collapsed decks, crushed and maimed, the air escaping through a lattice of shell-ripped gashes.

“I wish it were me, he thought. I wish all these things were mine.”

“All around him, his brothers... wore the same armour – what would have once been Mark IV plate, limned with Legion gold, but which now defied all description. Their gorgets and upper torsos were grotesquely large, linked by snaking cables to amplifier clusters lodged amid overlapping sheets of richly decorated ceramite plate...

“The sonic cults... had now spread throughout the entire Legion, growing in popularity as their ruinous gifts became more clearly apparent. Eidolon himself, who had embraced the mutations more completely than any other since his resurrection, bore a thunder hammer in his heavy gauntlets...

“We lose troops here, my commander...

“...you omit the crucial point... That we live for this.”

-The Path of Heaven, pg 71-72, 74

 

//

 

“Sensation.

“Sensation...

“The pain never left. It ramped up, it became excruciating, so much so that his screams were real screams let fly from shredded lips and birthed in bloody vocal cords...

“...Every sweep of the thunder hammer... it all redounded into the melange of raw experience.

“And he wanted more.

“More.

“...This was the reward. The many thousand agonies of his new existence... Fulgrim had been no fool. He had been neither weak nor deluded. He had seen it before any of them had – the horizon of experience, extending far beyond what the lies of Unity had prepared them for. This was what humanity had been created to unlock – to remake itself, to grow, to take up the mantle of something better. If the darker fates were cruel, they were also alters of creation, turning receptacles of poor flesh into vehicles for new and dynamic deities.

“We are not degrading, Eidolon thought... This is the perfection we were always denied.

“He lurched onwards, grinning wide, overcome with the tide of emotion. Once unleashed, myriad sensory possibilities engulfed almost all else, and he had to fight to retain his grasp on the here and now.”

-The Path of Heaven, pg 96-97

 

 

Edited October 23 by LSM

[HeadlessCross]

On 10/15/2024 at 9:12 PM, Nephaston said:

I agree on the rules front, but in the model department it was an absolute win., even if they managed to miss some obvious ones like Red Butchers or Rubric Dreadnoughts.

I'm all for specific models being made, I'm just against them getting bespoke rules for the sake of rules since that interferes with game design heavily. 

Edited October 23 by HeadlessCross
Double Post

[TheMawr]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:55 PM, DeadFingers said:

I've been bitten bad by the Emperor's Children bug, and while I was sifting through my image folders for inspiration to start coming up with thematic concepts and colour schemes, I had myself one (1) thought. This release should, supposedly, be happening rather close in time to the Eldar release, and that got me thinking. Last I remember, the whole Ynnari plotline came to a screeching halt when the last Cronesword was taken by Shalaxi and placed in the Palace of Slaanesh.

 

...what if Fulgrim takes it?

 

I know he has his whole "Blades of the Phoenician" deal, but a Slaanesh-corrupted Cronesword would be one hell of an addition to his collection (and model). And yes, I realize that by putting the sword on a model, that makes the Ynnari's quest and narrative virtually impossible to complete, but isn't that pretty much true for the major goals of every faction? And we all know they're never offing Slaanesh anyway, specially now.

 

 

I always expected the cronesword to end up in his hand, and actually still do. ( And indeed, I do not think there is as much finality to the Ynnari side with that as people think, I Could go deeper on this but it would be too offtopic.) I did not expect any development there to happen without the emperors children in the picture anyway.

 

In one of his earlier EC rumor streams Valrak said there is something he heard that would have major lore implications. Now it wouldnt be out of character if he is talking about Lucius having a different base size :p but if the "major" is literal I can see it being that; Fulgrim having the fifth cronesword on the model, other thoughts were a return of Doomrider ( but this one is void with the release lineup now rumored ) or maybe just maybe Fabius bile joining the lineup for the codex, but I think that would be something GW would have dealt with in the CSM codex and subsequent temporary emperors children index like they did with Khârn before, I also dont think this particular source gives him rule rumors anyway.

 

 

[Elazar The Glorified]

5 hours ago, TheMawr said:

...maybe just maybe Fabius bile joining the lineup for the codex, but I think that would be something GW would have dealt with in the CSM codex and subsequent temporary emperors children index like they did with Khârn before, I also dont think this particular source gives him rule rumors anyway.

 

 

 

Well in the Index you can take him so if we remain Codex Supplement Emperor's Children, that is easily retained, or perhaps a detachment for that lets you use him. That we have Legionaries rumoured does make me wonder if we'll be a Codex Supplement. Something I'm fully comfortable with as it seems mad to be me that we'd have a Codex but Blood Angels etc with either an equal or greater number of unique units wouldn't. Would also align with all of the recent Black Library depictions of Emperor's Children through the Fabius Bile trilogy, Lucius: The Faultless Blade and Renegades: Lord of Excess where the Noise Marines are depicted as separate to the main body of the legion - elite, pilgrims in service to Slaanesh above the warbands they join even.

 

Really want to just see the cover at this point to at least settle that bit!

Edited October 23 by Elazar The Glorified

[LSM]

2 hours ago, Elazar The Glorified said:

 

Well in the Index you can take [Bile] so if we remain Codex Supplement Emperor's Children, that is easily retained, or perhaps a detachment for that lets you use him...

 

The same rules allow Emperor's Children armies to (currently) take Abaddon, Huron Blackheart, Haarken Worldclaimer, and Cypher. They're pretty slapdash.

 

//

 

Realising The Emperor's Children as a Codex Supplement would be, I think, a mistake.

 

And yes, the current Black Library fiction portrays The Emperor's Children as a Slaaneshi CSM army, with a unique* take on Noise Marines. Like they've been on the tabletop since 4th edition. And so to continue them in such a fashion would be as a Codex Supplement.

 

But I'd personally hope for them to be a proper Cult Legion, akin to the other three Cult Legions.

 

*Lofty, zoned-out monks, who solely use Sonic Weapons and need to be enticed to battle, as opposed to tweeking, pleasure-addicted madmen who like Sonic Weapons (but also like Combat Knives, Chainswords, Bolters, Plasma, etc) and desperately pursue battle as an aphrodisiac. Who Codexes variously describe as "flamboyant warriors", "howling lunatics", and "maniac thrill-seekers".

 

Edited October 23 by LSM

[StrangerOrders]

50 minutes ago, LSM said:

 

The same rules allow Emperor's Children armies to (currently) take Abaddon, Huron Blackheart, Haarken Worldclaimer, and Cypher. They're pretty slapdash.

 

//

 

Realising The Emperor's Children as a Codex Supplement would be, I think, a mistake.

 

And yes, the current Black Library fiction portrays The Emperor's Children as a Slaaneshi CSM army, with a unique* take on Noise Marines. Like they've been on the tabletop since 4th edition. And so to continue them in such a fashion would be as a Codex Supplement.

 

But I'd personally hope for them to be a proper Cult Legion, akin to the other three Cult Legions.

 

*Lofty, zoned-out monks, who solely use Sonic Weapons and need to be enticed to battle, as opposed to tweeking, pleasure-addicted madmen who like Sonic Weapons (but also like Combat Knives, Chainswords, Bolters, Plasma, etc) and desperately pursue battle as an aphrodisiac. Who Codexes variously describe as "flamboyant warriors", "howling lunatics", and "maniac thrill-seekers".

 

I mean, lofty stoned-out-of-their-minds monks that passively warp the world around them is pretty unique. Especially because Burnout is a very important facet of excess and perfectionism.

 

The last is not particularly EC, I'd argue you can't throw a rock in 40k without hitting a flamboyent, howling maniac. 

 

The idea that Noise Marines have sunk so far they hit a weird sort of Chaos enlightenment is oddly interesting as a take. I could be wrong but it is reminding me of an irl tradition where overindulging circles around but even if it isn't, it would be interesting.

 

On a sidenote, one quirk I hope they keep is that higher ranks of Noise Marines keep their weird regeneration (that just makes them noisier). Even just a 6+ FNP would be fluffy.

 

Their relationship with time-space is also a fascinating aspect in the books at least and steers really well into the innate contradiction of Slaanesh and how linear time (doesn't) work in the Warp.

 

That and because singing reality into being appeals to the Tolkien fan in me.

Edited October 23 by StrangerOrders

[DeadFingers]

54 minutes ago, LSM said:

Realising The Emperor's Children as a Codex Supplement would be, I think, a mistake.

It wouldn't just be a mistake, it would be an absolute disservice to the Legion and its collectors and players to be treated like that after the other three got separate Codices.

 

As would be a disservice to Bile to include him in the EC Codex as he has very much made his position clear and folding him back into the Legion would need a seriously hefty excuse to even begin to make it work, and nothing they can cook would be good enough to not be considered a betrayal to Bile's character.

 

Not that they're going to do that, since Bile is very clearly in the CSM Codex that already excludes Lucius and the Noise Marines, and going through the trouble of taking those out and having to provide a temporary patch for a year only for that to be an incomplete change would be a baffling move.

Edited October 23 by DeadFingers

[StrangerOrders]

33 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

It wouldn't just be a mistake, it would be an absolute disservice to the Legion and its collectors and players to be treated like that after the other three got separate Codices.

 

As would be a disservice to Bile to include him in the EC Codex as he has very much made his position clear and folding him back into the Legion would need a seriously hefty excuse to even begin to make it work, and nothing they can cook would be good enough to not be considered a betrayal to Bile's character.

 

Not that they're going to do that, since Bile is very clearly in the CSM Codex that already excludes Lucius and the Noise Marines, and going through the trouble of taking those out and having to provide a temporary patch for a year only for that to be an incomplete change would be a baffling move.

Worth noting as well the... unfortunate complexity issues playing out in the loyalist codex with its supplements kind of show how poorly this would go. (Their divergent chapter ranges are actual more or less in line with two of the current god legions).

 

You'd end up in a situation where anyone not rolling a God-Legion would be shooting themselves in the foot as GW would be balancing everything in CSM around whatever cult-skew list currently maximizes the numbers.

 

It would be a lie to pretend that it wouldn't be fluffy, CSM are quite literally so violently against standardization that they can't get drinking water right. 

 

But inviting the actual chaos that is the SM-Divergent Supplement situation in seems like a very evil cookie jar to open. Even if it would be funny to see the violent uptick in Iron Warrior Noise Marines and Plague Night Lords.

Edited October 23 by StrangerOrders

[Lay]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

But I'd personally hope for them to be a proper Cult Legion, akin to the other three Cult Legions.

 

*Lofty, zoned-out monks, who solely use Sonic Weapons and need to be enticed to battle, as opposed to tweeking, pleasure-addicted madmen who like Sonic Weapons (but also like Combat Knives, Chainswords, Bolters, Plasma, etc) and desperately pursue battle as an aphrodisiac. Who Codexes variously describe as "flamboyant warriors", "howling lunatics", and "maniac thrill-seekers".

 

Whatever the bulk of the lore in the EC codex will be, GW will probably leave room for different interpretations. The other Cult Legion Codexes, gave different spins on the legions their own color schemes: "here's the white and blue, disciplined World Eaters warband", "here's the greenish-yellow, zombie-herding Death Guard warband", "here's the yellow-greenish, chemical warfare one" etc.

[Elazar The Glorified]

56 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

It wouldn't just be a mistake, it would be an absolute disservice to the Legion and its collectors and players to be treated like that after the other three got separate Codices.

 

As would be a disservice to Bile to include him in the EC Codex as he has very much made his position clear and folding him back into the Legion would need a seriously hefty excuse to even begin to make it work, and nothing they can cook would be good enough to not be considered a betrayal to Bile's character.

 

Not that they're going to do that, since Bile is very clearly in the CSM Codex that already excludes Lucius and the Noise Marines, and going through the trouble of taking those out and having to provide a temporary patch for a year only for that to be an incomplete change would be a baffling move.

 

Bile wouldn't need to be removed from the Chaos Marines Codex but with vague spoilers on the Fabius Bile Black Library series...

 

Spoiler

They gave him a pretty compelling reason why he'd also fight alongside his former brothers too should daddy make a return, as he now has an oath made in blood to keep

 

Also, worth pointing out no Cult Legion has a Codex in 10th so it's still all to play for. 

 

Also, re: Noise Marines, if the Valrak rumours are true it seems unlikely that Noise Marines would be anything other than Noise Marines. No point having a kit for EC Legionaries but then having Chainsword Bolt Pistol as an option for Noisy Bois still. I'm pleased all my BP & CCW Noise Marines / Legionaries will potentially have a role to play still with that separation of duties!

 

Also, unlikely Noise Marines won't be able to get the Battleline keyword so you can still go fully into that but if you want to represent the Emperor's Children as they have been portrayed in the background far more often in a more modern period, you could lean into the Legionary side of things. Feels like we might be getting a much better deal than any of the other Cult Legions on honouring both the new and old approach if true and if that's at the cost of having the word Supplement on the cover of my book I'll take it as I'll have both sexy new minis and actual proper rules for my Legion that I haven't been able to enjoy together for many, many editions now!

Edited October 23 by Elazar The Glorified

[TheMawr]

Doubt they will be a supplement if the other 3 arent ( they could always turn it around though, after all, we dont have the other 3 yet either, but I still doubt it.)

 

I also think people read too much into "legionaires" and "noise marines" in the rumor being the names.. I think the rumor source gave descriptions.. not names ( otherwise surely there would have been a video to speculate on the names of the other units.) the legionaires just describing the noise marines (datasheets/models) we have had for 5 (?) editions.. in other words the upgradesprue one. and the "noise marines" harkening back to the crazier unit from I think 3rd and or 4th edition.

 

One of the two will be called noise marines obviously, and it wouldnt suprise me if its actually the current "legionaires" squad retaining the name in the end. Not because I have an opinion of it or because of logical things in BL and HH.. but because its GW, and they dont take any of those 3 things in consideration.

 

Fabius bile Im curious how it ends up, he is the original EC variant of Ahriman, Khârn and Typhus afaik. Being more outcasty never was a problem ( Eldrad/Ulthwé, Yriel/Iyanden.. Cypher/Fallen... GW loves subfaction characters that are actually not that close with their subfaction.)

However imho, and for my own taste, he really needs access to a creative selection of mortals and mutants. And in recent years finally I could build something around him ( even though I still have his old mini only.)

[StrangerOrders]

An interesting facet that I don't think we have discussed yet is size for the Noise Marines.

 

If their kit comes in 6, I was thinking they are likely on the bigger base and that 6 is the full unit rather than the starting size.

 

Folks think that would just mean it will be a case of the base being somewhat bigger than the model like we see with some elite units or do folks think this implies a more 'swollen' look for the new Noise Marines?

 

Bringing this up because the thread got me relistening to the Fabius books and I can't help but notice that some of the Noise Marines are spoken of as being physically quite big.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, DeadFingers said:

It wouldn't just be a mistake, it would be an absolute disservice to the Legion and its collectors and players to be treated like that after the other three got separate Codices.

I hate to tell you this, but, if you were actually collecting any of the Cult Legions, you end up not being able to use several models in your army once you got your extra super duper special codex. It's a disservice to actually GET one of those absolute low effort codices and EC players should count themselves lucky they still get to use all their models for the time being. 

 

Yeah Noise Marines don't have a dedicated kit. And?

[LSM]

2 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

The idea that Noise Marines have sunk so far they hit a weird sort of Chaos enlightenment is oddly interesting as a take.

 

Agreed. I love the idea of a subset of Noise Marines that have managed to achieve some sort of nirvana, in tune with Slaanesh, taking on a zen-stoner bent. That's really cool.

 

I just wish Josh Reynolds hadn't named them the Noise Marines. Noise Marine Kakophoni, Noise Marine Choirmasters, Noise Marine Chordlords. Any other silly thing.

 

Leaving the twitchy-maniac punk/glam rock/heavy metal battle-addicts, whose armour keeps the beat with their every slice and shot.

 

(And if that's what "EC Legionaries" are, then cool.)

[StrangerOrders]

24 minutes ago, LSM said:

 

Agreed. I love the idea of a subset of Noise Marines that have managed to achieve some sort of nirvana, in tune with Slaanesh, taking on a zen-stoner bent. That's really cool.

 

I just wish Josh Reynolds hadn't named them the Noise Marines. Noise Marine Kakophoni, Noise Marine Choirmasters, Noise Marine Chordlords. Any other silly thing.

 

Leaving the twitchy-maniac punk/glam rock/heavy metal battle-addicts, whose armour keeps the beat with their every slice and shot.

 

(And if that's what "EC Legionaries" are, then cool.)

Definitely, while we might disagree about the level of Noise across the range, it would be cool if the kept a sort of divergent structure sense to the EC.

 

Which is to say, a facet of the Legion thats just chasing the thrill that tops out at whatever they name their lord.

 

And another facet that goes full noise and ends up at the stoner-monk clarity that is more in line with Reynold's Noise Marines.

 

Extra points if down the line we get some sort of Zen Master Dovahkiin Noise Marinw instead of a Sorceror. Just a stripped down old man Noise Marine that can warp reality with a basic-looking guitar. Love the idea of a battery of Noise Marines pounding a battleline then the old man rips a Land Raider in half with a half-hearted riff.

 

And I do not just say that because I love the 'frail old man is actually the single scariest thing on your team' archetype.

 

...it would also be the most accurate depiction of the average 80's metal head's current age lol.

Edited October 23 by StrangerOrders

[LSM]

2 hours ago, TheMawr said:

...the legionaires just describing the noise marines (datasheets/models) we have had for 5 (?) editions.. in other words the upgradesprue one. and the "noise marines" harkening back to the crazier unit from I think 3rd and or 4th edition...

 

Fabius bile Im curious how it ends up, he is the original EC variant of Ahriman, Khârn and Typhus afaik. Being more outcasty never was a problem ( Eldrad/Ulthwé, Yriel/Iyanden.. Cypher/Fallen... GW loves subfaction characters that are actually not that close with their subfaction.)...

 

I agree that @Chapter Master Valrak probably got a description, and not actual names. (And even then, seemingly a quite rough description if he could amend that the elite trio might be the Cataphractii Terminators he had been hearing about.)

 

Couple notes about the model range's history. EC are kind of hilariously underserved:

• '88 a handful of Slaanesh Renegades (which look like Chaos Renegades, with the occasional Slaanesh rune carved into the armour and the odd crab claw/Daemonette head/Fiend head).
• '91 Emperor's Children Marine (which later sources will call a Noise Marine, but I believe released before the Noise Marine, and is heavily based on Jes Goodwin's '90 sketch of an Emperor's Children Slaanesh Renegade).
• '91 Noise Marine (a single sculpt to tie in to D-Rok's album Oblivion, featuring the song Noise Marines).
• '92 Epic Fulgrim.
• '95 Epic Slaanesh Daemon Knights/Scout Titans.
• '96 Noise Marines (three body sculpts, two heads, one Doom Siren head, one backpack, one Sonic Blaster, one Blastmaster, one Power Fist, one Chainsword)
• '99 Doomrider (though lorefully he might not be Emperor's Children)
• '02 Emperor's Children Upgrades (one Sonic Blaster, one Blastmaster, one Doom Siren backpack, one Power Sword, one Torso, three heads) to go with the 2002 plastic CSMs (box of eight with six Bolters, four Chainswords, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, Champion doodads. It was impossible not to build at least one Noise Marine with a Bolter unless you special ordered bits). Still in use.
• '02 Emperor's Children Lord.
• '03 Emperor's Children Dreadnought (Forge World).
• '06 Lucius the Eternal.
• '18 Noise Marine (commemorative resculpt of the '91 model).

Bile was '96, where he was specifically Unmarked. The only Slaaneshi character was N'Kari (who is noted to have fought against the Emperor on Horus' battlebarge, though his origins are a nod to WHFB). Bile stuck around for the '99 Codex (which introduced Doomrider as a Slaaneshi Daemon Prince), and was changed to be Undivided (technically I think you could go Unmarked with your generic characters, but the Mark of Chaos Undivided was free, so it was kind of the default). The 2001 Index Astartes article introduced Eidolon to the lore. The 2002 Codex saw Doomrider take off into the sunset, and introduced lore and rules (but no model) for Lucius - Bile was present, and as he bore the Mark of Chaos Undivided was barred from Emperor's Children armies. And he's been hanging out ever since, Undivided.

 

//

 

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Yeah Noise Marines don't have a dedicated kit. And?

 

I mean... for people that like Noise Marines, it would be nice to have Noise Marines.

 

I posit that the entire reason that Emperor's Children are not perceived as a Cult Legion (to the extent that the other three are) entirely boils down to this fact. How can they be "the Noise Marine army" if it's been over twenty years since you could buy (full sculpt) Noise Marines? 

 

It isn't surprising that people don't associate Noise Marines with the Emperor's Children when for an entire player's lifetime the official Noise Marine models have been Noise Marine Sonic Blaster/arms/shoulder pads (single sculpt) attached to not-Noise Marines.

 

//

 

44 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

...it would also be the most accurate depiction of the average 80's metal head's current age lol.

 

Not a whole lot of folks seem to agree with me, but I'd love a Fulgrim that looks like Dee Snider.

 

Edited October 23 by LSM

[TheMawr]

I found the image I was referencing earlier in regards to the possible exalted unit (3 models), however when delving deeper I discovered it is fanart after all.

 

 

Some of the others I thought where similar are either much less lithe/bestial ( like adrian smiths noise marine artwork.), art of Daemon princes or fantasy illustrations.

I know Ive seen more but I think they might all be any of that.

Unless someone knows of ancient 40k Slaanesh or Emperors children miniatures that might have given the inspiration of a lot of fanart following that motive, and thus might have inspired the designers as well, I think changes are slim it will be something like that. ( very sadly for me, luckily for the average fan here who usually prefer less corruption.)

 

 

Now that I can insert images again, I know this next picture is official.. and Im the first to always point out that newer Art doesnt equal miniatures, but I dont know in what publication it was or the context :

 

While I dont expect there will be anything looking like that as this 40k artist is often very liberal with his interpretation of stuff... thing is there is often "stuff" to liberally interpret from, hence why Im curious what the context of the image was for.

[DeadFingers]

3 hours ago, TheMawr said:

however when delving deeper I discovered it is fanart after all.

It is a nice design though, might not be that far from what they end up looking like, depending on the direction GW take. At the very least it looks like it might be a relatively easy conversion using Slaangors and some leftover bits from the upcoming kits.

[Lay]

7 hours ago, TheMawr said:

While I dont expect there will be anything looking like that as this 40k artist is often very liberal with his interpretation of stuff... thing is there is often "stuff" to liberally interpret from, hence why Im curious what the context of the image was for.

 

It's from Codex Daemons, showing slaaneshi Traitor Guard. The story is about a planet's population trying to model itself after the Ultramarines, after being saved by them, only to take it too far in the name of perfection.

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Persiphon

[LSM]

On 10/23/2024 at 9:36 AM, Elazar The Glorified said:

 

Bile wouldn't need to be removed from the Chaos Marines Codex but with vague spoilers on the Fabius Bile Black Library series...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

They gave him a pretty compelling reason why he'd also fight alongside his former brothers too should daddy make a return, as he now has an oath made in blood to keep

 

 

Something I just stumbled upon was a reddit post from years back quoting Reynold's own thoughts on the end of Manflayer:

 

It's intentionally ambiguous.

Is Fabius a god, or a slave? Or maybe his soul is a poisoned chalice, so to speak - something the Ruinous Powers desire, but will choke them in the end. Fabius didn't trade his soul for power, but to protect his creations from the one thing that would have irredeemably stolen their potential - not the drukhari, but the gods. He gave himself to the gods, and bought his creations time and freedom from corrupting influences, including himself. Maybe they'll waste that time, maybe they won't. And Fabius...well. How long do you think he'll play the good servant? Maybe forever, maybe his story is done.

Or maybe, just maybe, he used his long sleep to think of a way out of this final trap. Could that be why his clones were running around looking for the Emperor's DNA in the Blood Angel books? We'll probably never know.

As to how it furthers the Aeldari cause- well, it doesn't. It furthers Cegorach's agenda, not theirs, and even the Harlequins don't know what his goals are. They just have to trust that what he's after will help the Aeldari survive, in the end. If that means a few million die, well, that's the cost of survival.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:45 PM, StrangerOrders said:

 

There is not a good reason for WE to not have Jump Units, nor for TS to not have a Heavy Weapon Unit. Those are obvious things for Berserkers or Rubrics. 

I still don't understand why Deathguard haven't received heavy-support-squads redone as some sort of unique havoc to them. I mean, that's their whole shtick, no? Slow advancement while firing relentlessly. As you say, these are obvious things. 

In 30k, Death Guard armies typically (and lore wise) have SO many heavy-support squads. This would be an ideal transition to 40k, with those same heavy weapons coming back, but in newer virulent form. I mean, one of the most iconic pieces of art for Deathguard/Plague Marines is the lovingly rendered piece by Adrian Smith, the subject of which is wielding a... you guessed it, heavy bolter.



that said, I'm also of the opinion that removing the 'generic' things from the cult Legions/warbands is/was a bad move. To use a term that's come up a lot in this thread, removing assault marines, havocs, bikers, etc - from the cult Legions has flanderised them completely. 
 

On 10/16/2024 at 11:27 AM, StrangerOrders said:

The irony of Eidolon who is both the first Noise Marine and also everything cool/interesting about the EC's other facets in (imo) a much more competent execution than Lucius, being absent from this release is irksome is another matter entirely.

 

 

Slight correction, it wasn't Eidolon who was the first noise marine. That honor goes to Marius Vairosean. He who picks up the oddly constructed instrument in the Maraviglia, to continue the wonderful notes he was hearing, becoming the first of the Kakophoni, predecessors to the noise marines. 





Everyone also seems to forget about Julius Kaesoron. He's a daemon prince now, and active. Also part of the Phoenix Conclave, a conglomerate of leaders of various Emperors' Children, including Eidolon, Fabius, Lucius, etc.