Space Wolf HQs

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

Eh, that analogy fails for the simple reason of BT being from the past edition and having served as the Divergent prototype.

 

To a certain degree, BT are the canaries in the coalmine for what the Divergent chapters can expect for coming editions.

 

Their number of units + HQs + Sprue have more or less provided the template DA, BA and now Wolves followed.

 

It is reasonable to expect 11th ed DA, BA and SW to follow whatever BT get in 10th.

 

By that I mean if they will get a unit(s) or a character.

 

My money is on the latter simply because GW does not tend to have single-kit releases be multi-model (outside of character-tied minions).

 

If they DID create a new unit (like Termies) or something like a unit Dreadnought it would be time for Divergents to start salivating. A BT chaplain Dread would be unspeakably badass.

 

Sales wise I could see it happening.

Failed analogy? I'm simply saying BA used to have a BA specific terminator kit so they were far liklier to receive one over BT who has never had one nor been particularily famous for their terminators. You know, historical prescedent.

 

Im convinced GW feels they have refreshed all of the BT kits there are so if we truly will get a new kit come our 10 codex it will almost certainly a character. Vehicle could work but i'll believe that when i see it.

[StrangerOrders]

43 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Failed analogy? I'm simply saying BA used to have a BA specific terminator kit so they were far liklier to receive one over BT who has never had one nor been particularily famous for their terminators. You know, historical prescedent.

 

Im convinced GW feels they have refreshed all of the BT kits there are so if we truly will get a new kit come our 10 codex it will almost certainly a character. Vehicle could work but i'll believe that when i see it.

More like you needing to approach it more from a unit/model count than a specific armour type.

 

BA termies did have a custom model but for all the Space Hulk, it just isn't as central to their identity as DC and SG.

 

The BA are also an anomaly in that they kinda got shafted in the full custom unit-HQ ratio compared to the other Divergents.

 

Similarly, while cool, Termies both lacked a sculpt and are not as core as Sword Brethren and Crusaders to BT, them not getting them as part of their release just made sense.

 

I suppose I see it as a failed analogy in that I do not see a relationship between BA getting Termies and the BT getting them, beyond the simple fact of their previous existence.

 

If you took it as a slight, then I do apologize, but I do stand by my questioning of it as a valid data point for model forecasting. 

 

And GW likes money and are on record for asserting every dex is getting a model this edition, there is even an argument for this even causing dex-delay. But I do concede that precedent is pretty firm on GW both breaking promises and passing up on seemingly obvious money-makers.

 

My assertion that BT are getting either a new Chaplain this edition or, more amazingly, a Dreadnought Chaplain is derived from their current behaviour. That being that they have yet to release a Divergent update sans a chaplain and it fits BT's 'thing'.  Although Grimaldus existing might have fulfilled the quota, even if BAs contradict it as a rule and it fits the BTs that might disqualify the point.

 

But, again, BT's are the canary, they came first and the disturbingly coherent way GW has stuck to their rough range size and ratio makes me thing what BT get this edition will be indicative of what the othera get in 11th. GW does usually model 3 years ahead after all based on common speculation (amusingly, if true that would land at mid-to-late Covid for the planning of what we are getting now).

 

On topic however, I would like to ask if Valrak has heard about the Wolf Priest model having anything on it that suggested Apothecary-like abilities (vials, medical equipment, etc).

 

Lastly, I would like to restate that the idea of an Impulsor-mounted Ballista that fires Witches tied to stakes with an ignition lighter mounted to the front is both perfectly sensible and indisputably what the BT are in most need of. I will brook no argument on this point.

Edited November 5 by StrangerOrders

[Bryan Blaire]

Blood Angels had a unique Terminator kit outside of any Space Hulk ones that was as key to their appearance as the BA Tactical Squad kit, the BA Honor Guard back when that was around, the Sanguinary Guard, Death Company (which didn’t actually ever need to be a kit, since it was originally just repainted armor, instead of separate options), or unique Dreadnoughts were.  One could argue that the Furioso Dread is rightfully more iconic to the BA than the Sanguinary Guard were, but that didn’t get updated to a BA specific style Primaris Dread.  BA Terminators were as iconic as BT ones ever were.

 

Hopefully the rumors come to pass and the Wolves aren’t treated as poorly as the Blood Angels were, and that the refresh exceeds that of the Dark Angels even.

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

More like you needing to approach it more from a unit/model count than a specific armour type.

 

BA termies did have a custom model but for all the Space Hulk, it just isn't as central to their identity as DC and SG.

 

The BA are also an anomaly in that they kinda got shafted in the full custom unit-HQ ratio compared to the other Divergents.

 

Similarly, while cool, Termies both lacked a sculpt and are not as core as Sword Brethren and Crusaders to BT, them not getting them as part of their release just made sense.

 

I suppose I see it as a failed analogy in that I do not see a relationship between BA getting Termies and the BT getting them, beyond the simple fact of their previous existence.

 

If you took it as a slight, then I do apologize, but I do stand by my questioning of it as a valid data point for model forecasting. 

 

And GW likes money and are on record for asserting every dex is getting a model this edition, there is even an argument for this even causing dex-delay. But I do concede that precedent is pretty firm on GW both breaking promises and passing up on seemingly obvious money-makers.

 

My assertion that BT are getting either a new Chaplain this edition or, more amazingly, a Dreadnought Chaplain is derived from their current behaviour. That being that they have yet to release a Divergent update sans a chaplain and it fits BT's 'thing'.  Although Grimaldus existing might have fulfilled the quota, even if BAs contradict it as a rule and it fits the BTs that might disqualify the point.

 

But, again, BT's are the canary, they came first and the disturbingly coherent way GW has stuck to their rough range size and ratio makes me thing what BT get this edition will be indicative of what the othera get in 11th. GW does usually model 3 years ahead after all based on common speculation (amusingly, if true that would land at mid-to-late Covid for the planning of what we are getting now).

 

On topic however, I would like to ask if Valrak has heard about the Wolf Priest model having anything on it that suggested Apothecary-like abilities (vials, medical equipment, etc).

 

Lastly, I would like to restate that the idea of an Impulsor-mounted Ballista that fires Witches tied to stakes with an ignition lighter mounted to the front is both perfectly sensible and indisputably what the BT are in most need of. I will brook no argument on this point.

Like you seem to be under the mistaken impression I think BT should have gotten terminators as part of their range refresh, even though that was way ahead of the terminator update? Or you frame everything as if correcting me, though you're just stating things I've already said or leaned towards previously. Like I already said we're almost certainly getting a character? And then you seem to be arguing fervently that BT are not getting termies, even though I've, repeatedly now, stated we're virtually guaranteed not to?

 

If you need further clarification on my position: I don't think we BT would've gotten a terminator kit EVEN if we hadn't been the first divergent chapter to get a big refresh. Terminators have never been big for BT. They've always been big for SW (Wolfguard!),  DA (Deathwing!) and even BA to an extent (Space hulk!). But BT? Nah. Never been. Thus it's not happening. We would've gotten terminator bits on our upgrade sprue in the alternate timeline where our range refresh came after the terminator rescale, but we're not in that timeline. Our upgrade sprue is done and we're not getting another.

 

And I also fail to see what your problem with bringing up BA not getting terminators is. HAD they, there would have been arguably more footing for an "all the other divergents are getting them, so we should too"-argument. If you will the method of model forecast here is is gauging GW's intent. In the scenario where EVERY chapter suddenly gets their own bespoke terminator kit, its probably safe to forecast that X chapter will also get some. But if Y chapter, who has already gotten them before don't, then it's more probably that GW's intent in fact isn't to give them to everyone, and thus we're more likely not to get them either.

Edited November 5 by Marshal Reinhard

[Redcomet]

4 hours ago, Northern Walker said:

I much prefer this to thunderwolf cavalry.

Thunderwolf cavalry put me off Space Wolves for good 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

My assertion that BT are getting either a new Chaplain this edition or, more amazingly, a Dreadnought Chaplain is derived from their current behaviour. That being that they have yet to release a Divergent update sans a chaplain and it fits BT's 'thing'.  Although Grimaldus existing might have fulfilled the quota, even if BAs contradict it as a rule and it fits the BTs that might disqualify the point.

 

Well, there's also the fact that they dedicated five bits on the upgrade sprue specifically to Templarize a standard Primaris Chaplain. Not sure they would do that if they were planning an actual BT Chaplain model as well, but GW has done things far more anti-consumer in the recent past so who knows...

[Wispy]

that's a massive refresh that preserves the Space Wolves most iconic and classic units. It mirrors their big 5th edition release in some ways - that codex truly spun Space Wolves out as their own army and not just a Codex Space Marine offshoot. That release brought a dedicated power armour kit that built all Space Wolves infantry and the first chapter dedicated multi-plastic terminator kit. Those two kits are still the backbone for most Space Wolves kitbashing today (though I do like to use many of the weapons and heads from the later Thunderwolf kit). I wonder if there will be options to combine with other kits to build Longfangs?

 

It DOESN'T refresh things like Thunderwolves or Dreadnoughts. I love Thunderwolves and I don't mind waiting on these things. Its better to really cover the stuff that dates back to second edition - Hunters, Claws, Fangs, Priests, Elite Scouts, Wolfgurd-  and leave the esoteric stuff for later editions

 

re: special terminators

the thing that BA and DA have going for it is they've always had one foot in Codex Astartes. You caan open any Codex kit and paint them red or green (or bone or black), slap on the appropriate decals and call it a day. Would some blood drop ornaments and a hooded helmet be nice to have? Sure, but you don't NEED them.

 

If you're doing Space Wolves, the same level effort on a codex kit just produces marines that don't look the part. You gotta be using kitbashes or upgrade sprues and many Space Wolves collectors try their hand at green stuffing fur. 

Edited November 5 by Wispy

[Blindhamster]

13 hours ago, Wispy said:

re: special terminators

the thing that BA and DA have going for it is they've always had one foot in Codex Astartes. You caan open any Codex kit and paint them red or green (or bone or black), slap on the appropriate decals and call it a day. Would some blood drop ornaments and a hooded helmet be nice to have? Sure, but you don't NEED them.

 

If you're doing Space Wolves, the same level effort on a codex kit just produces marines that don't look the part. You gotta be using kitbashes or upgrade sprues and many Space Wolves collectors try their hand at green stuffing fur.

You're both right and wrong.

 

If you look at these (5th ed wolf terminators) they're quite unique:

 

but I'm not sure they're really any more unique than (blood angels terminators of the same era):

 

And if you go pre that point to earlier times, wolf termiantors had some fetishes but weren't all THAT distinctive:

pack leader could easily be a unique torso, and the upgrade sprue could come with wolf tails.

 

Point being, sure space wolves have had some very wolfy kits, and valrak is so consistently right that I'm sure they're about to again, but they really aren't more "deserving" than other chapters of such a full lineup. I'm sure lots of dark angel players would have loved to be able to field a lot more robed marines than is really doable now. Blood Angels clearly would have loved bespoke death company, or a recreation of the terminators above or something like the tactical squad. Whilst I personally found most of those kits too over the top so liked ot mix them with regular marine kits at a 50:50 ratio, it doesn't change the fact that GW made the image of dark angels from 5th onwards even more heavily tied to robes, and the image of blood angels even more heavily ornate. Just like they made wolves heavily more wolfy.

[Blindhamster]

Regardless of the above, it does sound like a pretty huge update. Moreso than I expected, I truly wasn't thinking they'd get more than 8 sets total as every other chapter has had 8 over all their releases, except blood angels who got 9, but only one actual unit.

 

Interested to see how they look when they get revealed, I do like space wolves, even dabbled with them briefly back in third edition (won my first painting competition with a unit on a custom display base!) If nothing else, I'm hoping for bits I can steal :D

[Dark Shepherd]

32 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Regardless of the above, it does sound like a pretty huge update. Moreso than I expected, I truly wasn't thinking they'd get more than 8 sets total as every other chapter has had 8 over all their releases, except blood angels who got 9, but only one actual unit.

 

Interested to see how they look when they get revealed, I do like space wolves, even dabbled with them briefly back in third edition (won my first painting competition with a unit on a custom display base!) If nothing else, I'm hoping for bits I can steal :D

My hunch is Space Wolves sound extra cool to little Timmys and everyone likes a Viking :)

[Bryan Blaire]

1 hour ago, Dark Shepherd said:

My hunch is Space Wolves sound extra cool to little Timmys and everyone likes a Viking :)

Ultimately though, the Wolves themselves aren’t that “Viking” - I like the theme too, but not at the expense of the wolf aspect, which could do with some toning down.  Instead, it would be better to me if they leaned more into the Canis Helix/Wulfen/wolf-man aspect more and made it less about being covered in wolf, riding wolves, everything being named “wolf”, but more of hunting like wolves and with wolves, riding the edge of more folks becoming Wulfen, etc.  Play up the fanged barbarian heads, maybe with some widening snout-like noses, heavy beards and wild hair with prominent fangs.

 

The Fenrisian people may work as Viking inspired, but that should also be the limit for the Space Wolves - inspiration, which they already have built in.  They don’t need to become raiders to get supplies or rush to hold lands somewhere for farming or be expanding their empire by raids.

[Blindhamster]

I suspect that a space wolf upgrade sprue will be like the blood angel one - lots of bare heads.

[Cenobite Terminator]

This latest rumor sounds very promising and I’m hoping it comes to be.

[Northern Walker]

55 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I suspect that a space wolf upgrade sprue will be like the blood angel one - lots of bare heads.

Aye absolutely. Only question will be how silly are the hairdo's. If theres a separate Blood Claws kit, hopefully more restrained. And I hope there's no sodding wolf head helmets anymore.

[Wispy]

On 7/31/2024 at 11:37 AM, Matcap86 said:

Saw it pass around on FB and found the tale not really believable, but man it is a really well done fake if it is fake. 

 

Think the "used store" thing might be a cover story for someone who nicked one from a warehouse, back of a truck. 

The Blood Angels terminators are like 7th edition. The closest comparable thing for the 2008 Wolf Guard Terminator kit would be the Space Hulk Terminators that came out in 2009 (and were never sold separately).

[Blindhamster]

9 minutes ago, Wispy said:

The Blood Angels terminators are like 7th edition. The closest comparable thing for the 2008 Wolf Guard Terminator kit would be the Space Hulk Terminators that came out in 2009 (and were never sold separately).

Doesn’t really make a difference. 

[Wispy]

7 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Doesn’t really make a difference. 

It kinda does. Even the pewter Wolf Guard you posted suggest a long tradition of Space Wolves having custom sculpted Terminator squads. There were sculpted Deathwing Terminator models in the pewter age too... Blood Angels never had that. Anyways, agree to disagree, not a big deal.

Edited November 6 by Wispy

[ZeroWolf]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

The Blood Angels terminators are like 7th edition. The closest comparable thing for the 2008 Wolf Guard Terminator kit would be the Space Hulk Terminators that came out in 2009 (and were never sold separately).

Huh, why is the quote attached to this post from a completely different thread?

 

Anyhow,

 

Looking forward to the eventual reveal of these as I plan on Space Wolves as my other new army of 10/11th edition. Already have a couple of miniatures painted and a box of 3rd edition grey slayers...not sure what to do with them yet.

[Matcap86]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

The Blood Angels terminators are like 7th edition. The closest comparable thing for the 2008 Wolf Guard Terminator kit would be the Space Hulk Terminators that came out in 2009 (and were never sold separately).

Uh something derped here I think cause you quoted me from another thread.

[Wispy]

3 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

Uh something derped here I think cause you quoted me from another thread.

my bad buddy, meant to be replying to Blindhamster's reply to an earlier post of mine. Not sure how i derped my way into that.

[Ehfull]

My guess :

Blood, GH and scouts are not a kit but a big upgrade frame.
The castaferum dread go all legends, we win a dread brutalis wulfen like the DC brutalis. Maybe a venerable dread primaris also ?
WG in 5-10 unit, Skyclaws, wolfscouts, Iron Priest and longs fangs go all legends. We have already equivalent in primaris range.
TW go legends for the joke but I dont believe in it. (Just my secret hope, I am not a huge fan of the concept)
Pack leader wolf gard go legends, it was bad ig (to pricy no impact in cc)
For the special character, Lukas, Canis, Harald, Krom, Ulrik, Bjorn, Murderfang et Logan on sled go legends.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

This is sounding like a very big update. It makes sense. The Space Wolves and Black Templars are much more distinct in culture and doctrine than BA/DA. Hopefully BT do well next year. 

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry are cool but I see so much hate (well maybe that's too strong a word, perhaps disrespect?) online tha perhaps GW has decided to drop them to reduce the 'meme' factor of Space Wolves. Personally I hope they return in the future fully plastic because I love wolves and to me Thunderwolf Cavalry are part of what makes 40k, well, 40k. 

 

 

[Northern Walker]

I think thunderwolf cavalry could have been better if there had been much more obvious cybernetic upgrades to the wolves so them taking the weight of a fully armoured astartes was more believable. The slight derpyness of aspects of the kit doesn't help either.

[Joe]

There is no universe in which Thunderwolf Cavalry are ever a good design.

[Marshall Bretton]

The problem is that to look sensible they need to be much bigger. Realistically their back should be at least as tall as a marines shoulder to look like they could actually carry the weight, those would be some really big models though, especially with primaris scale