EC Rumours

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, Macidious said:

Don’t suppose anyone has any codex photo leaks of lore? Like what fulgrims been up to 

All I have seen was posted here. I would repost it but apparently the filesize is excessive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmperorsChildren/s/G6kaY2P3j2

[Tokugawa]

EC version KoS and Shalaxi are weaker than current daemon version(no fnp).  Would daemon index also change datasheets?

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

EC version KoS and Shalaxi are weaker than current daemon version(no fnp).  Would daemon index also change datasheets?

No idea. It's not impossible but then again they might have nerfed their loaned out counterparts to prevent wonky combos.

 

Honestly the studio has become increasingly opaque when it comes to communication this edition and that is frustrating as a player. They don't even put articles up everytime points and FAQs come out.

[HeadlessCross]

8 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Honestly the studio has become increasingly opaque when it comes to communication this edition and that is frustrating as a player. They don't even put articles up everytime points and FAQs come out.

I noticed this trend as well. What was it, about 1 or 2 weeks ago there was a random update?

[Marshal Loss]

Feeling positive about the second tranche of datasheet leaks. I'm disappointed that the Lord Exultant can't be attached to Flawless Blades, but really pleased with his array of options. Tormentors/Infractors look great and have some real playability, which I'm super happy about as it's nice to want to take actual troops in the army. Unsure whether I want to build my DP with wings or not as both options look very good. 

 

Can't wait to get my hands on some of these models! I'm leaning towards a Slaanesh's Chosen detachment as my first project 'theme' with a bunch of Lords Exultant running around, but we'll see. Much like the Legion trait I expect to flit from thrill to thrill. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I second what the Marshall says, particularly in relation to our battleline choices.  I'll be sorry to give up my 50 point objective grabbing cultists, but the Tormentors seem a pretty good fill in - plus, and while I may have a head full of best case scenarios, [Precision] meltaguns strike me as really sweet.  That said, the cultist sticky objectives is better, the enemy only removing it if holding the objective at the end of turn, rather end of phase like the EC one (so, with EC an enemy could move onto the objective and remove the "stickiness" at the end of phase, then charge off of it - while with cultists they would need to forgo the charge and stay there to the end of turn to remove your control).

 

Its interesting comparing the units we do get from the CSM codex, in that the rules do seem to have shifted.  The EC sorcerer is a downgrade of the CSM one (IMHO), as benefits from cover is strictly worse than -1 to hit and the "limit mobility" ability seems at best a side grade of the CSM mortal wounds.  On the other hand, the EC Spawn are actually useful, having an OC value and a unit ability that is more likely to be relevant (a reactive move rather than tiny OC lowering aura of the CSM one) but is still too expensive.  The rhino, interestingly, also is different - it loses its regeneration ability in the CSM codex and instead gains some mobility, letting it dump out its occupants even if it advanced and still letting said occupants shoot (but not charge).  I think that's probably better, but I would need to work out what I would want to put in it.

 

Demon prince abilities also seem better (though I can't say for sure, as I've never played them with my CSM in 10th and my recall of their exact abilities is poor).  That said, the aura buff on the foot lord strikes me as harder to trigger than one might expect.

 

Anyway, given the restricted unit listing in the EC codex, I've decided to make my EC army a new thing rather than convert my existing Emperor's Children CSM army into one... its not like I don't have 1 of every other 40K slanneshi force.  

 

Incidentally, I ran the math on the squad upgrade champions, and the lash is (almost) always better than the sword - they are the same stats except for attacks and AP, with the lash pushing through more wounds (on average) an everything but 2+ saves, where the two are tied.  For this edition, anyway.  Weird that they have S 4 power swords unlike the S 5 on everyone else.

Edited February 27 by Dr_Ruminahui

[01RTB01]

I've been playing around with points. Honestly, beyond our specific units, I'm not sure you'd have the points to take the other things like raptors etc.

 

I think there'll be enough build variety with what we have to keep us happy for a long time.

 

Triple rhinos with noise marines

Lords with Infractors bombing up the board 

Fulgrim charging t1

Lucius and mates coming on via strategic reserves

 

That's 2k right there. Honestly, can't wait.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, with more than 25% of your points in characters, I'm not surprised you're not having trouble reaching your cap. 

[01RTB01]

14 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Well, with more than 25% of your points in characters, I'm not surprised you're not having trouble reaching your cap. 

Fair :) even dropping fulgrim and Lucius, the points feel like they get eaten quickly - faultless blades are hefty pointed too.

 

All said, looking forward to getting them on the table and seeing what can be done.

[01RTB01]

20 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

Really? Because on the previous page LSM said:

That tells be doubled sprues. 

Just looked at the sprues and datasheet. One is a power sword, one is the close combat weapon so no issues there. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Fair :) even dropping fulgrim and Lucius, the points feel like they get eaten quickly - faultless blades are hefty pointed too.

 

All said, looking forward to getting them on the table and seeing what can be done.

Lucius looks mandatory. Fulgrim...less so on first glance. That's still 400 points right there. 

[Marshal Loss]

The handful of pages of lore we've got so far are fantastic and exactly what I'd hoped for. Really keen to see more.

 

(I put the datasheets & lore bits onto imgur for my own browsing while I travel around unable to use the reddit links above, in case that's of use to anybody)

[HeadlessCross]

26 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

The handful of pages of lore we've got so far are fantastic and exactly what I'd hoped for. Really keen to see more.

 

(I put the datasheets & lore bits onto imgur for my own browsing while I travel around unable to use the reddit links above, in case that's of use to anybody)

Able to give a summary of the most important bits?

 

Also anyone notice that the champs for the PA dudes don't have S5 on their Power Swords?

[01RTB01]

13 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Able to give a summary of the most important bits?

 

Also anyone notice that the champs for the PA dudes don't have S5 on their Power Swords?

It's a 3 page overview. Quick and easy read :)

[LSM]

2 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Just looked at the sprues and datasheet. One is a power sword, one is the close combat weapon so no issues there. 

 

I think they're both Power Swords. The "Close Combat Weapon" is just so that folks wielding the (two handed) Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters can do something in melee.

 

The only person you'd glue that bit on is a Disharmonist with Screamer Pistol and Power Sword.

[Macidious]

with this box coming out first for a little while, what do you guys think will be the best detachment to run with what comes in this box plus a few additions to make it a rough 1k list 

[Mogger351]

44 minutes ago, Macidious said:

with this box coming out first for a little while, what do you guys think will be the best detachment to run with what comes in this box plus a few additions to make it a rough 1k list 

Someone did the maths and there's about 750 in there, shove in a maulerfiend and a rhino, an enhancement and you're about there.

[Macidious]

13 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Someone did the maths and there's about 750 in there, shove in a maulerfiend and a rhino, an enhancement and you're about there.

Yeah pretty much tbh , I’m just struggling to decide what will be the best detachment for that group , sadly noise marines get no support from any of the detachments really so yeah not sure

[BitsHammer]

While Noise Marines don't have a detachment just for them, they do gain buffs from 4 out of 6 detachments. They can benefit from the Coterie, namely the 1, 3, and 7+ buffs (re-roll 1s to hit, re-roll 1s to wound, and Critical Hits on a 5+ respectively). Rapid Evisceration also benefits them if you like Rhinos (they hop out and get to reroll hit and wound rolls of 1). If you don't mind keeping daemons near them they also get Sustained Hits 1 in the Carnival. Mecurial Host lets them scoot around the table more reliably so they get more turns of shooting.

 

The only two that I can't find some buff to Noise Marines are the Bladesmen, since the buff is all melee, and the Chosen since their buff is only on a single unit and can shift around on you if you took more than one character.

Edited February 27 by BitsHammer

[Macidious]

31 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

While Noise Marines don't have a detachment just for them, they do gain buffs from 4 out of 6 detachments. They can benefit from the Coterie, namely the 1, 3, and 7+ buffs (re-roll 1s to hit, re-roll 1s to wound, and Critical Hits on a 5+ respectively). Rapid Evisceration also benefits them if you like Rhinos (they hop out and get to reroll hit and wound rolls of 1). If you don't mind keeping daemons near them they also get Sustained Hits 1 in the Carnival. Mecurial Host lets them scoot around the table more reliably so they get more turns of shooting.

 

The only two that I can't find some buff to Noise Marines are the Bladesmen buff is all melee, and the Chosen since their buff is only on a single unit and can shift around on you if you took more than one character.

Yeah I think I’m trying to decide between coterie and rapid evisceration  

[Vassakov]

14 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I noticed this trend as well. What was it, about 1 or 2 weeks ago there was a random update?

 

They still do full articles for Balance Dataslates, but not for minor errata's or the MFM updates for new Codicies which is what the recent updates have been (Aelderi & AM.)

 

There will probably be another one in a month or so when the EC Codex drops in it's entirety, but not sure if they'll be a Balance Dataslate for a couple of months. The game actually seems fairly balanced, though revisions of some of the nerfs to Sisters would be appreciated. AM are probably still just a complete mess, but otherwise most of the factions are fine even if some are more fine than others. 

[Ahzek451]

I'm a little tardy to the party but man this release has a lot of mixed feelings. On one hand, awesome, the pantheon is complete, the models are pretty darn good(not the biggest fan of lucius's face, looks like the mudman to me), daemons are folded into the army(sortof). 

On the other, the daemons were folded in one of the jankiest ways. Please correct me if wrong, but is the only way to include them is to bring them in a detachment? I don't know how to feel on how they executed this. 

I am 100% baffled on the exclusion of helbrutes, predators, demolishers and forgefiends. Why? I can't make sense of it until I see how they handle the upcoming WE, TS, DG. If, for example TS retain all the vehicles they currently have, man, then that just makes me feel sorry for the EC. And I would assume GW is drunk at the wheel on this one. If they gut more vehicles for WE, TS, DG....well....that really sucks. 

Has there been info on the Blastmasters yet? Curious to know if they have any anti-armour potential. 

[BitsHammer]

Unless GW comes out and says otherwise the rules for allying Daemons in via their own index rules should still be legal but the only way to play 50% of your army as Daemons instead of 25% is via that one detachment.

[Rain]

23 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

I am 100% baffled on the exclusion of helbrutes, predators, demolishers and forgefiends. Why? I can't make sense of it until I see how they handle the upcoming WE, TS, DG. If, for example TS retain all the vehicles they currently have, man, then that just makes me feel sorry for the EC. And I would assume GW is drunk at the wheel on this one. If they gut more vehicles for WE, TS, DG....well....that really sucks. 
 

Vindicators were removed from World Eaters in 9th, so there is precedent for quiet vehicle removal. I think Death Guard can’t take them either, but they have Plagueburst Crawlers so they gain something in return.

 

I am hoping that they don’t cut Predators and Brutes from WE, as I have both, and my hope is that 9th was the cutting point for WE. Then again, as with DG, it depends on what they add. If they just cut Brutes, FF’s, and Preds, and add a single foot character and a janky demon detachment, that would be really bad.

 

However, if they add say, 3 new WE units, like Red Butchers, Jugger cavalry, and (really wishlisting here) a unit with chaincannons or flamers, or other suitably Khornate ranged weapons, they can have the Predators.

[LSM]

57 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

On the other, the daemons were folded in one of the jankiest ways. Please correct me if wrong, but is the only way to include them is to bring them in a detachment? I don't know how to feel on how they executed this...

Has there been info on the Blastmasters yet? Curious to know if they have any anti-armour potential. 

 

On Daemons, there are two interesting things to note (that we have not seen referenced at all yet):

• They have the 'Summoned' keyword, which is new.
• They have the 'Pact of Excess' as their Faction Ability, which is new.

It is possible that 'Pact of Excess' turns out to be something to allow you to include Legions of Excess daemons in any EC army, but at a lower rate than the Carnival detachment. (25% instead of 50%, perhaps?)

 

It's also possible that a Codex/updated Index: Chaos Daemons' 'Daemonic Pact' Army Rule still allows you to ally in Chaos Daemons. (Perhaps so long as there aren't also any 'Summoned' units already present?)

 

//

 

It would have been nice if the WarCom article "explaining how daemons will work" had actually fully explained how daemons will work.

 

(Of course, that article says that you can still play the Legion of Excess detachment from Grotmas to play full Slaanesh Daemons, but the Legion of Excess detachment doesn't actually work with the Legions of Excess units from Codex: EC, as the keywords don't align. So the Codex: EC daemons can't be the only daemons around.)

 

//

 

On Blastmasters, not really much anti-tank potential:

• Single Frequency: 18", A3, S10, AP-2, D3, [Ignores Cover]
• Varied Frequnecy: 18", A6, S6, AP-2, D1, [Ignores Cover]

 

(Sonic Blasters and Screamer Pistols share an A3, S5, AP-2, D2, [Ignores Cover] profile, with the only different being that the Screamer Pistol are 12" and the 'Blasters are 18".)

 

It seems the best options in the army for dealing with armour are: War Dogs, Maulerfiends, Fulgrim, ~Lucius, Flawless Blades.

 

(I think it's kind of awful, narratively, that our "supreme duellists" are some of our primary tank killers.)

 

Edited February 27 by LSM