Updated Space Wolves Rumours

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Again, no need to be negative about this

There is literally no need for a new Guilliman. His model is fit for purpose, if we must have Primarchs in 40K (personally I'm of the opinion we shouldn't, they should be removed from the game along with all the other superfluous junk that's been added in and anyone who actually misses them should take a hike, but hey, that's just me). There is absolutely no reason to redo the kit. This constant "A kit that's more than 5 years old?!? WE NEED A NEW ONE THAT COSTS TWICE AS MUCH WITH A BIGGER TACTICAL ROCK!!!" nonsense has to stop.

[Orange Knight]

I don't think a 5 Yr old kit needs to be updated.

 

How about a 15yr old kit? 20?

 

Sales eventually slow and a refresh boosts excitement. GW have been doing this for 30+ years.

Edited October 20 by Orange Knight

[Marshal Reinhard]

Nvm. "Not constructive"

Edited October 20 by Marshal Reinhard

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

There is literally no need for a new Guilliman. His model is fit for purpose, if we must have Primarchs in 40K (personally I'm of the opinion we shouldn't, they should be removed from the game along with all the other superfluous junk that's been added in and anyone who actually misses them should take a hike, but hey, that's just me). There is absolutely no reason to redo the kit. This constant "A kit that's more than 5 years old?!? WE NEED A NEW ONE THAT COSTS TWICE AS MUCH WITH A BIGGER TACTICAL ROCK!!!" nonsense has to stop.

I don't think anyone is saying a seven year old model needs replacing but I think it's safe to say at some point Guilliman will get a new model.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

All popular models eventually get refreshed or updated. We are about to get the THIRD Logan Grimnar.

 

And Calgar is already on his third iteration.

 

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Cool models, mostly

 

Exactly. The lore has always been there to support the models and GW have always been perfectly open about this.

Edited October 20 by Karhedron

[Marshal Rohr]

Of all the Primarchs to return, Russ was the one with the cleanest and most fleshed out path to return to the setting without the disaster that came from the way they actually did it, so it’s odd to see people push back against it as “breaking the lore”. Russ left with explicit instructions to prepare for his return. Corax had something similar, but as the chief “super cool unique” chapter more people purchase Space Wolves in a single year than have played Raven Guard their entire existence. It doesn’t matter anymore because of how gross the 8th edition lore disaster is, but Russ has always been the main Primarch that could’ve returned to 40K. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. It’s sad it’ll be some capri wearing werewolf and not the absolute king we got for the Heresy Russ. 

[Karhedron]

18 hours ago, Joe said:

• Hastings old Primarch release order (before Magnus had even leaked) was entirely accurate until the Lion released (previously, Russ occupied this spot); it's entirely possible Russ and the Lion got mixed up rumour-wise, or that other changes have gone on behind the scenes relating to the Space Wolves.

 

This one always intrigued me. Hasting was batting at 100% until the Lion came out, not bad for a 7+ year old rumour. My recollection is that Hastings saw concept art rather than finished models so it would be very easy for the Lion to jump the queue.

 

One reason that the Devs gave for brining back Guilliman first was that it was relatively easy from a story POV. His location was known and always included a possible resurrection clause. The Lion was in exactly the same situation, the only difference was that it was not known in-universe where he was. Just us with an omniscient 3rd person perspective.

 

That being the case, it is probably not surprising that they decided to follow Bobby G with the Lion as it required relatively little back-story. For any other Primarch to return would beg the question of what they had been doing for the last 9000 years. My guess is GW want their return to be the story and not to have to spend too much time filling in the backstory.

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Of all the Primarchs to return, Russ was the one with the cleanest and most fleshed out path to return to the setting without the disaster that came from the way they actually did it, so it’s odd to see people push back against it as “breaking the lore”. Russ left with explicit instructions to prepare for his return. Corax had something similar, but as the chief “super cool unique” chapter more people purchase Space Wolves in a single year than have played Raven Guard their entire existence. It doesn’t matter anymore because of how gross the 8th edition lore disaster is, but Russ has always been the main Primarch that could’ve returned to 40K. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. It’s sad it’ll be some capri wearing werewolf and not the absolute king we got for the Heresy Russ. 

I think Vulkan has one of the cleanest returns that could be wrapped in a campaign. No so sure about Corax though since when he left for cigarettes he just went "Nevermore". Not much to go on to come back there.

 

And I don't think Wulfen Russ is a given. I mean before the Lion returned did anyone think he was going to come back as a tired dad?

[Karhedron]

The return of many of the Primarchs could be quite easy as several were either lost in the warp or similar where time runs differently. Corax was last seen kicking Lorgar's golden behind in the EoT and the Khan was last seen heading into the webway. Both could return tomorrow with only a few days passing from their point of view. Russ vanished on a quest and could return whenever it is complete.

 

Dorn and Vulkan are a bit harder as they are both "missing, presumed dead". If they turn up alive then a bit more storytelling is required but not too much. Ferrus and Sanguinius are both confirmed dead and their return would be a lot harder to handle in a satisfying way. It would also have big implications for their sons in 40K. If Sangy returns, would the Death Company still be a thing? Would it cure the Black Rage or make it worse?

[HeadlessCross]

I'm all for Primarchs returning as long as they're absurdly points expensive and worth it. There's no reason Mortarion should be 300 points. Make him 500 and worth it. 

[LSM]

9 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

...No so sure about Corax though since when he left for cigarettes he just went "Nevermore". Not much to go on to come back there...

 

Yeah.

 

According to the Index Astartes articles of the early 2000s: Corax gene-tampered with the Raven Guard, permanently destabilising their gene-seed. At the end of the Heresy, he personally executed all the monsters he had created, then locked himself in his tower to pray for forgiveness. A year to the day he emerged, haggard and wild eyed, leaving alone on a path to the Eye of Terror, saying only 'Nevermore...'

 

I always took it to be him going a little nuts and trying to find redemption in a suicide mission.

 

In Gav Thorpe's Shadow of the Past he's a humanoid shadow creature, that can break into an entire flock of ravens. Also described as "a black pool" that can seep around "like oil". A "tenebrous mass", "dozens of lighting fangs opened in the cloud". "Like tar bubbling from a pit, seeping blackness" "heaved itself together into the approximation of a human form" "tenebrous wings flowed from its back" "arms ending in spear-like talons." "The daemon fluctuated, its smoky exterior becoming like a blizzard" "forks of black lightning leapt from an outstretched hand". Eventually, he coalesces into his normal 30k appearance, but later breaks into a flock of ravens again.

 

He tells Lorgar that he is vengeance incarnate, and that he swore to destroy all Chaos taint from the galaxy. Which... good luck?

[ZeroWolf]

I know they subtlety added some new lore regarding Crovax, saying he's holed up back in his tower now (it's in that first founding book, valrak covered it as well when he looked at all the new lore in it.)  Seems GW may be giving them some wiggle room should they ever want to bring him back.

[TheMawr]

One thing though is that for us the setting is the total sum of GWs 40k, BL and FWs Horus Heresy, the same isn't true for 40ks creative leads.

People seem to assume there is a single overlord James workshop in control that connects all the dots... but all the biggest issues hail from the fact there isn't.

 

Personally I think there won't be other primarchs beyond the chaos 4, guilleman, russ, the lion and just maybe Dorn ( but only when somehow tied with Templars) not because it's right or wrong.. but simply because they are more HH subjects than 40k ones, not in the setting, but in the head of the creative leads.

I do think eventually the horus heresy will get to plastic primarchs though.

 

More ontopic, this same thing is the case with russ return.. it might be obvious to say, but he will be what the GW creatives want it to be.. and its very unlikely they take consideration of what Horus heresy or BL did. The Fandom is also divided enough, its anecdotal but I know many more 40k fans that like the wolfyness in space wolves than I know fans that know about the existence of this forum... its unclear and wholly subjective to know what the most fans want.

 

I often hear people say here "thank god GW toned down on the wolfyness for space wolves" but based on what ? From GW we have had two characters since 8th edition and the last batch of releases before that includes wulfen, santasled etc. The thought is mostly based on horus heresy releases wich are completely different teams. We have literally no idea where the GW creatives want to go currently, we will find out soon, but I suspect it isn't that far from where they where before 8th.

[Karhedron]

The latest Blood Angel release might give some clues. It was more restrained than their last set of releases with the Sanguinary Guard losing their wings and the artificer being now an impression of a muscled form rather than anatomically correct down to the nipples. If the same philosophy prevails with Wolves, I would expect Space Vikings with tooth necklaces and a few bits of fur decoration rather than leaning as heavily on the Wolfy McWolfFace aesthetic as they did in 7th.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Of all the Primarchs to return, Russ was the one with the cleanest and most fleshed out path to return to the setting without the disaster that came from the way they actually did it, so it’s odd to see people push back against it as “breaking the lore”. Russ left with explicit instructions to prepare for his return. Corax had something similar, but as the chief “super cool unique” chapter more people purchase Space Wolves in a single year than have played Raven Guard their entire existence. It doesn’t matter anymore because of how gross the 8th edition lore disaster is, but Russ has always been the main Primarch that could’ve returned to 40K. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. It’s sad it’ll be some capri wearing werewolf and not the absolute king we got for the Heresy Russ. 

 

The Khan is still doing doughnuts in the webway, which he entered via a normal webway gate.

He could literally be brought back in any random Aeldari or Drukhari engagement with no questions asked.

[Marshal Rohr]

Just now, Indy Techwisp said:

 

The Khan is still doing doughnuts in the webway, which he entered via a normal webway gate.

He could literally be brought back in any random Aeldari or Drukhari engagement with no questions asked.

Is that real lore or is that Reddit and Grifter lore? Index Astartes explicitly states it might be hearsay but Russ’ disappearance is a direct testimony from someone who was there. 

[Karhedron]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Is that real lore or is that Reddit and Grifter lore? Index Astartes explicitly states it might be hearsay but Russ’ disappearance is a direct testimony from someone who was there. 

 

Here is the official lore

 

Quote

Jaghatai fought alongside his White Scars for another 70 standard years following the end of the Horus Heresy, eventually disappearing in 084.M31 when he travelled into the Maelstrom. Jaghatai is believed to have been in pursuit of the Drukhari who had savaged Chogoris following the Battle of Corusil V with his 1st Brotherhood when he went through a Warp Gate into the Drukhari portion of the Webway, ultimately vanishing forever.

 

The White Scars believe the Khan is still alive somewhere within the Webway and will one day return to the Chapter in a time of great need. As a result of their Primarch's disappearance, the White Scars hold a particularly savage grudge against the Drukhari and will gladly seek out any opportunity to make war upon those sadistic aliens.

 

Edited October 20 by Karhedron

[Indy Techwisp]

There's also this "Remembrancer Artwork" from the 2023 First Founding book of Khan riding a giant horse into a webway gate.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

56 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Here is the official lore

 

 

In index Astartes the article indicates his ship was probably just lost in the warp. Doesn’t get more official than index Astartes. 

Edited October 20 by Marshal Rohr

[Crimson Longinus]

21 hours ago, Redcomet said:

It really hasn’t. The demon primarchs have always been there and the 2 loyalists really haven’t had all that much impact, besides Guillimans booting the Imperium into gear and organizing the crusade that saved it. Things are more dire now than they have ever been in 40ks history. 

 

Daemon primarchs have always existed in the lore, so they're not really "coming back" we just have them in the game. They don't bother me lore-wise. though it is rather silly how common they're on the tabletop. Basically every Thousans Sons army is led by this one unique being.

 

But it is not about "things being dire," that's not what gimdark is. We used to have a horrific rotting dystopian hellstate. The primarchs were barely remembered legends of a mythic and long gone golden age. There may have been stories prophesying their return, but those were just to illustrate the false hopes of the people living in these terrible times, as real as king Arthur returning to sort out Brexit. Now we have this totalitarian empire led by shiny and heroic smurf demigod that has endless but pointless battles against his demon brothers to relive their soap opera daddy issues from marginally better prequel. At best it is puerile, at worst it is accidentally glorifying totalitarianism.

 

I used to love 40K lore, but I despise what it has become.

 

 

Edited October 20 by Crimson Longinus

[BitsHammer]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

The return of many of the Primarchs could be quite easy as several were either lost in the warp or similar where time runs differently. Corax was last seen kicking Lorgar's golden behind in the EoT and the Khan was last seen heading into the webway. Both could return tomorrow with only a few days passing from their point of view. Russ vanished on a quest and could return whenever it is complete.

 

Dorn and Vulkan are a bit harder as they are both "missing, presumed dead". If they turn up alive then a bit more storytelling is required but not too much. Ferrus and Sanguinius are both confirmed dead and their return would be a lot harder to handle in a satisfying way. It would also have big implications for their sons in 40K. If Sangy returns, would the Death Company still be a thing? Would it cure the Black Rage or make it worse?

Vulkan is immortal though and is waiting for his sons to complete the easter egg hunt he prepared for them while being so proud of their effort.

 

More seriously it's GW. They'll make a (hopefully cool) model then work out how to justify it after the fact.

[Crimson Longinus]

22 hours ago, Wispy said:

again i think this is meanspirited, spiteful attitude to a fanbase looking forward to the return to their primarch. 

 

There is literally a whole separate game build around this primarch smash-up. It is not mean spirited to not to wish 40K to be turned into the same, in the process totally destroying the tone of the setting. 

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

There is literally a whole separate game build around this primarch smash-up. It is not mean spirited to not to wish 40K to be turned into the same, in the process totally destroying the tone of the setting. 

Genie is out if the bottle so it's too late to say it shouldn't happen. It can and is happening.

 

At this point it feels a bit like yelling at clouds to worry about. Especially when there are so many other things that are causing problems with the game than if someone gets their special names character in 40k or not.

[Indy Techwisp]

47 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

In index Astartes the article indicates his ship was probably just lost in the warp. Doesn’t get more official than index Astartes. 

 

Index Astartes is a Horus Heresy book from 6yrs ago tho.

Other, more recent publications (the First Founding book from 2023, for instance) use the "He got trapped chasing Drukhari into the webway." lore.

[Evil Eye]

18 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Genie is out if the bottle so it's too late to say it shouldn't happen. It can and is happening.

 

That doesn't mean it's good or that it should have happened and shouldn't be reversed and corrected. If GW can retcon the setting into a complete parody of its former self they can un-retcon it, sweep this whole mess under the rug and pretend it never happened.

"B-But the sales! Look at the sales!"
 

Yes, and we all know McDonalds is the best food in the world, that's why it sells so well.