Updated Space Wolves Rumours

[BitsHammer]

At this point I expect Bjorn to cross the Rubricon and end up getting a regular character mini.

 

Why? Because it's the least expected thing and GW loves curveballs.

 

As for Russ I like the Odin idea, but maybe instead he comes back thinking only a short time has past so for him the Scouring just happened recently but now he has to deal with the Imperium having changed in 10k years and he isn't mellowed out as much as the Lion has. That would keep his character growth from the Heresy, but also allow them to play off his more brash nature instead of changing his character drastically. And while still young it's not like all the Primarchs outside of Guilliman have to come back aged 10k years.

[Marshall Bretton]

One potentially really interesting option for the wolves as an update would be to ignore making any new primaris kits and instead focus on the 13th company.  Not the wulfen lot, the sane lot like in the Ragnar books etc. replacing grey hunters with grey slayers, a primaris sized kit but suitably viking like, would be a really cool way to bring an update to the range and the lore

[sarabando]

everyone calling for Odin russ forgets we already have Odin in the setting. 

 

Odin gave his eye for knowledge, was a powerful magician, had ravens(corvidei) as servants, and was struck low in his battle at the end of the world as it was consumed by Wolves, and giants. 

 

Odin is Magnus. 

 

 

[LSM]

Odd thought: plumbing the (shallow) profundity of my Emperor's Children knowledge in another thread brought back up the short story In Wolves Clothing (2015, Ian St Martin).

 

In it, a Space Wolves' hunting pack tracks down and kills Lucius the Eternal, which is of course Lucius' plan. Much like the Hammer & Bolter episode 'Eternal', Lucius uses his death to infiltrate and take control of the Space Wolves' ship. He then announces his master design: to harass and annoy the Space Wolves until Bjorn the Fell-Handed is roused from his slumber and the two can meet in combat.

 

Of course, that didn't go anywhere, but I think it might be the last time (chronologically) Lucius was up to anything definite. I think it's unlikely to be a story thread picked up, but the fact that the Emperor's Children and Space Wolves appear to be getting released one after the other... maybe there's something there?

[Wispy]

11 hours ago, sarabando said:

everyone calling for Odin russ forgets we already have Odin in the setting. 

 

Odin gave his eye for knowledge, was a powerful magician, had ravens(corvidei) as servants, and was struck low in his battle at the end of the world as it was consumed by Wolves, and giants. 

 

Odin is Magnus. 

Magnus is a false-Odin, though, he was scammed by the Ruinous Powers to entrapped by them and gained corrupt wisdom. His brash brother coming back wiser and enlightened would make Magnus' downfall all the more tragic, an interesting inversion and compelling backdrop to a rematch. Also it would drive Magnus nuts. Magnus has been having too many 'this is all according to keikaku' moments lately since his return, getting his plans :cuss:ed unexpectedly by a Gandalf-like intervention from a wizened Leman returning from the warp armed with lost, esoteric knowledge would be quite fun.

 

(Russ fully becoming a psyker would be quite a funny irony too lol. And would be complete the tropey triumvirate with Rowboat and the Lion - The General, the Warrior, the Sage)

 

(also Russ flatout has Odin's Wolves, Freki and Geri, and the Spear of Russ's hidden name was Gungir, and Rune Priests use Raven familiars, etc).

Edited October 18 by Wispy

[Indy Techwisp]

9 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Also, Magnus has been having too many 'this is all according to keikaku' moments lately since his return, getting his plans :cuss:ed unexpectedly by a Gandalf-like intervention from a wizened Leman returning from the warp armed with lost, esoteric knowledge would be quite fun.

Forget any joking about Leman Rus coming back as a Werewolf, having the Wolflord himself return to 40k as a full-blown "Equal-Or-Better-Than-Magnus" tier Psyker would be THE funniest things GW could do with him.

[crimsondave]

14 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

At this point I expect Bjorn to cross the Rubricon and end up getting a regular character mini.

 

Why? Because it's the least expected thing and GW loves curveballs.

 

As for Russ I like the Odin idea, but maybe instead he comes back thinking only a short time has past so for him the Scouring just happened recently but now he has to deal with the Imperium having changed in 10k years and he isn't mellowed out as much as the Lion has. That would keep his character growth from the Heresy, but also allow them to play off his more brash nature instead of changing his character drastically. And while still young it's not like all the Primarchs outside of Guilliman have to come back aged 10k years.

I would like this best.  I really want to see the SWs and DAs find out their fathers actually really like each other and how they react.  I could see Lion saying absolutely nothing whatsoever about it and Russ screwing with both his boys and the DAs ruthlessly.  Plus DAs and SWs teamed up are absolute beasts when they’re on the same page.

[beefeb]

On 10/17/2024 at 10:52 PM, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

 

Personally I think, that Corax would the best choice for a "broken" Primarch. Not only due to all the warp/shadow stuff and years of solitary fight but also guilt - the Primaris project could nicely trigger him to do his own thing. Imperium Nihilus is a perfect setting for stories about warlords of ambigous loyalty to the imperial government. But I could settle for Khan giving in so much to the joy of ethernal hunt that he finds himself one step from falling to Slaanesh.

 

Ofcourse it would be the best not to bring more primarchs back, especially that Lion is still underutilized and his return didn't feel impactfull enough for me.

 

However, the little appearance of Corax utterly smacking Daemon Primarch senseless, without being warp tainted kind of prevents this.  He has ascended to embrace his inherent gifts from the emperor and utterly outclassed a Daemon Primarch....who then stated that it wasnt warp powered but was instead him becoming what the Emperor intended.  He was an avenging shadow, and terrified Lorgar who barely escapes.

 

Russ was always written as an acutally very clever warrior who played up to a public image that caused his enemies to both fear and underestimate him.  I would love to see his intelligence and guile become much more prominent in a returned Russ....aged, but unbroken, mellowed outwardly, but still an inner savage....I liked the earlier posters suggestion of  his being like Odin with a single eye, mirroring Magnus....a certain irony.

[lansalt]

12 minutes ago, beefeb said:

Russ was always written as an acutally very clever warrior who played up to a public image that caused his enemies to both fear and underestimate him

He's written as he believing that, but his cleverness was questionable to put it midly.

[Karhedron]

37 minutes ago, lansalt said:

He's written as he believing that, but his cleverness was questionable to put it midly.

 

His only real mistake was trusting Horus when he changed his orders from "capture" to "kill" regarding Magnus. And at that point in time he had every reason to trust the Warmaster. Ashes of Prospero shows that even then, he tried to give Magnus a chance to surrender but did not realise Tzeentch was pulling the strings by that point and Magnus never got the message.

[lansalt]

Having honest intentions it's not the same as being clever. Russ and the SW went from disaster to disaster during the war and were one of the least effective legions. They would have been wiped out without Corax and the RG saving them. In fact, it's interesting how the 40K SW have done a lot more with a small fraction of the old legion resources and without Russ around.

 

So I think a 40K Russ would really need to be different from his 30k version just like the Lion. Wizard Russ is a good idea, but even more interesting/fun twist would be for him to return as a Fat Thor archetype.

Edited October 19 by lansalt

[Marshall Bretton]

2 hours ago, lansalt said:

Having honest intentions it's not the same as being clever. Russ and the SW went from disaster to disaster during the war and were one of the least effective legions. They would have been wiped out without Corax and the RG saving them. In fact, it's interesting how the 40K SW have done a lot more with a small fraction of the old legion resources and without Russ around.

 

So I think a 40K Russ would really need to be different from his 30k version just like the Lion. Wizard Russ is a good idea, but even more interesting/fun twist would be for him to return as a Fat Thor archetype.

 

Have to disagree I'm afraid, the wolves were incredibly effective in the heresy though I admit they did take significant casualties, but given they started as a small legion anyway and took significant casualties at prospero they managed to:

 

Effectively wipe out the thousand sons, removing them as a credible threat for the war.

Kite the alpha legion around for months holding them from the wider conflict and doing some decent damage.

Cause significant distraction to the traitors by being free in the back lines preventing the traitors committing their full force to the front.

Delay a large portion of the traitors from getting to beta Garmon allowing the defences to be reinforced further (yes the raven guard came in at the end and saved them but still an effective action).

Deal a crippling blow to the sons of Horus with their direct assault, killing a decent chunk of the legion, killing quite a few legion commanders, and ultimately dealing a crippling wound to Horus which enable sanguinius to wound him and subsequently the emperor to kill him.

 

Russ was always very much a bigger picture grand strategist, he was prepared to accept significant losses on his own forces to achieve wider strategic victories, even if they weren't his victories.

[beefeb]

3 hours ago, lansalt said:

He's written as he believing that, but his cleverness was questionable to put it midly.

Its written that the Emperor and Malcador both acknowledge that (Master of Mankind, among others mentions it i believe, but cant remember the exact part off the top of my head)....so thats as definitive an endorsement as you can get....in much the same way that the Emperor states that the Lion would never turn traitor.

Russ came the closest of any to actually killing Horus, giving him a considerable wound while having infiltrated onto Horus's very own flagship....very much a feat of a thought out warrior.  Had he not tried to get Horus to turn back to the Emperor and instead continued the fight, he would have won.

 

The Wolves were a very successful legion....their low numbers were from having been put into the most brutal of fights, people wrote them off as savages, who undoubtedly had a savage ferocity and way of waging war...but that doesnt make them a savage...thats a very different thing.

 

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, beefeb said:

Russ was always written as an acutally very clever warrior who played up to a public image that caused his enemies to both fear and underestimate him.  I would love to see his intelligence and guile become much more prominent in a returned Russ....aged, but unbroken, mellowed outwardly, but still an inner savage....I liked the earlier posters suggestion of  his being like Odin with a single eye, mirroring Magnus....a certain irony.

Russ taking on a role similar to Horus during the early and middle Crusade would be amazing.

[lansalt]

@Marshall Bretton  That's... literally the opposite of what happened :

• The SW were fooled into attacking another loyal legion, the TS, and then failed to destroy them and their Primarch. The TS not only then fought in many actions during the Heresy, they eventually became the reason Horus won the Solar War (opening a warp portal bypassing the defences) and Magnus was the main reason behind the Emperor's shield weakening and allowing daemons to appear in the Palace during the end of the Siege.
• After leaving Prospero, the SW were hunted and decimated by the AL. Russ asked the Khan for help (who refused), and had to hide in the Alaxxes nebula. The only reason they got out alive was thanks to a force of Dark Angels loyal to Luther (!)
• Then the SW went to Terra, and after mending their wounds, they helped clean out of traitors a few systems north of Terra (probably the one time when they did some good)
• Russ then refused to follow Dorn's lead, and went into his ill-conceived and telegraphed suicide mission to kill Horus. He failed again, by hesitating at the key moment. Horus psychic wound was healed and the attack only made him fall more deeply into the Chaos Gods control, with zero effect in his combat ability or vulnerability.
• Then a wounded Russ and the SW survivors were hunted and decimated even more by Abbadon leading a combined force of traitors, and had to be rescued by the RG and Corax.
• The SW then became pretty much auxiliaries of the Lion and the DA, helping them purge traitor homeworlds. They didn't had any significant independent action and missed the Siege of Terra.

Seriously, Russ and the 30k SW have probably the worst track record of all the loyalists. Even the Shattered Legions achieved more. It's ironic that the 40k SW idolize that era when they've have been a lot more successful since Russ dissapeared.
 

[Marshall Bretton]

1 hour ago, lansalt said:

@Marshall Bretton  That's... literally the opposite of what happened :

• The SW were fooled into attacking another loyal legion, the TS, and then failed to destroy them and their Primarch. The TS not only then fought in many actions during the Heresy, they eventually became the reason Horus won the Solar War (opening a warp portal bypassing the defences) and Magnus was the main reason behind the Emperor's shield weakening and allowing daemons to appear in the Palace during the end of the Siege.
• After leaving Prospero, the SW were hunted and decimated by the AL. Russ asked the Khan for help (who refused), and had to hide in the Alaxxes nebula. The only reason they got out alive was thanks to a force of Dark Angels loyal to Luther (!)
• Then the SW went to Terra, and after mending their wounds, they helped clean out of traitors a few systems north of Terra (probably the one time when they did some good)
• Russ then refused to follow Dorn's lead, and went into his ill-conceived and telegraphed suicide mission to kill Horus. He failed again, by hesitating at the key moment. Horus psychic wound was healed and the attack only made him fall more deeply into the Chaos Gods control, with zero effect in his combat ability or vulnerability.
• Then a wounded Russ and the SW survivors were hunted and decimated even more by Abbadon leading a combined force of traitors, and had to be rescued by the RG and Corax.
• The SW then became pretty much auxiliaries of the Lion and the DA, helping them purge traitor homeworlds. They didn't had any significant independent action and missed the Siege of Terra.

Seriously, Russ and the 30k SW have probably the worst track record of all the loyalists. Even the Shattered Legions achieved more. It's ironic that the 40k SW idolize that era when they've have been a lot more successful since Russ dissapeared.
 

 

It's the wider impact of all those actions which matters, the grand strategic context, not the low level tactical points. But I will Agreed to disagree :)

 

 

[Orange Knight]

Valrak says that Russ isn't returning with the upcoming Space Wolf refresh.

 

Disappointing if that's the case...

[Indy Techwisp]

31 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Valrak says that Russ isn't returning with the upcoming Space Wolf refresh.

Disappointing if that's the case...

He may not be with the SW refresh because he's arriving later with the End if Edition event (or with the launch of 11th)

[CL_Mission]

Did either of the previous loyalist Primarchs return along side their chapter's codex? My memory is a little fuzzy but didn't Roboute pop up in Psychic Awakening and The Lion came along during Arcs of Omen?

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Valrak says that Russ isn't returning with the upcoming Space Wolf refresh.

 

Disappointing if that's the case...

Good. Enough with the Primarchs. Bring Fulgrim back just to round out the four main Daemon Primarchs and then stop bringing them back. We're done. No more.

 

Also, I'm going to be interested to see how new Wolf Guard Terminators fare. The current kit is a good one, I hope the inevitable replacement is more than just an upgrade sprue for the stock Terminator kit; with how the previous incarnations let you arm each one however you saw fit, it would be disappointing if they ended up just being the standard kit but with a few wolf pelts.

[DeadFingers]

Guilliman was Gathering Storm, not Psychic Awakening, but yeah, neither of the previous Primachs dropped alongside their respective Codex. They were both released just at the tail end of an edition as part of a narrative series.

[Wispy]

28 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Good. Enough with the Primarchs. Bring Fulgrim back just to round out the four main Daemon Primarchs and then stop bringing them back. We're done. No more.

again i think this is meanspirited, spiteful attitude to a fanbase looking forward to the return to their primarch. 

[lansalt]

I have no wolf in this fight, but why is that stement mean spirited? Not everybody in a fanbase wants their primarch to return. Just ask BA guys. There's many narrative or thematic arguments for that position.

[Orange Knight]

51 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Good. Enough with the Primarchs. Bring Fulgrim back just to round out the four main Daemon Primarchs and then stop bringing them back. We're done. No more.

 

 

I disagree with this because it's already started happening.

 

5 Primarchs are now running around in 40k. It makes no different at this point if it's 5, 7 or more.

[crimsondave]

I’m confident Russ will be here at the end of 10th/start of 11th.