Updated Space Wolves Rumours

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Evil Eye said:

That doesn't mean it's good or that it should have happened and shouldn't be reversed and corrected. If GW can retcon the setting into a complete parody of its former self they can un-retcon it, sweep this whole mess under the rug and pretend it never happened.

"B-But the sales! Look at the sales!"
 

Yes, and we all know McDonalds is the best food in the world, that's why it sells so well.

GW isn't going to reverse course on something that makes money. Might as well go yell at the tide for coming in.

[Crimson Longinus]

16 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Genie is out if the bottle so it's too late to say it shouldn't happen. It can and is happening.

We could still have the Inquisition to kill Guilliman for being a puppet created by Xenos necromancy and DA kill Lion for trying to forgive the fallen. That would be proper grimdark!

 

Or if we want to shake up things, then Guilliman can survive, and retreat to Ultramar, starting a civil war known as Ultima Heresy!* If these demigods need to be in the setting, then they should actually shake things up, but do so without destroying the grimdark.

 

* Hell, it would be good game-wise too. So many people play Imperium, that half the games are Imperium vs Imperium, and this gives us a proper justification!

 

16 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

At this point it feels a bit like yelling at clouds to worry about. Especially when there are so many other things that are causing problems with the game than if someone gets their special names character in 40k or not.

I don't think utterly destroying the tone of 40K lore is minor thing. Nothing else GW has ever done has made me seriously contemplate giving up on the franchise. This has.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

If GW can retcon the setting into a complete parody of its former self they can un-retcon it, sweep this whole mess under the rug and pretend it never happened.

By "un-retcon it", do you mean just... not making it modern 40k?

 

Because I assure you, going back to an edition of the game that predates the average 40k player by nearly a decade isn't going to help anything.

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

We could still have the Inquisition to kill Guilliman for being a puppet created by Xenos necromancy and DA kill Lion for trying to forgive the fallen. That would be proper grimdark!

 

Or if we want to shake up things, then Guilliman can survive, and retreat to Ultramar, starting a civil war known as Ultima Heresy!* If these demigods need to be in the setting, then they should actually shake things up, but do so without destroying the grimdark.

 

* Hell, it would be good game-wise too. So many people play Imperium, that half the games are Imperium vs Imperium, and this gives us a proper justification!

 

I don't think utterly destroying the tone of 40K lore is minor thing. Nothing else GW has ever done has made me seriously contemplate giving up on the franchise. This has.

Sorry but GW isn't rolling back seven year old fluff to make a minority of customers happy.

 

I have bigger concerns with them turning the wargame into a board game personally than them bringing back a tall boy with chronic depression.

[Evil Eye]

2 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

By "un-retcon it", do you mean just... not making it modern 40k?

 

Because I assure you, going back to an edition of the game that predates the average 40k player by nearly a decade isn't going to help anything.

It's going to help 40K actually be good again, financial success be damned. If that chases away the lowest-common-denominator fanbase GW are cultivating, all the better.

[Flaherty]

I'd like a new Roboute and Lion El'Jonson model every year. Minimally, alternate them. They're the posterboys for the posterboy faction. I admire GW's desire to broaden the offerings, but I'd much rather the design time and tooling cost devoted to the the 6th riff on some tertiary AoS ork faction be directed towards the flagship product line.

 

Give us a regal Roboute and a charging Lion, in addition to Russ, Jagahti, and Corvus. I have to believe they'd sell better than an expansion pack for Necromunda or another uninspired Blood Bowl team.

[Evil Eye]

Just now, BitsHammer said:

Yeah this doesn't feel like the thread for your personal grievances for something that has been going on for almost a decade. Can we get back to rumors instead of trying to discuss the merits of GW's releases?

Weren't the rumours specifically saying Russ WASN'T going to be part of the release?

 

Now if you're quite done backseat modding...what more is there to discuss? Kits will be replaced by mediocre Primaris versions, if the Blood Angels release was anything to go by. Maybe we'll get Thunderwolf Cavalry BUT PRIMARIS, which will be even more ridiculous looking than the current kit but people will excuse it because the Marines have longer legs.

[Evil Eye]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Snip

 

Your strawman is noted.

[Crimson Longinus]

3 minutes ago, Flaherty said:

I'd like a new Roboute and Lion El'Jonson model every year. Minimally, alternate them. They're the posterboys for the posterboy faction. I admire GW's desire to broaden the offerings, but I'd much rather the design time and tooling cost devoted to the the 6th riff on some tertiary AoS ork faction be directed towards the flagship product line.

 

Perhaps we could do both? We could have a new big and monstrous Beast Snagga boss character, and new Guilliman sculpt as a corpse on its base!

[BitsHammer]

I don't see GW keeping firstborn aesthetics around considering even Sanguinor is wearing MkX now.

 

And with Logan going to a smaller model overall it does feel like they need a good sized centerpiece, but I suspect that they might pull a Dark Angels and just make the chapter master the focal point and quietly pull Bjorn off the table for now.

[Crimson Longinus]

9 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Then you can have all the super important old lore like Space Marines being just conscripted humans, females being in the Space Marine legions, Lorgar and Leman Rus fighting side by side as random named Infantry Sargents, the Ultramarines having a Half-Eldar Chief Librarian and Obiwan-Sherlock Cleusseu!

I mean, since the new Lore is clearly an issue, this should be fine right?

 

Half-Eldar chief librarian is the only thing I have an issue about these. RT marine lore was better, we should go back to that. They were grim gene-modded penal legionaries, instead of shiny and heroic space knights, and primarchs were just important marine leaders, not embarassing giant superheroes. And of course female marines would be and excellent development.

 

Edited October 20 by Crimson Longinus

[Indy Techwisp]

3 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Half-Eldar chief librarian is the only thing I have an issue about these. RT marine lore was better, we should go back to that. They were grim gene-modded penal legionaries, instead of shiny and heroic space knights, and primarchs were just important marine leaders, not embarassing giant superheroes. And of course female marines would be and excellent development.

 

Fun fact about that Eldar:

He's technically back in the lore again.

Guilliman has an Aeldari Farseer in his Retinue (Sanctioned Xenos, same as Rogue Traders can have them) who shares a name with that Half-Eldar Librarian.

[Crimson Longinus]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Fun fact about that Eldar:

He's technically back in the lore again.

Guilliman has an Aeldari Farseer in his Retinue (Sanctioned Xenos, same as Rogue Traders can have them) who shares a name with that Half-Eldar Librarian.

I hadn't heard about that, but that's the sort of funny callback I can appreciate. Though this definitely is more proof that Guilliman is a xenos puppet and the Inquisition needs to kill him ASAP!

[Wispy]

Y'all too much.

 

12 hours ago, beefeb said:

  If anyone could fix the golden throne it would be vulkan.

A sitcom where Vulkan fixes up the joint while being berated by his estranged, elderly and disabled father is exactly what this miserly community needs and deserves.

[Indy Techwisp]

10 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I don't see GW keeping firstborn aesthetics around considering even Sanguinor is wearing MkX now.

 

And with Logan going to a smaller model overall it does feel like they need a good sized centerpiece, but I suspect that they might pull a Dark Angels and just make the chapter master the focal point and quietly pull Bjorn off the table for now.

 

While I agree that Spacewolves are gonna be moved over to Mk X now, I'd wager their "Wolf Vibes" from 40k are something they'd keep at least some of.

I could see GW trying to do the Wolf Helmets again for a 40k Special Unit, but more generally I'm expecting Fur Capes, Teeth and an increased appearance of Frost Weapons on their unique units.

 

As for Bjorn, it could go either way really.

But with them removing the older Dreadnaught kits, GW could decide that Bjorn is important enough to the Space Wolves' lore to update with the range refresh.

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

While I agree that Spacewolves are gonna be moved over to Mk X now, I'd wager their "Wolf Vibes" from 40k are something they'd keep at least some of.

I could see GW trying to do the Wolf Helmets again for a 40k Special Unit, but more generally I'm expecting Fur Capes, Teeth and an increased appearance of Frost Weapons on their unique units.

 

As for Bjorn, it could go either way really.

But with them removing the older Dreadnaught kits, GW could decide that Bjorn is important enough to the Space Wolves' lore to update with the range refresh.

Yeah I agree they will keep some of their current flair. Like probably a single pelt cape, maybe some helmets that have runes on them, and maybe some frost style weapons that just count as power weapons. And maybe a wolf head helmet.

 

And I could see specialist dreadnoughts being a thing for next edition. Replace the Ven Dread kit with a character Dread kit perhaps (Captain and Librarian dual kit perhaps) and then maybe we could see named character dreads come back as well then.

[Blindhamster]

im imagining they'll return more to their 3rd edition style, which was a little less OTT for the wolfiness.

[Crimson Longinus]

Space Wolf release is something I'm looking forwards to. Between DA and Templars we already have an excellent selection for knightly space marines in primaris size, but SW have quite different aesthetic. They're good source for more feral space marine bits, which is something my homebrew chapter, Void Hunters, could use. 

[Karhedron]

36 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Back on topic for the thread at hand, Valrak says that Leman IS NOT going to be part of the Space Wolves range in their 10th Ed release.

Since that frees up a major character spot (and makes the entire "Why primarch coming back" redundant since he isn't yet), I'm going to suggest that maybe Bjorn the Fell Handed is going be be the Space Wolves "Centerpiece Model" for the update, complete with a custom Fenris-Designed Dreadnaught just for him.

 

The Blood Angels didn't really get a big centrepiece model for their refresh so there is no reason to assume the Wolves will automatically get one. A Redemptor-sized Bjorn would be pretty cool but I am more interested in seeing updated versions of characters like Njal.

[ZeroWolf]

Yeah I don't think SW will get a centre piece model (though if Logan is on a big base, wouldn't he count? Assuming the wolves are sharing the base with him?)

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

I hadn't heard about that, but that's the sort of funny callback I can appreciate. Though this definitely is more proof that Guilliman is a xenos puppet and the Inquisition needs to kill him ASAP!

 

I think you need to read more of the lore. You can't declare old lore better than the new, or visa versa, if you don't really know what has been written in recent years.

 

I'm a 28 year veteran of the hobby, and the GW IP in particular, and all I can advise is to avoid falling into the Grognard stereotype.

This is something I myself have to wrestle with from time to time...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ZeroWolf said:

Yeah I don't think SW will get a centre piece model (though if Logan is on a big base, wouldn't he count? Assuming the wolves are sharing the base with him?)

 

Logan could be similar to Helbrecht.

 

I also think that a new Redemptor Bjorn could be the potential centrepiece, as was mentioned above.

[Marshal Rohr]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Index Astartes is a Horus Heresy book from 6yrs ago tho.

Other, more recent publications (the First Founding book from 2023, for instance) use the "He got trapped chasing Drukhari into the webway." lore.

Index Astartes was written over a decade before Betrayal buddy. It’s the real deal by the OGs, not a marketing gimmick that doesn’t even match up with the info they released the same month in White Dwarf. This is besides the point anyway, Jaghatai was never written to be introduced back into 40K as directly as Russ was where it’s been set up since the 90s/00s.  

Edited October 20 by Marshal Rohr

[phandaal]

11 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The point is that you are supposed to be a good consumer and not ask too many questions. Just buy the new product and be happy. Even if it is Russ on a flying sledge pulled by Freki and Geri.

 

"The lore has always been unreliable and changing" is my favorite of the new ways to sweep criticism under the rug. Combine that with "the lore was stagnant and had to change," which is even better because they are mutually exclusive, and you have an unassailable mental fortress.

 

The usuals may apply their grey minus signs to this post now. 

[Crimson Longinus]

23 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I think you need to read more of the lore. You can't declare old lore better than the new, or visa versa, if you don't really know what has been written in recent years.

 

I mean I follow it, though I don't have that much interest in Black Library stuff. I read way too few books these days, so when I have time to do so, I can generally find something more appealing. But it really is not the details of the new lore I have issues with, it is the overall tone.

 

23 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm a 28 year veteran of the hobby, and the GW IP in particular, and all I can advise is to avoid falling into the Grognard stereotype.

This is something I myself have to wrestle with from time to time...

 

About same amount of years for me, but I'm hardly a grognard in the sense you imply. I am not hung up on details, I like the primaris quite a bit, if not the exact way they were introduced, and have been advocated for female marines.

 

The issues with the new lore I have are about the changing and distorting of the core identity of the setting from dystopian satire with dark humour where there are no heroes and life is cheap, to one which warps around shiny immortal demigods, and their petty daddy issues. Terrible self inflicted decline has been reversed by triumphant return of the heroes of the long lost mythic past. It has been twisted from laughing to terribleness of the Imperium to glorifying it. It has become uncomfortable, and primarchs, Guilliman in particular, are the most obvious example of this. No longer is Imperium led by a shadowy cabal of corrupt overlords, now it is led by one tragic yet heroic noble demigod. Imperium is evil. Like super cartoony evil. You cannot have that, and the leaders to be heroic supermen, marines to be noble defenders of humanity without it sending rather terrible message. I wish 40K could go back to being satire instead of whatever this current state is.

 

[Dagoth Ur]

I hate to disrupt the ever-entertaining organ measuring regarding aesthetic sensibilities and seniority in the hobby, but have any more concrete infos crystallized since p1? I'm particularly curious as to how/if the wolf guard terminator kit will get an update. It's a very versatile kit which I'd love to see updated, yet the lack of bespoke BA Assault Terminator kit update has me a tad worried (Though it may also have been held back for the eventual generic Assault Terminator update, so who knows).