EC Rumours

[crimsondave]

57 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

To EC fans who are disappointed by missing options in this book, I would like to offer my humble apologies.

 

I stopped buying new rulebooks, I own a 3D printer and everything, and GW still has not changed completely. Don't they understand the rules? Anyway, I will do better.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

In all seriousness, people who are upset should just do what you did and find another rules set to use.  You and others have proven that a little initiative is all that’s required to find players willing to try something new.  It’s not like starting a whole new game .  It’s the same minis whether you’re using an older edition or one page rules or the like.  One page rules seems very easy to pick up.  I forget what it was but OPRs was like $5 or $10 and I downloaded everything they had.  The community will have rules generated for every new unit very quickly after a release.  Some people like 10th edition and I’m glad they do.  But if you hate it like I do, you can quit 10th without quitting 40K.  Play both if you like.

 

If you do this, you can enjoy all the brand new minis and be super excited about the awesome (and they look fantastic) EC and not worry about GWs pathetic and lazy rules writing.  Unless events have become a huge part of your life, I don’t see why one would subject themself to something that’s supposed to be fun that just gets them all worked up.

 

It’s not daunting.  Get on social media for your local community and just say “Anyone out there tired of 10th edition and want to play 40K with an older edition or an independent set of rules?  I already have the rules.  Message if you’re interested.”  If you don’t get a bite, post it again a week or two later.  For playing space, I bet if you show up at a FLGS with miniatures they sell to play a game I bet you no one will say a word about what rules you use.  
 

This hobby is fun and relaxing for me.  I just refuse to let something that’s fun and relaxing make me mad when my real world life does that more than enough already. I’m 46 years old.  Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

[Mogger351]

57 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

In all seriousness, people who are upset should just do what you did and find another rules set to use.  You and others have proven that a little initiative is all that’s required to find players willing to try something new.  It’s not like starting a whole new game .  It’s the same minis whether you’re using an older edition or one page rules or the like.  One page rules seems very easy to pick up.  I forget what it was but OPRs was like $5 or $10 and I downloaded everything they had.  The community will have rules generated for every new unit very quickly after a release.  Some people like 10th edition and I’m glad they do.  But if you hate it like I do, you can quit 10th without quitting 40K.  Play both if you like.

 

If you do this, you can enjoy all the brand new minis and be super excited about the awesome (and they look fantastic) EC and not worry about GWs pathetic and lazy rules writing.  Unless events have become a huge part of your life, I don’t see why one would subject themself to something that’s supposed to be fun that just gets them all worked up.

 

It’s not daunting.  Get on social media for your local community and just say “Anyone out there tired of 10th edition and want to play 40K with an older edition or an independent set of rules?  I already have the rules.  Message if you’re interested.”  If you don’t get a bite, post it again a week or two later.  For playing space, I bet if you show up at a FLGS with miniatures they sell to play a game I bet you no one will say a word about what rules you use.  
 

This hobby is fun and relaxing for me.  I just refuse to let something that’s fun and relaxing make me mad when my real world life does that more than enough already. I’m 46 years old.  Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

Even at a basic level, their chaos marines army still works exactly as it does now. It might not be what they set out to do, but it has all the units they want and they likely have the rules.

[Mogger351]

How wonderfully ambiguous:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

[Indy Techwisp]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

How wonderfully ambiguous:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

 

Seems rather clear cut to me tbh...

 

Also, that asterisk leads to this:

Also, there's this:

But I don't think that's the same wording as Deathwatch who very openly have retained legal use of their Index.

[jaxom]

2 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

How wonderfully ambiguous:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

TL;DR: The EC codex contains datasheets that you can use with the Csrnivsl of Excess detachment and those datasheets have a bespoke keyword, Legions of Excess (similar to Ynnari Dark Eldar). Those datasheets also are compatible with the Grotmas Slaanesh detachment. So if you buy EC codex, you have one detachment that can be up to half daemons (at full points for a given game size) and one detachment that can be all daemons. Each Cult codex will have the same thing going on. No indication of the availablility of all daemon pdf detachments usable with Cult codexes means there will be no daemon codex.

[Mogger351]

It sort of implies the daemons index is going though to my eyes? The fact that's "all the datasheets you'll need" and they call out the grotmas detachment, not the index.

[Lord Marshal]

I suspect we're going to have to lurk social media until somebody on there confirms in a reply to somebody directly asking them.

[jaxom]

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It sort of implies the daemons index is going though to my eyes? The fact that's "all the datasheets you'll need" and they call out the grotmas detachment, not the index.

I read it more literally: the EC codex has all the data sheets allowed for the 2 detachments. It does not have all the data sheets for the Index Daemons detachment and IIRC there are more Slaanesh units available for Index Daemons.

 

If anything, it seems like this would push any Daemon codex to have an identity as the place for for people who want mixed god forces. Or they’ll get rid of daemon codex. There’s just not enough info at the moment.

[Sir Clausel]

 

Anyone else thinking the army rule weirdly restrictive? If you advanced you cant shoot at a unit that one other of your units fell back from? 

You have to keep track out which units fell back from which and who advanced because you cant attack the same unit another one attacked if they both advanced. Seems annoying and something you have to keep track of.

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Clausel

[Metzombie]

8 minutes ago, Sir Clausel said:

 

Anyone else thinking the army rule weirdly restrictive? If you advanced you cant shoot at a unit that one other of your units fell back from? 

You have to keep track out which units fell back from which and who advanced because you cant attack the same unit another one attacked if they both advanced. Seems annoying and something you have to keep track of.

I think you need to read more carefully.

A unit cannot target a unit itselfe fell back from

A unit cannot target a unit another unit targeted or charged. It does not matter if other unit fell back or advanced. So you should in most cases start with the unit that fell back or advanced. After that your other units ca target whatever they want.

Edited 5 hours ago by Metzombie

[LSM]

2 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

More datasheets were uploaded, as well as points. Won't dump them all here or else it'll take up too much space.

 

Quick thoughts:

• Lord Exultant: triple pistols is an option, and they didn't forget to give them a basic CCW for when you do so. Spear and PP/Lash seem like the "gut" pick though, loadout wise. (Spear is the same as the Power Fist, but has one less pip of Strength, which it gets back on the Charge via [Lance]; Rapture Lash's [Extra Attacks] is likely more useful than the Plasma Pistol, but experiences vary.) Fist plus Screamer Pistol might work out nicely as well.
• Sorcerer seems solid, and can lead Noise Marines (as well as the Obsessives). Benefits Of Cover, and messing with enemy movement.
• Daemon Princes both seem quite fun. Native damage reduction on the Wing'd one, plus 14" move, Thrill Seekers, ~5 MWs on the charge. Foot slogger has the Lone Op near buddies, and then boosts their AP when charging, and gets to stay standing to do its melee business before dying. (And then maybe get brought back by an Enhancement...)
• EC Spawn are OC 1! (Also M10 compared to CSM's M8, and can do a 6" move when opponents move within 9".) Seem useful - I bet those who bought AoS Slaangor to use as Spawn are happy.
• Tormentors: [Precision] on all the ranged weapons is fun, as is the 1 Meltagun and 1 Plasma Gun per 5. No unseen options, unit champ is an 'Obsessionist'. Rapture Lash trades a point of AP for two more Attacks (vs the Power Sword). Fluff calls their Bolters "over-ornamented" and that sir, is a lie.
• Infractors: [Precision] on all the melee weapons. Ability is the same as CSM Legionaries, Duelling Sabres are the same as Chainswords. Can take an Icon, which we hadn't seen (I guess the studio used them all decorating their tanks, and didn't have enough left over to put one on an Infractor). Unit champ is also an Obsessionist.
• Terminators: indeed restricted to 5-man unit. M6", can re-roll the Charge if they Charge the same unit that they Shot. (Good for Deep Striking.)
• Heldrake: some weird changes compared to CSM (T9 v T10, 2+AS vs 3+AS, 14W vs 12W, 7+Ld vs 6+Ld). Fly-by MWs ability is swingy.
• Maulerfiend: Glutton for punishment is potentially quite good. Thrill Seekers (and strats) should make up for the loss of the CSM's Siege Crawler.
• Rhino: is Rhino.
• The Daemons: I'm a little crushed. As a proponent of better Daemon integration into the Cult Legions, I was pleased about them being in the book... but they're not, really, it seems. One detachment (which focusses on your daemons and mortals interacting) can take some - far worse then previous integration for the most part.

[Sir Clausel]

5 minutes ago, Metzombie said:

I think you need to read more carefully.

A unit cannot target a unit itselfe fell back from

A unit cannot target a unit another unit targeted or charged. It does not matter if other unit fell back or advanced. So you should in most cases start with the unit that fell back or advanced. After that your other units ca target whatever they want.

You are right! Its still restricted, but not as much. If you advanced with the whole army you wouldnt be able to shoot at the same target. Or charge the same target :)

[LSM]

Thoughts on Daemons:

• Index: CD daemons have the Faction Keyword [Legiones Daemonica]. Codex: EC's have [Legions of Excess].
• Grotmas Detachment, Legion of Excess, references the [Legiones Daemonica] keyword, which the Codex datasheets do not have. 
• Codex: EC daemons also have 'Pact of Excess' for their Faction Ability, rather than 'The Shadow of Chaos', which I don't think we've seen before.

If 'Pact of Excess' doesn't explain it, then it seems to me like you can't actually use the Legion of Excess detachment with the Legions of Excess "faction" units in Codex: EC.

 

One of the strats in the detachment also uses The Shadow of Chaos, which Codex: EC daemons do not have, unless it's explained in Pact of Excess.

 

(Or maybe they'll update the Grotmas Detachment.)

 

Edited 4 hours ago by LSM

[Dr. Clock]

Some of the choices are certainly mystifying, but overall this seems pretty decent purely on the back of mass Infiltrators and Scouts, plus lots of DS options. Anti-armour shooting is a bit of an issue for this list most definitely, though I'd be a little concerned about alpha potential if there was a too-obvious way to 1) crack a heap of transports and 2) shove 30-50 marines onto the occupants in turn 1.

 

I would expect a Landraider to show up in most lists though, alongside at least a pair of Noise Marines in Rhinos? That's... not a tonne of anti-armour shooting tbf, though if played well you'll also be suppressing enemy shooting with early melee before actually dismantling it in melee soon after...

 

So clearly this is a speed melee army primarily. That seems correct to me in principle, although I do feel like they should have probably left Forgefiends and Helbrutes in there. Not too excited to lose forgefiends from WE if this is the precedent. I do still try and take ~25% shooting options even in the most melee list. It's tough to play without at least somewhat participating in the artillery duel... Noise Marines honestly seem decent enough against light and medium vehicles though, as long as you have a plan to get in range.

 

In sum, I have some concerns but they feel manageable, especially considering that chucking a few Noisy Bois into CSM will still be an option if you just want the deeper shooting bench. That's honestly where a few of my WE builds end up - it's still plenty of fun and I don't feel as constricted by the low number of datasheets. Basically if you're not in love with the idea of fielding Fulgrim in all or most of your games, you might be better off just using a CSM list!

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, HeinzD said:

I mean, thats why i asked, it just seems unusual, 4 special weapons in a squad of 10, gives them a suprising amount of firepower

 

It's not a surprising amount, it's still not great since Bolters are still only Bolters. It's basically 190 points for infiltrating 4 Special Weapons. They're around to make space for you and not much else. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

Quick thoughts:

• Sorcerer seems solid

Nah he's pretty bad. Cover is easy to get. 

[01RTB01]

1 minute ago, HeadlessCross said:

Nah he's pretty bad. Cover is easy to get. 

Positives to be seen?

[HeadlessCross]

17 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Positives to be seen?

Not a lot, if not none. The Cover bonus is extremely redundant, they don't gain the Scout or Infiltrate rules like the Exultant does when joining the PA bros, and his Psychic gun is the same bad one Loyalist Scum and non-cult Sorcerers get. His move penalty rule is the best one, and frankly it makes no sense in an army already wanting to be in melee. You might think this would be peak time to join him in Noise Marines instead, but you know who doesn't need that movement penalty? Dead units, and the Exultant and Kakophonist actually make that happen. 

[BitsHammer]

Syll'Esske would have looked good in the Carnival detachment. Shame they aren't in the book since daemons and mortals of all kinds working together is their schtick.

[StrangerOrders]

Really, really pleased with the remainder of the sheets (although I am sure some folks will accuse the EC codex of eating their babies still, as if that were a bad thing).

 

Love the troops, Infractors are like weird Infiltrator/Intercessor/Guardian blends whereas Tormentors are like Assault Intercessors crossed with Incursors, except all are ironically enough better marksmen. While reasonably price baring GW snorting enough Warp Dust to convince them a points hike day 1 is smart.

 

Very happy honestly even if I still see the anti-armour problem, you'd have to be a lunatic to try to throw Faultless Blades or Fulgrim at Knights for example.... which I am but that's not the topic at hand.

 

I also really do not want to process how the Lord is firing that third pistol...

Edited 2 hours ago by StrangerOrders

[Rain]

5 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

I also really do not want to process how the Lord is firing that third pistol...

 

Slaanesh is a pathway to many abilities that some would consider unnatural.

[BitsHammer]

8 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

Very happy honestly even if I still see the anti-armour problem, you'd have to be a lunatic to try to throw Faultless Blades or Fulgrim at Knights for example.... which I am but that's not the topic at hand.

 

I also really do not want to process how the Lord is firing that third pistol...

I mean Fulgrim can poison the knight so that could be fun.

 

And I am sure From Dusk to Dawn has some ideas.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Take a good look at those EC grunts. In that kind of shape the new iteration of Mark 7/8 will be rebranded in a few years.

[Macidious]

Don’t suppose anyone has any codex photo leaks of lore? Like what fulgrims been up to 

[Mogger351]

6 minutes ago, Macidious said:

Don’t suppose anyone has any codex photo leaks of lore? Like what fulgrims been up to 

Dirt track racing in predators and snorting cultists as a guess given the roster.