EC Rumours

[Macidious]

6 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Is Fabius Bile going to be part of the Emperor's Children range as well?

Probably not seeing as he just got his detachment back in csm

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

22 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

So y'know how a modern submarine's SONAR produces a big enough soundwave to literally liquefy the organs of anything or anyone close enough to it?

 

The Sonic weapons do that, pretty much.

 

Well, obviously. But that's not ever been the entire picture with sonic weaponry that noise marines use.

 

For example, I vaguely remembered from 2nd edition that noise marines caused any psykers within range problems.... and when I dig out eg my ancient copy of Codex Army Lists I see the following: 

 

This behaviour seems peculiar to Noise Marines, since the only other entry in the list who gets the same rule is the Noise Marine Champion armed with a Sonic Blaster:

 

Aside from that, various pictures of sonic weaponry firing show usually some kind of neon glow around the speaker/muzzle indicating that what is being fired is not purely audio, ie not only vibrations transmitted through the atmosphere.

Sometimes the sonic guns are depicted as, basically, big amps that the the marines hold and point at the enemy. other times as guitars that are 'played' while firing. 

Doom Sirens, as far as I'm aware it's probably changed too, just amplify the users own voice to the level of a sonic weapon.

This varies tremendously between different artists and video games:

 

The new codex has them emitting some kind of green beam, even:

 

Really, they look more like they're firing an energy beam don't you think?

 

So I think it's fair to say it's pretty inconsistent as well as there being more to it than just basic sonic vibrations.

 

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

And just to satisfy my own curiousity I managed to track down a pdf of the 2nd Ed Chaos Codex which indicates the psyker problems are caused by some kind of psychic emanation from the noise Marines themselves:

 

 

So, are Noise Marines all Psykers? Or do the weapons have a psychic aspect to them?

Never really defined.

[01RTB01]

46 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Is Fabius Bile going to be part of the Emperor's Children range as well?

Although not strictly EC, he should be in the book IMO.

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Is Fabius Bile going to be part of the Emperor's Children range as well?

 

One would expect not.

 

His lore has always been about him not following the EC into their worship of Slaanesh, and especially now that Daemons are being folded in, Codex: Emperor's Children is very much "the Slaanesh worshippers' book".

 

Rules wise, when there have been hard rules for the Emperor's Children he's usually been unable to be fielded by them (due to having the Chaos Undivided or Creations of Bile keywords instead of Slaanesh or Emperor's Children). He can be taken in the Index, but so can Abaddon and Huron Blackheart...

 

Most telling though is that the Grotmas detachment for CSM was a Creations of Bile force, seeming to cement his place in that book.

 

Edit: missed the new page, already answered.

 

//

 

@EmprahsStrongestGuardsman The Noise Marine's inherent Psychic Cacophony lasted from their invention in '91 until the '99 codex. Then the 2002 codex had Warp Scream, which was sort of similar (rending reality with noise, but instead of destabilising psykers it reduced enemy Initiative). The 2007 book then flipped the -1 Initiative for enemies (from Warp Scream) into +1 Initiative, and changed the fluff to be about the Noise Marines' heightened senses allowing them to react faster. Which in gameplay terms is a wash, but I think might be the inflection point for the change of everyone marked by Slaanesh being Noise Marines. (ie. having the Mark of Slaanesh from '91-2006 involved being loud, which thereafter was downplayed, and then in 2016 Noise Marines were shuffled off into their own sub-cult.)

 

For reference, the original '91 (White Dwarf 144) lore and rules:

Edited Monday at 04:58 PM by LSM

[Orange Knight]

41 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Although not strictly EC, he should be in the book IMO.

 

That's what I'm thinking. These divergent Legion books need as many datasheets as they can get, especially a cool unique character...

[Indy Techwisp]

10 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

That's what I'm thinking. These divergent Legion books need as many datasheets as they can get, especially a cool unique character...

 

It would go against Fabius Bile as a character tho.

His entire deal is that he left the EC to go off and perfect the Astartes Form, so putting him back in with the EC seems counterproductive.

Also as others have mentioned Fabius' faction is what the CSM Grotmas detachment was based off.

[ZeroWolf]

Also, he wasn't in the EC index list where he was in codex CSM which obviously lost all Emperor's Children stuff. I'm fairly confident that Bile isn't going to be in the list. He'd essentially legionless at this point.

[Brother Paint]

Wondering if Creations of Bile can be used in allied units as I’ve some thoughts on using a spare unit of the basic  troops and some other bits or will there be restrictions ( given the spiders background for miffing the Deathguard at one point ) 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

It would go against Fabius Bile as a character tho.

His entire deal is that he left the EC to go off and perfect the Astartes Form, so putting him back in with the EC seems counterproductive.

Also as others have mentioned Fabius' faction is what the CSM Grotmas detachment was based off.

The Bile trilogy would hard disagree.

 

Although he left the EC as a legion, he still uses a lot of groups from the legion, calls in aspects of different millenials. It's not as if he's totally segregated from, and never mixes with EC groups ever again. There's noise marines within his groups too. Honestly, there isn't a genuine reason why he shouldn't be in the book.

 

We also don't know the circumstances of Fulgrim's return so there's potential there. It's not as if they haven't met in recent years.

[HeadlessCross]

19 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

The Bile trilogy would hard disagree.

 

Although he left the EC as a legion, he still uses a lot of groups from the legion,

And that can be shown via the Noise Marines you can already take. 

[Marshal Loss]

Two small points I'd note regarding the Fabius Bile series:

• One thing I often see gets missed online in the usual echo chambers is that it doesn't take place in 40k, I think it starts at around M34/M35 (Lugganath takes place in mid-M34). Even taking into account warp time shenanigans that's potentially a significant period of time between the events of the series and 40k, something that often gets swept under the rug when people online are going on about e.g. 'Eidolon reuniting the legion' and so on like it's definitely present tense (when we know from IA that he gets up to a lot of different things over the millennia).
• The Fabius series ends with him becoming the monster we know from 40k, embracing his 'role' after rejecting opportunity after opportunity to reunite with or attempt to rebuild the Emperor's Children.

It's a little funny because I really want his influence on full display across the legion, and having some Apothecary/Fleshcrafter type characters and associated monstrosities would be near the top of my wish list for any subsequent additions, but from Fabius Bile's inception he was always a character situated outside of and above the fray of inter-legion politics and that's where he should remain.

 

You could make a good argument for Fabius having the ability to be taken in an Emperor's Children force/every CSM faction including the cult legions as an ally given he's basically an apothecary for hire, but he should definitely stay based in the CSM book. I'd rather the EC book specifically get the Von Kalda style characters of the galaxy, imitations of Bile rather than the man himself.

Edited Monday at 08:50 PM by Marshal Loss
Typo

[Macidious]

24 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

Two small points I'd note regarding the Fabius Bile series:

• One I often see gets missed online in the usual echo chambers is that it doesn't take place in 30k, I think it starts at around M34/M35 (Lugganath takes place in mid-M34). Even taking into account warp time shenanigans that's potentially a significant period of time between the events of the series and 40k, something that often gets swept under the rug when people online are going on about e.g. 'Eidolon reuniting the legion' and so on like it's definitely present tense (when we know from IA that he gets up to a lot of different things over the millennia).
• The Fabius series ends with him becoming the monster we know from 40k, embracing his 'role' after rejecting opportunity after opportunity to reunite with or attempt to rebuild the Emperor's Children.

It's a little funny because I really want his influence on full display across the legion, and having some Apothecary/Fleshcrafter type characters and associated monstrosities would be near the top of my wish list for any subsequent additions, but from Fabius Bile's inception he was always a character situated outside of and above the fray of inter-legion politics and that's where he should remain.

 

You could make a good argument for Fabius having the ability to be taken in an Emperor's Children force/every CSM faction including the cult legions as an ally given he's basically an apothecary for hire, but he should definitely stay based in the CSM book. I'd rather the EC book specifically get the Von Kalda style characters of the galaxy, imitations of Bile rather than the man himself.

I would love to see him be a part of the ec again, and I want to read on how each character like bile and Lucius react to fulgrim returning, and especially in the future if they bring eidolon back how he reacts see as he was the anchor for the legion for so long, will he betray Abaddon and fall in line or will there be an ec civil war

[Scribe]

7 minutes ago, Macidious said:

I would love to see him be a part of the ec again, and I want to read on how each character like bile and Lucius react to fulgrim returning, and especially in the future if they bring eidolon back how he reacts see as he was the anchor for the legion for so long, will he betray Abaddon and fall in line or will there be an ec civil war

 

Considering the events of the Bile series, I don't think he would care about Fulgrim at all.

 

Bile may be my minor sin, as a way to get some of these models.

 

Khorne forgive me...

Edited Monday at 07:58 PM by Scribe

[ZeroWolf]

Also forgive me if I'm wrong but Fabius is essentially chaos undivided now isn't he, he's not dedicated to Slannesh the same way as Lucius for example

[Jukkiz]

16 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Also forgive me if I'm wrong but Fabius is essentially chaos undivided now isn't he, he's not dedicated to Slannesh the same way as Lucius for example

Fabius still doesn´t believe in gods, only himself unlocking humanitys true potential.

Even his own creations of "new men" asked him that if he loves them like father would love their children. It left him stunned in silence and unable to comprehend that question for awhile.

[Macidious]

8 minutes ago, Jukkiz said:

Fabius still doesn´t believe in gods, only himself unlocking humanitys true potential.

Even his own creations of "new men" asked him that if he loves them like father would love their children. It left him stunned in silence and unable to comprehend that question for awhile.

Well maybe in new lore he’s found ways to work with the legion again who knows , may not be a devoted lap dog but someone that maybe interested in pushing the marines to the next level 

[Special Officer Doofy]

56 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

You could make a good argument for Fabius having the ability to be taken in an Emperor's Children force/every CSM faction including the cult legions as an ally given he's basically an apothecary for hire

 

I doubt Nurgle / Death Guard would work with him after he stole the Ark Cornucontagious and started the war of the spider. It's a fun story, Fabius Bile is such a turd. As a life long Death Guard and Typhus fan, I still secretly rooted for Bile the whole time.

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Macidious said:

Well maybe in new lore he’s found ways to work with the legion again who knows , may not be a devoted lap dog but someone that maybe interested in pushing the marines to the next level 

 

Spoiler

By the end, he made a bargain to save his children. The Bile series is a story of the love of a Father.

 

[Hathor42]

I needs rules leaks! Come on leakers get in there lol. 

Those old rogue trader rules for the noise marines are funny.  The master blasts a vehicle so hard he reaches completion and falls asleep lol. 

[Macidious]

1 minute ago, Hathor42 said:

I needs rules leaks! Come on leakers get in there lol. 

Those old rogue trader rules for the noise marines are funny.  The master blasts a vehicle so hard he reaches completion and falls asleep lol. 

I am also craving rules leaks too haha 

[Marshal Loss]

22 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

I doubt Nurgle / Death Guard would work with him after he stole the Ark Cornucontagious and started the war of the spider. It's a fun story, Fabius Bile is such a turd. As a life long Death Guard and Typhus fan, I still secretly rooted for Bile the whole time.

 

Will admit upfront that I'm not familiar with that particular story, but the Chaos Legions have backstabbed and betrayed each other countless times over their ten thousand years of exile, and Bile's unique value to these various squabbling factions - noting that the traitor legions aren't single homogeneous entities - is what has kept him alive and in the game for so long. What's one more betrayal to heap on that pile? The moment the DG/a faction of the DG need his services, they'll be back as unhappy and temporary allies.

[Macidious]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

 

Will admit upfront that I'm not familiar with that particular story, but the Chaos Legions have backstabbed and betrayed each other countless times over their ten thousand years of exile, and Bile's unique value to these various squabbling factions - noting that the traitor legions aren't single homogeneous entities - is what has kept him alive and in the game for so long. What's one more betrayal to heap on that pile? The moment the DG/a faction of the DG need his services, they'll be back as unhappy and temporary allies.

Biles loyalty is realistically to himself and the highest bidder whoever can give him the most value, so maybe fulgrim has something to offer him for his loyalty at this time who knows 

[Special Officer Doofy]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

 

Will admit upfront that I'm not familiar with that particular story, but the Chaos Legions have backstabbed and betrayed each other countless times over their ten thousand years of exile, and Bile's unique value to these various squabbling factions - noting that the traitor legions aren't single homogeneous entities - is what has kept him alive and in the game for so long. What's one more betrayal to heap on that pile? The moment the DG/a faction of the DG need his services, they'll be back as unhappy and temporary allies.

 

The war of the spider is from psychic awakening. Bile stole from Nurgle and Typhus pursued him to get it back. Bile met with The Shriven, who were being pursued by custodes and sisters of silence. Long story short, Bile manipulated all sides into fighting each other while getting most of his own men killed, but he got some custodes and sister of silence test subjects out of it. DG is largely still in tact as a legion as shown during the plague wars. If Nurgle and Typhus don't like you, I doubt the smaller DG warbands would hangout with you. I personally can't see Bile working with the Death Guard, but I can definetly see him working for undivided or EC.

[ZeroWolf]

To settle the Fabius Bile question, is there any datasheet currently that appears in two books (asking this as he's currently in the CSM book and if he were to appear in the EC book then he'd be in two tomes at the same time)