EC Rumours

[DeadFingers]

37 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

My underline.  My natural question was, why was that important to him?  I have a few criticisms about the model (I personally prefer the snake look to the eel one, and am not a fan of the peeled back skin, though I don't question those as valid design choices even if I would have preferred different ones), but my main one is that I think it was a misstep to make all the non-helmetted heads so similar... so I'm particularly curious as to why the designer felt it was important to do so.

For the same reason it was important to him to preserve the backpack and rounded shoulder pads Fulgrim's never had. I don't actually know what that reason is, but I assume it's the same one that compelled him to make four facial expressions instead of four distinct faces in the style of Magnus.

 

I really like the model, I do. I think the face with the wide open smile is brilliant (it's great to have a character who is enjoying themselves for a change) and the parts of the model I don't like as much are minimal or optional. But I also find the reasoning behind some of the design decisions to be... flimsy, for lack of a better word. Misguided perhaps. He keeps putting emphasis on the "he's a space marine" thing. My man, he's Fulgrim. He doesn't follow an aesthetic he establishes it.

 

Magnus has barely a handful of minuscule details that tie him to the Space Marine aesthetic and I don't see anyone wondering if he truly is the Primarch of the Thousand Sons. And again, I love Fulgrim's model, but reading this interview I can't help but be confused at the logic. If he had just said "I made him this way cause I think he looks cool like this" I'd have thought "fair enough". But I suppose that wouldn't fill out an entire article, would it?

Edited Thursday at 10:57 PM by DeadFingers

[TheMawr]

35 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I found this particular comment about Fulgrim quite interesting:

 

 

My underline.  My natural question was, why was that important to him?  I have a few criticisms about the model (I personally prefer the snake look to the eel one, and am not a fan of the peeled back skin, though I don't question those as valid design choices even if I would have preferred different ones), but my main one is that I think it was a misstep to make all the non-helmetted heads so similar... so I'm particularly curious as to why the designer felt it was important to do so.  Really, to me it makes a lot more sense to do exactly what the designer explicitly rejects - doing different heads to reflect the various different aspects of Fulgrim, and letting the owner choose which one makes the most sense for him/her.  Instead, we get 3 very similar takes of "Nicolas Cage as a vampire".

 

I guess what is putting me off about the comment is that its made like its a no-brainer to do it the way the designer did it, while for me that's true for the rejected approach instead.  I mean, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that most EC players would have preferred the choice between a beautiful head, a demonic head and something in between instead of the 3 very similar cheese eating grins we got.

 

I think he refers to what he says earlier :

 

" We wanted to create a vision of the Primarch 10,000 years after the Horus Heresy – and Fulgrim has spent a lot of that time in the Warp. 

No matter your strength of character or transhuman physiology, exposure to the Empyrean for that long is going to change you. Because of that, the miniature had to convey a sense of what Fulgrim used to be and also what he has become. He definitely believes he is still beautiful and handsome, but he is ultimately a creature twisted by the Warp.

One idea that hooked me early on was that despite his monstrousness Fulgrim would appear beguiling on the battlefield, and so I arrived at the classic imagery of the mermaid or siren. From a distance he looks appealing and enticing, but up close he is repulsive and deadly."

[Dr_Ruminahui]

That's fair, though I don't see how his "effected by the warp" argument is more supportive of the midway approach chosen rather than the rejected "options" approach. It seems like an odd design choice to outright reject a "Fulgrim can be beautiful head" on that basis and it would have made more sense to me that such a head would be included as an option.  Personally, having a huge eel body is enough to communicate the "not actually beautiful" message while a more attractive head choice would better reflect that aspect of Fulgrim (along with a demonic head and a "middling" head available for those to whom that best reflects Fulgrim) while still be in keeping with the "the warp changes you" theme.

 

I guess my biggest surprise/disappointment isn't that the existing heads exist or are bad (they aren't), just that they are all minor variations on a given theme where, to me, it would make more sense to have presented heads representing different aspects of Fulgrim and allowing individual model owner's to chose the one that best reflects the aspect of Fulgrim they want to emphasize.

Edited Thursday at 11:37 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[01RTB01]

13 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

That's fair, though I don't see how his "effected by the warp" argument is more supportive of the midway approach chosen rather than the rejected "options" approach. It seems like an odd design choice to outright reject a "Fulgrim can be bautiful head" on that basis and it would have made more sense to me that such a head would be included as an option.  Personally, having a huge eel body is enough to communicate the "not actually beautiful" message while a more attractive head choice would better reflect that aspect of Fulgrim (along with a demonic head and a "middling" head available for those to whom that best reflects Fulgrim) while still be in keeping with the "the warp changes you" theme.

 

I guess my biggest surprise/disappointment isn't that the existing heads exist or are bad (they aren't), just that they are all minor variations on a given theme where, to me, it would make more sense to have presented heads representing different aspects of Fulgrim and allowing individual model owner's to chose the one that best reflects the aspect of Fulgrim they want to emphasize.

I can only assume the confused face is in relation to his base size being bigger than his siblings. Otherwise I genuinely don't get that.

 

That notwithstanding, there are aspects within the article that make me like the model more. However, seeing the build process, the tail could be 'fun' to paint. That said, I am looking forward to getting him and some paint on him.

[Marshal Loss]

Regarding the direction they went with his facial expressions, this is Fulgrim at the zenith of his corruption; while he's known at least in the 30k-era novels to change from his humanoid pre-daemon form to his daemonic snake form, I see the latter as his 'true' appearance - i.e. it doesn't make sense to me that at this point in his arc you'd have a beautiful face attached to a form that has been saturated in warp energy for 10,000 years. That ship has sailed. I'm sure he can masquerade as his pre-corruption self but I think when that veil slips, this is what you get. Magnus by contrast makes the most sense to have categorically different facial options, whereas Angron and Mortarion, as with Fulgrim, have the same face with variant expressions.

 

I like it as a contrast with his 30k-era Transfigured form which has possibly the best face sculpt I've ever seen in the flesh. That being said, I understand the disappointment articulated above about why so many minor variations of the same head were included (I certainly wouldn't have had 4x of the same face on my bingo card). 

[LSM]

8 hours ago, Nephaston said:

As far as I'm aware Fulgrim never really interacted with the noise aspect as much if at all. Then again, a scream attack for ranged wouldn't have been unwelcome.

 

Not much, no. Though characters like Eidolon (who in The Path of Heaven self-identified as the man who had embraced the Sonic Cults more than any other) consider Fulgrim to be the one that led them to the truth of Slaanesh. Eidolon wouldn't be such a (pre-2016) Noise Marine if not for following Fulgrim's lead.

 

And I guess Slaves to Darkness does have this bit:

 

Fulgrim stared at him, contempt burning in the gaze. Then he shook his hair out and tilted his head back. His throat rippled. Wet red gills opened. Pouches of skin inflated. Fulgrim called into the abyss. It had no true sound, but reality blurred and vibrated as its silent note rose. Actaea flinched, head twitching as blood ran from her ears. The blade slaves growled, the teeth of their swords grinding. Layak heard it in his mind, echoing across his link with the daemon. It was a command, a call to gather like the cry of a wolf to its pack. Sensations and images came with it, fragments of nightmares and joy: the taste of a fruit picked just as it ripened, the gasp of someone dying in strangled terror, the warmth of flesh against the razor’s edge.

 

Out the call went, piercing time and space. It vibrated through the gene-laced blood of Fulgrim’s bastard sons. On his throne Eidolon heard it, and blood flooded the whites of his eyes. In the sound-drowned ruins of Nus, Glorocletian, Apex of the Crescendio, heard the cry over the sounds of shattering stone and the screams of the dying. On Netis’ black sands, Lucius looked up from the scattered limbs on the ground beneath his sword. The faces on his armour swirled and echoed the call. In a thousand places of suffering, the children of the Emperor heard and raised themselves from the pleasure of their slaughter. They rose with bitterness in their hearts, with joy, with apathy, but rise they did. Ships broke from the orbits of mutilated worlds. Scattered fleets came about as they rode the frayed remnants of the Ruinstorm. From across the burning Imperium, the Emperor’s Children heeded the demand, and the promise, of their primarch.

 

 

6 hours ago, Rain said:

How many EC are “true” Noise Marines has been in flux in the past, but the past 20+ years have made it pretty clear that Noise Marines are a small piece of the greater whole, and do not define the EC in the way that, say, Butchers Nails and Berzerkers define the WE....

 

Mmmhhmmm.

 

On the one hand, I tend to use "Noise Marine" as a catch-all for the aesthetics (beyond wielding Sonic Weapons). This stems from the 2002 Codex being foundational to my love of Noise Marines and The Emperor's Children - as you note, they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in that Codex, so to me Sonic Weapons aren't integral to Noise Marines. (Though they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in the '96, '02, '07, '12, '17, or '22 Codexes; just in the '99 and '25 ones. And in their '91 WD rules - where they were reasonably Bolter-esque - and the '93 Black Codex - where they were Storm Bolters, rules wise.)

 

So when I say that I wish Fulgrim was more Noise Marine-ish, I don't mean as some (post-2016) stoner lugging around a pair of Sonic Blasters, strung out on the Song of Slaanesh. I mean superfluous voxes, chains, studs, leathers, straps, drug lines, canisters of who-knows-what, etc. Manic tweeker sensorian stuff. The rest of the line features that "classic Noise Marine aesthetic", as I think of it; objectively I think Fulgrim should too. He leads the faction, he should share in its tropes.

 

//

 

On the other hand... I do wish there was more "sonic-ness" in general. (Particularly in the rules.)

 

I love the 40k Emperor's Children. I love the 30k Emperor's Children. I love how the Horus Heresy rules reflect the transition the legion was undergoing; the (pre-2016) Sonic Cult taking over here and there.

 

Captain Lucius and the Palatine Blades - obsessive swordsmen, striving for martial perfection... who get surgical augments like Sonic Shriekers to go screaming into combat.

 

The sculptor talks about liking the faces on Fulgrim's knees in that one book cover, and so wanting to carry it forward with the daemonic faces on Fulgrim's hip plates. But... why does that art have screaming faces on his knees? Because Noise Marines had speaker faces as a motif, and the 30k range includes bits of precursor imagery - echoes from the future...

 

Now they've bounced back forward, sans sonic styling.

 

Edited Friday at 02:07 AM by LSM

[Nephaston]

Clearer Sprue pics. He has sculpted buttocks 10/10 no notes.

 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

Not much, no. Though characters like Eidolon (who in The Path of Heaven self-identified as the man who had embraced the Sonic Cults more than any other) consider Fulgrim to be the one that led them to the truth of Slaanesh. Eidolon wouldn't be such a (pre-2016) Noise Marine if not for following Fulgrim's lead.

 

And I guess Slaves to Darkness does have this bit:

 

Fulgrim stared at him, contempt burning in the gaze. Then he shook his hair out and tilted his head back. His throat rippled. Wet red gills opened. Pouches of skin inflated. Fulgrim called into the abyss. It had no true sound, but reality blurred and vibrated as its silent note rose. Actaea flinched, head twitching as blood ran from her ears. The blade slaves growled, the teeth of their swords grinding. Layak heard it in his mind, echoing across his link with the daemon. It was a command, a call to gather like the cry of a wolf to its pack. Sensations and images came with it, fragments of nightmares and joy: the taste of a fruit picked just as it ripened, the gasp of someone dying in strangled terror, the warmth of flesh against the razor’s edge.

 

Out the call went, piercing time and space. It vibrated through the gene-laced blood of Fulgrim’s bastard sons. On his throne Eidolon heard it, and blood flooded the whites of his eyes. In the sound-drowned ruins of Nus, Glorocletian, Apex of the Crescendio, heard the cry over the sounds of shattering stone and the screams of the dying. On Netis’ black sands, Lucius looked up from the scattered limbs on the ground beneath his sword. The faces on his armour swirled and echoed the call. In a thousand places of suffering, the children of the Emperor heard and raised themselves from the pleasure of their slaughter. They rose with bitterness in their hearts, with joy, with apathy, but rise they did. Ships broke from the orbits of mutilated worlds. Scattered fleets came about as they rode the frayed remnants of the Ruinstorm. From across the burning Imperium, the Emperor’s Children heeded the demand, and the promise, of their primarch.

 

 

 

Mmmhhmmm.

 

On the one hand, I tend to use "Noise Marine" as a catch-all for the aesthetics (beyond wielding Sonic Weapons). This stems from the 2002 Codex being foundational to my love of Noise Marines and The Emperor's Children - as you note, they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in that Codex, so to me Sonic Weapons aren't integral to Noise Marines. (Though they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in the '96, '02, '07, '12, '17, or '22 Codexes; just in the '99 and '25 ones. And in their '91 WD rules - where they were reasonably Bolter-esque - and the '93 Black Codex - where they were Storm Bolters, rules wise.)

 

 

 

Possibly pedantic but noise marines didn't have sonic weapons as default in the 2nd Ed codex, however, they were only armed with bolt pistols as default. Nobody took noise marines sans sonic weapons then. 

 

There has been an evolution of identity for the cult marines though and the post heresy legions. 

[LSM]

12 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

...Nobody took noise marines sans sonic weapons then...

 

I didn't play in 2nd edition, so have no lived experience. From what I've heard, ranged was better than melee in general (due to the way that models had to fight models, rather than units fighting units).

 

I could theoretically see an edge case for taking a trio of naked Noise Marines if you commonly faced psykers though, just for the Psychic Cacophony bubble.

 

Jes Goodwin's '95 sketch also had a basic BP+CCW Noise Marine (below), and in the '99 Codex you could replace three Sonic Blasters with Doom Sirens (plus the Noise Marine's Aspiring Champion automatically lost their Sonic Blaster, replaced with BP+CCW+Doom Siren). So I'll still push back against the notion that Noise Marines were previously just guys wailing on their 'Blasters. (Not to mention the 2002-2024 era.) 

 

(Note: for the current kit, I wish there was no Disharmonist, and instead 2-of-6 could be given Blastmasters or Screamer Pistol+Power Sword. Then I'd make the Blastmaster not be a pure upgrade over the Sonic Blaster, such that there were use cases where someone might theoretically want to take an entire unit of 'Blasters. Maybe increase the Range/Strength/AP/Damage on the Single Frequency but make it a single shot, and then drop the Strength and AP on the Varied Frequency. Then I'd remove their 'Close Combat Weapon' (A3 WS3+ S4 AP0 D1) and replace it with 'Doom Siren' (A1 [Sustained Hits 2] WS3+ S5 AP-1 D2) and give the Power Sword the [Extra Attacks] keyword. Oh, and then make them [Battleline], or at least provide a detachment that does so.)

 

Spoiler

 

Edited Friday at 03:27 PM by LSM

[Nephaston]

More sprues. Lucius being crammed into a singular sprue is impressive.

 

[de Selby]

I did find the designers notes a little odd, like they were trying to justify choices after the fact rather than part of a design plan.

 

Am I understanding right that you can now have an absolute maximum of 18 noise marines in a Emperor's Children army? I have more  than that in my no-name Slaaneshi chaos space marines force.

[LSM]

48 minutes ago, de Selby said:

I did find the designers notes a little odd, like they were trying to justify choices after the fact rather than part of a design plan.

 

Am I understanding right that you can now have an absolute maximum of 18 noise marines in a Emperor's Children army? I have more  than that in my no-name Slaaneshi chaos space marines force.

 

Correct. 18 maximum Noise Marines in a EC/CSM army, and you'll have to rebase them to be on 40mm bases.

 

(Plus 3 Kakophonists in EC.)

 

Though as the second design article noted: "Noise Marines are equivalents to Havocs: long-range support fighters... Before this release, Noise Marines were the core infantry alongside Chaos Space Marine Legionaries. Tormentors and Infractors now become the core infantry of the Emperor’s Children."

 

Noise Marines aren't the core of the Emperor's Children anymore.

 

//

 

Flipping through Fulgrim, and a little passage that struck me (with its description of Lucius, primarily):

 

At the forefront of the Emperor’s Children, Lord Commander Eidolon and the swordsman Lucius led a contingent of their warriors into the heart of the enemy, killing with wondrous displays of bladework and howling shrieks of raw sonic power. The swordsman danced through the battle, his Terran blade carving a screaming, bloody path as he laughed in time with music only he could hear.

 

Marius Vairosean and his orchestra of damnation ploughed the bloody sand with their terrifying harmonics, ripping open flesh and metal with shrieking chords and howling scales. In contrast, Julius Kaesoron took little part in the fighting, expending his energies in the mutilation and defilement of the corpses left in his brother’s wake. Trophies of flesh hung from his armour, each violation he wreaked on the flesh of the enemy more extreme than the last.

 

Going forward, my head-canon for how Lucius sounds:

Spoiler

 

 

A nod to his Noise Marine-ness, which is no longer recognised.

 

Edited Friday at 05:31 PM by LSM

[SkimaskMohawk]

17 hours ago, Marshal Loss said:

it doesn't make sense to me that at this point in his arc you'd have a beautiful face attached to a form that has been saturated in warp energy for 10,000 years.

 

Except that's not how daemons work lol. It's how non daemons hanging out in the eye work, but fulgrim....is a daemon; there's no further corruption.

[Rain]

28 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Except that's not how daemons work lol. It's how non daemons hanging out in the eye work, but fulgrim....is a daemon; there's no further corruption.

 

Right. While it's somewhat intentionally ambiguous, my understanding is that demons exist "outside of time." So, for example, while Slaanesh was "born" at the same time as the Fall of the Eldar, as soon as it came into existence, it had always existed, and it will always exist. Similarly, it stands to reason that a demon prince, upon achievement of demonhood, would exist outside of linear time, and would not become "further corrupted" as time passes in the outside universe.

 

But of course this concept makes no sense. Which is the point. Because it's the warp. So it's all kind of hand waved, and is whatever the plot and model designers need it to be.

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, de Selby said:

I did find the designers notes a little odd, like they were trying to justify choices after the fact rather than part of a design plan.

 

Am I understanding right that you can now have an absolute maximum of 18 noise marines in a Emperor's Children army? I have more  than that in my no-name Slaaneshi chaos space marines force.

Alternatively, use them as tormentors. They will be noticeably smaller in body and gear than the new noise marines, but that way you won'tneed to rebase, and can still bring a full 60. Any sonic weapon just happens to be a fancy bolter/plasma/melta.

 

48 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Except that's not how daemons work lol. It's how non daemons hanging out in the eye work, but fulgrim....is a daemon; there's no further corruption.

Arguably, on his transfiguration, he was still in realspace which would tie him to causality as long as he stays there. Iirc he only left realspace at the end of the heresy.

 

Not to mention that slaanshi daemons like himself also change constantly, so a more "corrupted" look is plausible, even if they aren't tied to linear time. Hell, as a former mortal he might stick to a bit of linearity out of habit.

[TheMawr]

I must admit I dont know how it is now, or if I interpreted it wrongly in the past.

But it used to be that Daemon was used indiscriminately to describe 2 slightly different things :

-- Any and all warp entities, including those that where mortals once ( daemon princes.), some warp creatures and ofcourse the Eldar daemons.
-- Those select warp entities that are the essence of the Chaos gods

 

The elements of timelessness used to only apply to the latter, not to all daemons.. and it wasnt because they are daemons, but because they are essentially the chaos god; Basically a Fiend of Slaanesh is as much Slaanesh as one of your skin cells are you. Its the Chaos gods, and them alone upon whom the "once they exist they always existed" paradox applied.

 

This used to not apply to other warp entities like Daemon princes ( wich afaik, Daemon primarchs are.)

 

I assumed this part was never changed because the Yncarne didnt always exist when it was born ( and its not just a keyword, grey knights see it as a daemon too.), nor did any of the daemon primarchs also exist alongside their pre-fallen form in the Horus Heresy, at least, I have not seen evidence of it ( but again, I havent read any books on the horus heresy apart from the one featuring exodites, wich was a very grounded book with few bigger picture story elements if I remember correctly.)

Would give interesting storylines though :)

[TheMawr]

While I do agree more with the corrupted version and the fluff behind that.

On a practical level I must say that its truelly a waste, to use sprue space for barely different facial expressions.. that for more casual or army level painters will make even less of a difference than they already do.

 

So while I agree with monstrous fulgrim, I also agree they should have gone for completely different faces.

[Rain]

@TheMawr Fair enough. I've read so much Chaos lore over the years, that it's hard for me to cite sources, or even be sure if something that I am remembering was explicitly stated, or was just my impression. This all being fiction, I don't worry as much about being "correct" in 40k lore arguments as I would be in discussing real world history, politics, science, etc.

 

That out of the way, yes, the word "demon" is used in a potentially overbroad manner, though then again, maybe not. It depends on if you consider Chaos gods to differ from other warp entities in scope, or in kind. I have always interpreted the Chaos gods to be the "largest" and most significant warp entities, but not necessarily different in kind from various lesser demons, Eldar gods, or perhaps even the Emperor's presence in the warp. On this point, most lesser demons are not also the Chaos god, to the best of my recollection. I'm pretty sure this is/was a unique trait of Nurgle, as the GUO and Nurglings are all also Nurgle (similar to your skin cells analogy), with PB being the souls of the victims of Nurgle's Rot, given eternal semi-life as demons.

 

Most other demons (Bloodthirsters, KoS, etc.) are, at best, semi-independent shards of their god (the analogy being something like small sponges that bud off of a larger sponge) if not independently formed "pools" of emotion that happen to align with the emotions that exist within the realm of a given god. Hence why Skarbrand was able to "rebel" against Khorne. The point about mortals that become demons being more temporally bound, at least with respect to their date of ascension makes sense, but I'm not sure if there is any lore hear one way or the other, and the warp generally does not make sense. How exactly demonic ascension works is intentionally kept vague.

Edited Friday at 06:34 PM by Rain

[Joe]

I wasn't intended to pick the Lord Kakophonist up, however after seeing the sprue and how you can easily not use the organ backpack that's become an instant buy.

[SkimaskMohawk]

6 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Arguably, on his transfiguration, he was still in realspace which would tie him to causality as long as he stays there.

 

Err...based on what lol? 

 

21 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Iirc he only left realspace at the end of the heresy.

 

Lorgar had to fetch him from the warp to participate in the siege (and attempted coup). In the conversation Fulgrim says "time is not what it was", "That war. I remember it. How did it end again?", and "But no matter, what you have come all this way to say is that I should come back to your pitiful age..." ; Lorgar then binds him with his true name and brings him back to real space. He's a daemon during the heresy and has already experienced its events.

 

30 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Not to mention that slaanshi daemons like himself also change constantly, so a more "corrupted" look is plausible, even if they aren't tied to linear time.

 

Sure. He changes himself a lot during the events I referenced above; he can look however he wants based on how he feels. He can absolutely look like his 40k model.

 

I'm just saying the "he's been in the warp forever, he should look like a monster" line is a flawed argument. 

 

 

 

[Nephaston]

Someone magnetised the face.

 

22 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Err...based on what lol? 

Based on the idea that daemons have to play by the rules of realspace as long as they are within it. Most recent example I can think of is Vashtorr being annoyed at having to constrain himself like that when manifesting.

 

20 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Lorgar had to fetch him from the warp to participate in the siege (and attempted coup). In the conversation Fulgrim says "time is not what it was", "That war. I remember it. How did it end again?", and "But no matter, what you have come all this way to say is that I should come back to your pitiful age..." ; Lorgar then binds him with his true name and brings him back to real space. He's a daemon during the heresy and has already experienced its events.

You know what, I completely forgot about that. Hell, even more excuse to just use 30k fulgrim, money permitting.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

3 hours ago, LSM said:

Though as the second design article noted: "Noise Marines are equivalents to Havocs: long-range support fighters... Before this release, Noise Marines were the core infantry alongside Chaos Space Marine Legionaries. Tormentors and Infractors now become the core infantry of the Emperor’s Children."

 

Noise Marines aren't the core of the Emperor's Children anymore.

 

Yeah, that part of the article is just wrong in two ways - both the way you've noted (they aren't core) and that they are most definitely not long-range support fighters (after all, 3/4 the range of a bolter is barely medium range, let alone long).

 

That said, that seems to be more the rules people not communicating with the model people, or the rules being made after the models are already finished.

 

Regardless, it is a huge disconnect.

Edited Friday at 08:18 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Marshal Loss]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Except that's not how daemons work lol. It's how non daemons hanging out in the eye work, but fulgrim....is a daemon; there's no further corruption.

 

I'm aware of the Slaves to Darkness and the Lords of Silence (and so on) takes on the subject, and I've seen these discussions on both the 40k Fulgrim & Angron Transfigured threads after their respective reveals, but there is quite clearly some nuance here, and Primarchs are a bit of a special case. I don't think it's unreasonable to be of the view that Fulgrim can simultaneously experience the passage of time as a daemon while still having his form twisted and corrupted over time by the powers of the warp and the deity of whom he is now a part. That's clearly (and explicitly) what the designers went for, and it's not hard to invent a rationale for, even if Fulgrim isn't subconsciously aware of the how and why.

 

And we're talking about the warp here; it's a malevolent playground where a stricture is more a guideline than it is a rule.

 

  

2 hours ago, Joe said:

I wasn't intended to pick the Lord Kakophonist up, however after seeing the sprue and how you can easily not use the organ backpack that's become an instant buy.

 

Just saw that; really pleased, will make converting multiple non-identical Kakophonists a walk in the park. He has fully posable flat arm joints as well. The models in this release are so well-designed. Hopefully the Flawless Blade sprues are floating around soon

Edited Friday at 09:11 PM by Marshal Loss
pre-morning coffee spelling

[Gree]

Fulgrim isn't a flesh and blood mutant champion. Fulgrim is a daemon. He is a protean being of warpstuff and Chaos. Time and space have no real meaning to him. He has always been estabished as a shapeshifter. Even the EC codex contains a short story about him manifesting out of an Ultramarine Codicer. Fulgrim should be able to assume any aspect he so wishes to.

 

I'm going to guess they didn't want to give him a beauteous or handsome head because of the 30k model. GW has been increasingly trying to separate model ranges.

[Commissar Greif]

6 hours ago, Nephaston said:

More sprues. Lucius being crammed into a singular sprue is impressive.

 

 

Lord-Kakophonist's power sword being on the right arm is a good choice. Wonder how easy it would be to kitbash that sword onto the Lord-Exultant. Looks like it wouldn't be all too difficult.