Autumn 2024 Balance Update

[N1SB]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/g5ot1app/warhammer-40000-balance-update-points-changes-are-here-with-the-new-munitorum-field-manual/

 

So far, I'm seeing some things I expected to go up in points, this is NOT a complete list, just things I noticed:

 

• Castigators, very popular among Sororitas, UP in cost
• Deathwing Knights, definitely an OP unit, UP in cost
• Imperial Knights, Canis Rex UP in cost
• The Necron Monolith way too overcosted now at 400 pts

 

Time-out.  I play Necrons this ed, ppl are still spamming 6 Wraiths + Technomancer, I'm surprised that's not been up-costed.

 

• Meganobz went DOWN in cost, but only marginally
• Biologis, Eradicators, Assault Intercessor w/ Jump Packs AND Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs all UP in cost
• Thunderwolf Cavalry UP in cost
• Magnus and Mutalith Vortex Beast UP in points cost
• Angron and World Eaters Executioner UP in points cost

 

I've listed out SOME of the obvious ones, like all the above I kinda expected some sort of change, the direction makes sense.

 

Listing out the obvious ones because I know many of our Fraters and Sororitas are on their phone.  C'tan untouched :D

Edited October 16 by N1SB

[Xenith]

Here we go again...

 

Did they just kill Thousand Sons? Just As I'm painting up Magnus as well. 

Edited October 16 by Xenith

[Emperor Ming]

10 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Did they just kill Thousand Sons? Just As I'm painting up Magnus as well. 

Same with sisters

 

Few changes to cards, rules faqs etc as well

[N1SB]

14 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Here we go again...

 

Did they just kill Thousand Sons? Just As I'm painting up Magnus as well. 

 

We were JUST talking about this in your thread, weren't we?

[Emperor Ming]

No reductions for agents is just

 

Glad I didn't even go there

[Indy Techwisp]

OK, so.

Keeping in mind that to Games Workshop "Overperforming" just means "Overused in armies" and Thousand Sons' Index Detachment and most of our Faction's power is Backloaded into what generates Cabal Points:

Evwry single non-Tzaangor character went up, so Thousand Sons now have no Non-Tzaangor characters below 100pts.

Magnus (who is practically required for the army to function) went up again.

The Infernal Master and the Generic Sorc now cost the same and both went up, so we simply no longer have a "cheep character" role (besides Tzaangor Shaman, but Tzaangors don't give Cabal Points. Wonder why they're not "Overperforming".)

5 man Rubrics, our most efficient Cabal Point unit, went up, but 10 man went down, because no-one in Comp was paying the cost of 2 Rubrics for 1 units worth of Cabal Points.

Mutalith Vortex Beast went back up. Still no clue why it went down last time tbh.

Oh, and Scarab Occult Terminators weren't touched, because GW really want you to use them, but not enough to drop their points apparently.

And finally a unit of 3 Tzaangor Enlightened went up as well.

 

Whelp, see you all in the 38% bracket until December!

[Wormwoods]

I get it, but I'll never not dislike when a unit per-model cost changes depending on unit size. Jump Intercessors now being better value in a 10-man, eugh. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Quick side tangent, but haven't Orks just been Pubstomping since their Codex released?

Did the Priah Nexus deck really affect them that badly?

[Maritn]

2 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

I get it, but I'll never not dislike when a unit per-model cost changes depending on unit size. Jump Intercessors now being better value in a 10-man, eugh. 

Well, you've got only one power fist.

[Naryn]

They really have no idea what to do with Thousand Sons, do they?

[TrawlingCleaner]

TS and Sisters points increases were needed in a competitve setting, same for Dark Eldar and Dark Angels. For most lists, you're dropping a character or maybe a small unit? Orks and Eldar got some points decreases which is nice, maybe not helping Orks that much.

It's interesting to see that they're decreasing points on larger units and penalising some units that were MSU spammed.

 

What they really need is to remove snowflake chapter's access to the base detatchments and to give some outperforming units a seperate points cost based on which chapter is taking them. Jump Intercessors should be more expensive for BA etc. They've already done this for BT vehicles and for units being taken outside of IA armies

[Indy Techwisp]

8 minutes ago, Naryn said:

They really have no idea what to do with Thousand Sons, do they?

Our index was written by the design guy who keep wasting our Factions design space with Brayherd.

We got some nice little points so we can still cast some actual spells, but it's becoming very clear GW intended this to be a ribbon and not the linchpin of the entire army.

 

ETA: Stuff like this balance change is what's making me concerned that we're gonna get neutered in our Codex for the crime of actually playing our army rule.

Well, that plus my paranoia that the recent Dark Mechanicum stuff for LI means what we were assuming was TSons Psy-Automa is actually Dark Mech Automa and we're just getting any new Tzaangors AoS 4th gives to Disciples of Tzeentch.

Edited October 16 by Indy Techwisp

[Orange Knight]

Space Marines being hit with point increases is simply wild considering how badly they perform. I understand that some unique chapters are still able to get results, but the point increases and penalties should be aimed at the unique units and detachments that work well with those particular chapters, and not at the generic options.

 

Reivers at 75 actually makes them interesting, keep in mind they can deepstrike. A cheap and cheeky unit that arrives turn 3 to contest or steal an objective has play.

 

The loyalist Primarchs are both 285 which is a low number considering their cost in the past, but they still aren't really worth taking in the current game. I think GW needs to re-work them so they function more like Abaddon - joining units and being able to utilise transports. Abaddon is the same size and has the same 60mm base too, so no reason not to!

 

Terminators get another point reduction, and their "elite" status continues to be eroded. GW made a big mistake by keeping their wargear so traditional in a wargame that continues to reward specialists ahead of generalists. They need way more firepower across all models in the unit to make them threatening.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just a quick sanity check.

Do any other armies consistently get hit with nerfs for playing their army rule?

 

It really feels like this is a TSons specific problem, since whenever a points update rolls around you can basically just say everything with Cabal Points goes up as a blanket statement and you're usually correct.

[Wormwoods]

Bad news, friends:

 

[DemonGSides]

38 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Just a quick sanity check.

Do any other armies consistently get hit with nerfs for playing their army rule?

 

It really feels like this is a TSons specific problem, since whenever a points update rolls around you can basically just say everything with Cabal Points goes up as a blanket statement and you're usually correct.

 

 I mean, yeah. The IG were slaughtered at one point for their inherent rules.

 

I don't think the TSons increases are that crazy. Maybe Magnus is now a bit pricier than he should be, but everything else feels fair. You used to be able to jam 12 sorcerors into a 1k list, which is kinda nutty with their rules. At 2k that's a lot of free power that no other faction has similar access to.

 

Considering there was the impression Orks have been good (they havent since a few months after their codex when they got slaughtered) might mean it's worth taking a step back and waiting until more in the know people break down these changes. 

 

Haven't gone through all the changes yet,  but I really wish if they were gonna update indexes that they'd list out exactly what those changes are.  I'll probably wait til Goonhammer puts out their comprehensive list of changes and do my judging based on that.  Edit: seems that they have, and though they call TSons Big Losers, the actual text seems pretty even handed. Considering how competitively strong the faction was, I don't disagree with many of their thoughts. 

 

Sanguinary Guard at 135 are cooler than their codex points, but the DC seems a bit expensive for what they do. 

Edited October 16 by DemonGSides

[Robbienw]

I think you mean Autumn.

[chapter master 454]

Well...space marines got their last bastion of viability nuked out of the game. RIP

Though Tau finally got their broken enhancement fixed...to being a 50/50 CP generator when using a strat on the unit...welp it's still useless...though now we have 65 point kroot action monkeys now...65 points...10 bodies...kind of stupid really.

 

My list for Dark Angels won't change much bar just dropping a squad of scouts. To note GW, people were taking 3 of the knights because there wasn't much left within space marines to work with. Heck even black templars catching smoke for their 20 bricks crusaders.

Suppose for interest lets see. Invictor warsuit to 120 was it...that's dead cheap so maybe something to work with...reivers to 75 but at this point they at best will be deep strike monkeys.

 

Main point of interest is the fact we are getting a dataslate update this year. The article notes that and they mention giving some adjustments for Codex Space Marines...lets hope its good!

[Borbarad]

Anyone noticing any changes in the index documents? For some reason many of them seem to be updated today but i can’t spot anything 

[Bouargh]

6 hours ago, Xenith said:

Here we go again...

 

Did they just kill Thousand Sons? Just As I'm painting up Magnus as well. 

 

Wasn´t the headline paragraph a clear annoucement?

"Put down your dice and tape measure, stop priming these miniatures [...]"

I am not that paranoid (or am I?) but I interpreted it as a clear warning. OK, emphasis is mine....

 

5 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

It really feels like this is a TSons specific problem, since whenever a points update rolls around you can basically just say everything with Cabal Points goes up as a blanket statement and you're usually correct.

 

I agree.

 

5 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

No reductions for agents is just

 

Probably a good sign that the Codex is perfectly balanced and written...  Or... That it did not passed enough time to gather the sacrosanta data required to pretend balancing anything: you cannot correct what is not (yet) measured. But the debate about supposed (or not) design process potential intrinsinc weakness does not need being reignited. 

 

Generally speaking, this balance is interesting at first and superficial view. It looks like most of the indexes and codices are closely reaching a good point of equilibrium and start being as stable a a yonker, meaning that adjustments tend to be at the margin. Sure it hurts when such a margin is a whole army list (1000S....) but I find it comforting that the extend of changes is not as wide and profound it used to be in some previous update. Let´s see latter f this 1st impression is right or wrong. Devil is always in the details and detailled examination of Datasheet may reveal other secrets...

Edited October 16 by Bouargh

[StrangerOrders]

I hate to judge the "No Chains, No Masters, I demand to run BT in the most counter-intuitive to their identity way possible" folks but the more I see of 10th the more it seems that the "infinite flexibility of SM Detachments + Unit Volume + Divergent Chapters + Burning Hatred of Restrictions" model seems toxic.

 

It seems units tend to get slapped universally for doing well in very specific builds while at the same time someone at GW seems to be BT-Level hateful of restrictions, no matter how sensible. I am not sure how on earth you are supposed to balance for that but it seems kind of insane.

 

I mean, I get that GW seems to think that everyone wants their super special list to not make any level of sense for their chapter while paradoxically pricing as if people will literally only play the most optimal list humanly possible... well I actually don't. They need to pick a lane. 

 

At this point, and I say this as someone who primarily uses Divergent chapters, I'd rather go back to the old format/what the cult legions do.

Edited October 16 by StrangerOrders

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Reivers at 75 actually makes them interesting, keep in mind they can deepstrike. A cheap and cheeky unit that arrives turn 3 to contest or steal an objective has play.

 

Yes, they are now getting into the realm that they can compete with Scouts as cheap action monkeys.

[FarFromSam]

Bummer.  On par for 10th.  

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Just a quick sanity check.

Do any other armies consistently get hit with nerfs for playing their army rule?

Only when they play it in a way the designer’s didn’t intend. The internal playtesting probably showed it took a few turns to build up Cabal Points for big effects with the trade off of not using Cabal Points in earlier turns. Then the reality of list building happened, we see lists built to maximize Cabal Points, and the designers scramble to keep it under control without artificially regulating the mechanic. 

[DemonGSides]

4 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Only when they play it in a way the designer’s didn’t intend. The internal playtesting probably showed it took a few turns to build up Cabal Points for big effects with the trade off of not using Cabal Points in earlier turns. Then the reality of list building happened, we see lists built to maximize Cabal Points, and the designers scramble to keep it under control without artificially regulating the mechanic. 

 

That's not even how Cabal Points work so it definitely isn't that.

 

It's just that it was kinda laughably easy to get to 9 Cabal Points even at 1000 points, mostly through leaning on minimum squad sized units.  The points changes reflect the true strength of 1KSons having access to a whole extra set of rules that no one else gets to interact with.

 

Combined with 1KSons literally dominating the competitive field, there's little surprise here. The biggest change most 2k lists will see is dropping a squad, probably one of your chaff units. It's not as bad as is being promoted here.