EC Rumours

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

12 hours ago, Schurge said:

I hope the EC release pleases the long time EC players and preserves the use of as much of their collections as possible.

Buddy, they've been redoing the entire space marine range, but worse, since 2017. The whole point was that long-time fans weren't buying enough marines. 

Corporate GW absolutely will erase things arbitrarily to make you buy more plastic. I hope this isn't the case, but they'll figure out a way. Either invalidating a portion (if not all) of existing collections by removing the unit from rules (and pretending said unit(s) never existed in rules, ^{fingers in the ears lalalal I can't hear you),} bumping up the required number of models for a unit (oh you had 30 of said model? The unit cap size is now doubled, with a new rule that optimizes the unit when at unit cap), or - and this one is just as grimy as the others...  They'll introduce something new to the range, with rules that are incredibly janky or broken - that you'll feel obligated to buy boxes of said new thing to feel like you're on an even playing ground. I'm not even talking about tournament meta-chasing.

 

[Indy Techwisp]

58 minutes ago, LSM said:

Anecdote on lore changes.

 

In their Index Astartes article (2001) it says that "Dreadnoughts are not employed by the White Scars". Sure enough, they don't have Dreadnoughts available in their Army List (they do have a whole bunch of rules around bikes and infantry being mounted in transports).

 

As I've mentioned, I've been reading The Path of Heaven (2016) and one of the characters in it - a White Scar - is a self-loathing mecha-monstrosity of a marine that would make an Iron Hand swoon. He is that way - they went to such lengths to rebuild him "humanoidly" - because, as stated in the book... the White Scars don't use Dreadnoughts. If he was in any other legion, he would have been interred in a Dreadnought.

 

Come to The Horus Heresy Book Eight: Malevolence (2019), and we are told that this is false claim by outsiders. The Fifth does use Dreadnoughts, afterall. Codex: Supplement: White Scars (2019) agrees, and lists Dreadnoughts amongst all but the tenth company.

 

Things are, and then all of a sudden they aren't.

AFAIAA, the current Canon status of White Scars Dreadnoughts is:

Yes, they have them.

But they primarily Guard the Chapter's Geneseed stores and only take to the field of Battle when their Chogorian need for violence at an increased speed becomes too much to bear and they demand the White Scars Techmarines turn their chassis sensitivity up really high so they can actually feel the wind rushing past their metal body as they charge into battle.

[Schurge]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:01 AM, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said:

Buddy, they've been redoing the entire space marine range, but worse, since 2017. The whole point was that long-time fans weren't buying enough marines. 

Corporate GW absolutely will erase things arbitrarily to make you buy more plastic. I hope this isn't the case, but they'll figure out a way. Either invalidating a portion (if not all) of existing collections by removing the unit from rules (and pretending said unit(s) never existed in rules, ^{fingers in the ears lalalal I can't hear you),} bumping up the required number of models for a unit (oh you had 30 of said model? The unit cap size is now doubled, with a new rule that optimizes the unit when at unit cap), or - and this one is just as grimy as the others...  They'll introduce something new to the range, with rules that are incredibly janky or broken - that you'll feel obligated to buy boxes of said new thing to feel like you're on an even playing ground. I'm not even talking about tournament meta-chasing.

 

When making that post I thought about adding a mini-rant about how the World Eaters Codex killed World Eaters for me. I played World Eaters almost exclusively for over a decade and I didn't even bother buying the World Eaters Codex. It invalidated a good chunk of my collection and tried to sell me models I didn't want. It also made us less interesting to play, not more. It was lazy.

 

It did sell me on new (to me) models though, and made me less attached to 'supporting' GeeDubs with my purchases. I switched to Grey Knights. Thank God we still have classic Grey Knights holding the line as versatile and gothic knights in space. Right? Right...? Our range refresh is going to just be upscales and a redone baby carrier right? Right...?

 

I know what GW's strategy has been lately... but a fella' can hope.

[ZeroWolf]

Rumours are that it's just one of those things for Grey Knights...and probably not the one you want  Refresh for them will be 11th edition most likely but on the plus side, only have five years to potentially wait! 

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Just a heads up, got some whispers about a brand new EC boxset:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Craig]

I'd just be happy to see EC back on the CSM decal sheet. 

[DeadFingers]

If anything they might get their own decal sheet. Although seeing as the first three bits they've shown are pauldrons with sculpted details and iconography, chances are they'll be a Death Guard kinda deal and not get one.

[Fire Golem]

9 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

If anything they might get their own decal sheet. Although seeing as the first three bits they've shown are pauldrons with sculpted details and iconography, chances are they'll be a Death Guard kinda deal and not get one.

Im pretty sure all the World Eater pads are sculpted and they still got one, a pretty great one too IMO. Hopefully EC follow suit. 

[DeadFingers]

1 hour ago, Fire Golem said:

Im pretty sure all the World Eater pads are sculpted and they still got one, a pretty great one too IMO. Hopefully EC follow suit. 

Fair point, guess we'll have to see. In any case chances are they don't return to the CSM decal sheet, they either get their own or get nothing.

[HeadlessCross]

On 10/29/2024 at 4:28 PM, Schurge said:

 

When making that post I thought about adding a mini-rant about how the World Eaters Codex killed World Eaters for me. I played World Eaters almost exclusively for over a decade and I didn't even bother buying the World Eaters Codex. It invalidated a good chunk of my collection and tried to sell me models I didn't want. It also made us less interesting to play, not more. It was lazy.

 

It did sell me on new (to me) models though, and made me less attached to 'supporting' GeeDubs with my purchases. I switched to Grey Knights. Thank God we still have classic Grey Knights holding the line as versatile and gothic knights in space. Right? Right...? Our range refresh is going to just be upscales and a redone baby carrier right? Right...?

 

I know what GW's strategy has been lately... but a fella' can hope.

The fun one for me with the World Eaters codex, outside the fact it invalidated several armies, was the unnecessary addition of Eightbound (which are just Possessed when you think about it) and EXALTED Eightbound (which is arguably the same exact unit), and SOMEHOW the World Eaters can get a bunch of these dudes made and miss regular ol' Possessed, and SOMEHOW be organized enough to do that but operating a Jump Pack is just too much. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

World Eaters also come with a really nice decal sheet, that would be very useful if they had access to a few more generic units (Chosen, Raptors, etc.).

[Indy Techwisp]

10 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The fun one for me with the World Eaters codex, outside the fact it invalidated several armies, was the unnecessary addition of Eightbound (which are just Possessed when you think about it) and EXALTED Eightbound (which is arguably the same exact unit), and SOMEHOW the World Eaters can get a bunch of these dudes made and miss regular ol' Possessed, and SOMEHOW be organized enough to do that but operating a Jump Pack is just too much. 

 

DG lost Basic Possessed this edition, so I assume there's an Internal Mandate to make the Cult Legions have their own unique take on Possessed to differentiate them (so expect DG to get theirs this edition I guess.)

 

At least WE's Unique Possessed is still a unit tho, TSons' Possessed equivalent are characters

[Nephaston]

4 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

At least WE's Unique Possessed is still a unit tho, TSons' Possessed equivalent are characters

I'd disagree with the notion that exalted sorcerers are TS possessed because they are characters. Sure they come in sets of three, but I'd pin that down to 7th edition weirdness and emblematic of just how awkward the TS roster is.

 

I do agree however that it all seems to boil down to the cult legions slowly becoming CSM+1, with TS and DG showing Legionnaires+1 and Terminators+1, WE showing Legionnaires+1 and Possessed+1, and, if the EC rumours are accurate, EC having Legionnaires+1, Chosen+1, and either Terminators or Possessed+1 (or some secret third thing, seeing as DG also doubled up on terminators)

I just hope in a handful of years we can look upon some well stacked unit offerings for all of that chaos goodness.

[Ahzek451]

2 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

I'd disagree with the notion that exalted sorcerers are TS possessed because they are characters. Sure they come in sets of three, but I'd pin that down to 7th edition weirdness and emblematic of just how awkward the TS roster is.

 

I do agree however that it all seems to boil down to the cult legions slowly becoming CSM+1, with TS and DG showing Legionnaires+1 and Terminators+1, WE showing Legionnaires+1 and Possessed+1, and, if the EC rumours are accurate, EC having Legionnaires+1, Chosen+1, and either Terminators or Possessed+1 (or some secret third thing, seeing as DG also doubled up on terminators)

I just hope in a handful of years we can look upon some well stacked unit offerings for all of that chaos goodness.

I think the intent with the god legion armies is to have few shareables(like certain vehicles) but the final product would feature each one having a set of toys unique to that legion. Some things are just staples for everyone (like terminator armour, but this can heavily vary between legions like deathshroud). For example:  I wouldn't expect all 4 god legions to have access to bikes, or raptors, each of these would have a unique variant likely seen in WE or EC. GW would either pick a unit from the heresy that that particular legion favored and heavily twist it, or make up something new entirely. 

[Indy Techwisp]

18 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

For example:  I wouldn't expect all 4 god legions to have access to bikes, or raptors, each of these would have a unique variant likely seen in WE or EC. GW would either pick a unit from the heresy that that particular legion favored and heavily twist it, or make up something new entirely. 

 

TSons at least have a few pretty good candidates left for "Steal from HH" units, but I've not looked too closely at the other Cult Legion's offerings in that regard.

 

With that said, EC do have a number of good options they could use, tho it'd be a toss-up as to if they call on those now.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I'd have thought GW would want the cult legions to be entirely unique at some point and it's simply a matter of time. 

 

If Thousand Sons get a Psyker Dreadnought I could easily see the Helbrute being removed. 

 

I wonder if Slaangors will be included in the EC codex? The Thousand Sons have kept Tzaangors all this time and it would bulk out the codex a bit (I assuming that it is going to be a World Eaters sized release rather than Death Guard sized release). 

[Nephaston]

TS still have that rumour of Automata in their fight against Vashtorr as well. So i'd argue differentiation is still on the table, even if some staples are shared in concept. If the trio of Elites in EC for example are possessed they can differ from regular possessed and eightbound by perhaps being multi-armed mini-fulgrims with lots of attacks or equipped with lashes for some movement mechanics.

[LSM]

One thing that pleased me a touch - the WarCom newsletter referred to the EC Shoulder Pads article thusly:

 

Quote

What Was That?!

 

Whatever is was, it was LOUD. Are you tempted to glimpse into the future of the 41st Millennium and see if you can work out what it might mean?

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:38 AM by LSM

[Brother Kraskor]

I would like to think someone at GW will appreciate the duelling/personal ambition side of EC as well as the noise marine aspect. Some sword dudes would be nice, but knowing GW I'm not expecting it and will be happy with anything I can get!

[Jukkiz]

just give us some actual "perfection/grimdark" marines. Their beauty (in their mind) would work well with more... absurd takes

[Doctor Perils]

Tbh I'm hoping the "EC Legionaries" are the current noise marines toting gun-blasters mixed in with bolters and chainswords, and the new Noise Marines take the classic guitars, bases and drums, like an armoured rock band; that way everyone can have the Noise Marine aesthetic they like

[grailkeeper]

I was going to joke that the next line is going to be drugs that make models look like Emperor's Children when you are tripping. 

 

But then I remembered that GW would actually make less money if it turned to selling crack instead of plastic crack.

[killersquid]

for those of us at work, and can't watch the video, does anyone have a summery?

[Fire Golem]

4 hours ago, Doctor Perils said:

Tbh I'm hoping the "EC Legionaries" are the current noise marines toting gun-blasters mixed in with bolters and chainswords, and the new Noise Marines take the classic guitars, bases and drums, like an armoured rock band; that way everyone can have the Noise Marine aesthetic they like

Equally feels like that will annoy everyone, no? At least sticking to one style completely works for one group. Mixing it in the army means that one of the units is a style you don’t like, whichever one you prefer. 

[TheMawr]

I think the analysis might be overcomplicated, as said I think its this ;

 

 

Renegades/Legionaires and Noise marines being 2 different things isnt new, however in 3rd edition the concepts got "merged" basically going forward the legionaires where called noise marines with minimal access to a sober version of their main weapons. What have been Noise marines since then are the Emperors children legionaires ( miniaturewise speaking.) lore and rules are adapted to it, but with GW the visuals (miniatures) dictate direction.

 

I might be biased though as I hail from these old days and during 3rd edition left exactly because this kind of thing happening. However since the other releases are also descriptions, not unit names, there is a possibility it has been described by someone who had the above evolution in mind.

 

There is even a similar precedent; Necron wraiths, these got a massive change in 5th edition while keeping the name but later the original wraiths returned with a new name.

If these would have released at the same time and someone aware of the past would have described them without having access to the unit names it would be : Canoptek spidery constructs and wraiths, and something similar I think is possibly going on here.

 

Because the name Noise marines has been tied to the legionaires for most of the game's lifespan I can see them keeping the name..  honestly after eightbound I can even see it being something like Noise marines and Exalted noise marines.

 

ofcourse I dont assume Im right, but this is just my thought on it.