EC Rumours

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

They're not really cut off from sensation in dreads. No more than a marine in power or terminator armour.

They might be partially dismembered inside the sarcophagus but they're still hooked up to the sensory equipment of the dread, so they get to SEE, at least, the devastation that they're causing.

 

Plus, the Helbrutes look organic/daemonic/mutated. The guy inside has probably just merged entirely with the thing. He might feel stuff touching the armour of the dread as if it was his skin.

[Interrogator Stobz]

1 hour ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

Damn, that list of units (or lack of) makes the entire release a hard-pass for me.

You're certainly not the only one, several mates have dropped their projects too.

 

I was going to get a WE army to go with/replace my OOP one, but they have too few units and too mamy exclusions of things already painted.

I was then thinking of an EC army, but they're in the same boat.

 

GW get a hard pass from my money for several more Editions... at this rate I'll die of old age before they get it right.

 

[StrangerOrders]

10 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

I think they may be more concerned with Fulgrim and other blenders incoming!

 

Also through strategic reserves makes it less likely. Orks have been running tankbustas in top level tournament lists and they're less survivable than noise marines. I think noise marines are going to be ok.

I think there is currently something of an element of panic and gloom that we need the full image to properly gauge (which is good in a selfish way, I keep hoping folks will turn off the scalpers from trying too hard).

 

We still don't know what Infractors/Tormerntors or Lords do, we don't know how the stats look on the import either. For all we know atm the EC Maulerfiend might be a threat to tanks.

 

Not saying it will be better per say but I think all we can say atm is that the melee sheets in front of us look very strong, the shooting ones more geared at dealing with chaff. 

 

I would be surprised if the remaining stuff persuaded me to think of EC as a shooting army though, I think there is clear language here for a melee army with shooting support. 

 

Its kind of funny though at the TS ended up the long ranged mono-god legion though. Its seems like the range preference chart goes TS > DG > EC > WE. 

 

Also, if we are putting bets down, I get the sense that the Lord is going to have something to do with Mortals. I don't know why but I am getting that vibe.

 

I also REALLY want to know how the troops do, I have this weird sense we are going to get alot of Infiltrator/Incursor comparions for some reason. Might be a mix of their lighter-looking armour, what we've heard and how many rules they have about closing distance idk.

Edited Tuesday at 06:24 PM by StrangerOrders

[Macidious]

Have we got images for , tormentors , infractors , lord exultant, and the generic demons and csm stuff yet??

IMG_1918.webp

Edited Tuesday at 06:29 PM by Macidious

[HeadlessCross]

6 minutes ago, Macidious said:

Have we got images for , tormentors , infractors , lord exultant, and the generic demons and csm stuff yet??

IMG_1918.webpUnavailable

No, those are the ones we really need to. 

 

Also the EC subreddit is legit insane. They're telling people it's fine to lose Predators and to use them as Rhinos and crap like that. 

[Manglarn]

I've been reading the leaks and I've noticed an odd strategems.

Peerles Bladesmen detachment: Cut down the weak

Target: 1 EC unit from your army (you can only target a Vehicle if it is a Walker)

 

Did they decide to remove the Helbrute after they wrote the rules or are they planning to add a Sonic dreadnought?

Or is it that we can take units from the CSM codex in some form?

[Mogger351]

29 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

No, those are the ones we really need to. 

 

Also the EC subreddit is legit insane. They're telling people it's fine to lose Predators and to use them as Rhinos and crap like that. 

They're insane in both ways, they were rampantly down voting and harassing anyone who didn't decry the rumours etc.

[Evil Eye]

So, no Predators, no Vindicators, no Hellbrutes, no mortals of any kind, no Raptors or bikers, seriously limited HQ choices...weak, GW. Very weak.

 

I don't know why I'm so disappointed, given GW's track record and that I'm pretty much only interested in modern 40K for the minis these days, but even so, that sucks.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, I really feel like Chaos should have just been one massive book that lets you field any traitor force you could possibly imagine. If each cult legion had been on par with the Death Guard release, an army unto itself filled with unique units, I could understand the separate Codices. As is, Death Guard feel like the only one that really justifies its own existence as a separate faction.

[HeadlessCross]

7 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

They're insane in both ways, they were rampantly down voting and harassing anyone who didn't decry the rumours etc.

I wasn't aware of that, as I didn't know that subreddit existed until it got linked the Comp one. I've made my voice known about issues with this release and they have a downvoting brigade on me LOL

 

It's one thing to downvote but I'm more annoyed they don't have a coherent argument WHY this is all a good thing. 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, my experience of Reddit is it's about as much fun as flossing your teeth with barbed wire. Anything that doesn't fall in line with the hivemind gets downvoted to oblivion or/and you get banned. Genuinely the worst place to talk about 40K on the internet IMO. In fact I'd say as sorry a state as modern /tg/ is in, it's still recommendable over Reddit.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

No Lord/Sorcerer in TA makes buisness sense for GW because they want people to be buying Lord Exulatant/Kakophinst/Lucius.

 

Reducing Daemon units makes sense because otherwise things would be very bloated very quickly. 

 

Inlcuding Maulerfiend but not Forgefiend is just stupid. Axing Predators is just stupid.

 

Axing Cultists and Helbrute only makes sense if there is replacements planned. Unfortunatly, as we've seen with TS, it could be 9 years before another unit arrives let alone a second wave.

 

 

[darkseren1ty]

53 minutes ago, Manglarn said:

I've been reading the leaks and I've noticed an odd strategems.

Peerles Bladesmen detachment: Cut down the weak

Target: 1 EC unit from your army (you can only target a Vehicle if it is a Walker)

 

Did they decide to remove the Helbrute after they wrote the rules or are they planning to add a Sonic dreadnought?

Or is it that we can take units from the CSM codex in some form?

Maulerfiend

[skylerboodie]

9 hours ago, Macidious said:

 

this feels so strange, no hellbrutes, no vindicators not predators , no forgefiends (but we get maulerfiends? , no terminator lord to lead terminators? 

Forgive my ignorance, but if Codex: Chaos Daemons as its own thing is anticipated to be over, does that mean we think all of the following are also no longer valid units in 40K (/ moved to Legends), in addition to the CSM losses for EC?

- INFERNAL ENRAPTURESS

- THE MASQUE OF SLAANESH

- SYLL’ESSKE

- CONTORTED EPITOME

- TORMENTBRINGER ON EXALTED SEEKER CHARIOT

- TRANCEWEAVER

- HELLFLAYER

- SEEKER CHARIOT

- EXALTED SEEKER CHARIOT

 

Or am I just getting confused.

[Scribe]

At least the models are nice? Man GW, look what you did to my boy...

 

 

 

[Rain]

46 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

At the risk of repeating myself, I really feel like Chaos should have just been one massive book that lets you field any traitor force you could possibly imagine. If each cult legion had been on par with the Death Guard release, an army unto itself filled with unique units, I could understand the separate Codices. As is, Death Guard feel like the only one that really justifies its own existence as a separate faction.

 

The 2nd Edition Chaos codex did this very well. The 3.5 Chaos codex did this well for the Traitor Legions, though it lacked mortals (other than Alpha Legion cultists) or pure demon lists. However, mostly mortal "Lost and the Damned" were playable through the Eye of Terror campaign list, which was a really fun, if somewhat weak (relative to just playing CSM) mishmash of mutants, heretics, and Chaos Space Marines. Unfortunately the GW of 2nd and 3rd edition is as dead and gone as the halcyon days of the Great Crusade. I still think that the 3.5 codex was the best Chaos codex that has ever been made, and possibly the best codex GW has ever put out, period, but it is what it is.

 

That said, I still think that people are being a little too down on this release. EC are getting some very good faction specific models, multiple Legion-specific detachments, and can finally be played as a highly elite combat army, which is a long missing element of Slaanesh. An army of arrogant duelists hopped up on combat drugs is a really cool concept to make into a playable force. There's a lot of flavor here, which was not the case for the tepid Chaos soup days of 4th - 6th until the Legions book came out in 7th.

[HeadlessCross]

9 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

The 2nd Edition Chaos codex did this very well. The 3.5 Chaos codex did this well for the Traitor Legions, though it lacked mortals (other than Alpha Legion cultists) or pure demon lists. However, mostly mortal "Lost and the Damned" were playable through the Eye of Terror campaign list, which was a really fun, if somewhat weak (relative to just playing CSM) mishmash of mutants, heretics, and Chaos Space Marines. Unfortunately the GW of 2nd and 3rd edition is as dead and gone as the halcyon days of the Great Crusade. I still think that the 3.5 codex was the best Chaos codex that has ever been made, and possibly the best codex GW has ever put out, period, but it is what it is.

 

That said, I still think that people are being a little too down on this release. EC are getting some very good faction specific models, multiple Legion-specific detachments, and can finally be played as a highly elite combat army, which is a long missing element of Slaanesh. An army of arrogant duelists hopped up on combat drugs is a really cool concept to make into a playable force. There's a lot of flavor here, which was not the case for the tepid Chaos soup days of 4th - 6th until the Legions book came out in 7th.

Yeah, it's new faction specific models at the cost of losing most vehicles and several infantry you might have already made. There's plenty reason to be down on this and GW needs to be let known they can't be doing this crap. 

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

Well, the basic EC marines are great, and the basic Lord. We've never really had those models, not since a LONG time ago. 

The noise marines are ok, though they look a bit like sonic havocs to me...

 

It's just, I converted a EC terminator lord and it's looking like I can't use him.

Plus, sonic terminators. And there are people who converted sonic vehicles, there was even a forgeworld sonic dreadnought back in the day.

 

So I think some of the disappointment stems from the fact that there could easily be more than basic infantry and Fulgrim. It's not like most of it couldn't be covered by just a few extra weapon options. 

[HeadlessCross]

8 minutes ago, EmprahsStrongestGuardsman said:

 

So I think some of the disappointment stems from the fact that there could easily be more than basic infantry and Fulgrim. It's not like most of it couldn't be covered by just a few extra weapon options. 

Nope. Y'all rewarded GW's "no kit and bitz = no rules" mindset, so this is what happens. That Deathwatch got as much as they did back in December is absolutely mind boggling and I already know GW is gonna try to claw that one back. 

[Evil Eye]

34 minutes ago, Rain said:

I still think that the 3.5 codex was the best Chaos codex that has ever been made, and possibly the best codex GW has ever put out, period, but it is what it is.

It's absolutely up there. 3.5 to the first half of 4th had some absolutely stellar books, and there's some seriously stiff competition (the 3E Ork book is absolutely fantastic, both 3E and 4E Tyranid books are excellent, and the Necron book has great rules and some viscerally chilling fluff), but 3.5 Chaos might just be the reigning champion. The sheer amount of customization in such a relatively small book combined with top-tier presentation is second to none.

 

I'd agree that the minis GW has put out for this release are spectacular (the basic Marines are a surprise favourite of mine), and as someone more likely to be running the 3.5E book with the 4E core rules it's not really any skin off my nose, but it does feel like a slap in the face to people still trying to persevere with 10th.

 

@HeadlessCross nobody here "rewarded" anything. I for one barely buy anything from GW anymore; 99% of my already-diminished 40K spending is second-hand. But there will always be a depressingly large cohort of whales willing to buy whatever GW spews out, regardless of quality. Trying to vote with your wallet or otherwise "legitimately" change GW's mind is pointless when GW already has their mosquito-proboscis buried deep in the bank accounts of so many thoughtless consumers. At this point, you have two options- just divorce GW from your hobbying entirely (play old or homebrew rulesets, buy secondhand minis or print your own) or else if you really are determined to get GW to stop making boneheaded decisions, you'll have to resort to more drastic methods that I can't really go into any detail on here, mainly because I'm not entirely sure what they'd actually be.

Edited Tuesday at 08:52 PM by Evil Eye
Ninja'd by HeadlessCross.

[Rain]

1 minute ago, HeadlessCross said:

Nope. Y'all rewarded GW's "no kit and bitz = no rules" mindset, so this is what happens. That Deathwatch got as much as they did back in December is absolutely mind boggling and I already know GW is gonna try to claw that one back. 

 

While I personally hate this approach, this is something that has been passed down on the game designers from on high for what GW perceives as protecting its IP. This is a decision made by their lawyers and MBA's, and there's no real way around it.

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

Well, Etsy got more from me by far this last year than any GW stuff, so I understand that sentiment.

[HeadlessCross]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

While I personally hate this approach, this is something that has been passed down on the game designers from on high for what GW perceives as protecting its IP. This is a decision made by their lawyers and MBA's, and there's no real way around it.

The real way around it was to not reward GW doing it to begin with, which you should've saw coming with how the 6th(7th?) edition Deathwatch codex was handled. Instead consumption continued and now GW thinks they can continue doing what they do. 

 

No real way around it? Not even close. 

[Evil Eye]

11 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

While I personally hate this approach, this is something that has been passed down on the game designers from on high for what GW perceives as protecting its IP. This is a decision made by their lawyers and MBA's, and there's no real way around it.

This is the issue. Short of someone decapitating GW's upper-management (METAPHORICALLY, not literally) the games designers are going to keep pushing this crap for the same reason they keep pushing the "models can only be used for one system" nonsense; the bean-counters in GW's very own Adeptus Administratum have decreed it. The Chapterhouse debacle put the fear of God into GW, even if they drove Chapterhouse to extinction in the process; there is no way GW will ever reverse this position unless the top brass are purged as part of a hostile takeover, which seems unlikely given their monetary success. Our only hope is that they make a blunder on par with 6th edition to the power of the AoS launch such that the shareholders abandon them entirely and they're forced to try and claw back community good will.

Edited Tuesday at 09:02 PM by Evil Eye
Expanding on point.

[Rain]

 

5 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The real way around it was to not reward GW doing it to begin with, which you should've saw coming with how the 6th(7th?) edition Deathwatch codex was handled. Instead consumption continued and now GW thinks they can continue doing what they do. 

 

No real way around it? Not even close. 

 

Okay, so stop buying GW product. Buy proxies, or 3D prints, or whatever. Have fun with that. It's not going to change GW's IP protection policies. But telling other players that GW's corporate decisions are the fault of those players is unproductive. Ultimately if you don't like the way that the game is heading, you can play older editions (many of which are great if you can find like minded people) or quit. I quit in 6th when they added allies because it ruined the game for me. I didn't get all dramatic about it, it wasn't me standing up to the man, I was just not enjoying the game anymore so I stopped playing it. Only came back around 9th because I found out that a good friend of mine dabbled in 40k.

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

Like I said, online sellers take care of most of what I need model-wise. So there are plenty of alternatives to nu-GW, both in terms of models and rules systems. 

I haven't played 40k since 4th-5th and there's not much there to lure me back as far as I can see.

 

I'd like to play a game of 4th with my 3.5 list. That'd be fun.