Support Formations

[Crablezworth]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kxdnixtt/heresy-thursday-enlist-the-support-of-mighty-battle-automata-with-free-legions-imperialis-cybernetica-rules/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGZtj5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHaez_wre4DXHopzdPU1VboRoA5KBuP51hRUU62a753pyFNnY4_hvTDmc3A_aem_Kvd4eYs4_cP8DiVGGKiyNQ

 

 

I've only been able to scratch the surface. I'm a bit confused, I'm not sure why 30% allies would still be a thing and have these as well. Basically for ever formation you take from your main faction, which is seeming a lot more like window dressing now, you can take a support formation. They mix mechanicum with the other armies and have options from both. 

 

I've never loved formations but this is making me want a simple foc more and more. Not entirely complaining either as I've barely been able to form an opinion on invidual new support formations. Just sort of lamenting having to take this in so close to all the new mech/dark mech ones. 

 

I think my biggest frustration is all this and we still don't have a mech formation that lets people take a single damn flyer/avenger. 

 

[DuskRaider]

These Formations are actually pretty interesting, though as I said up in N&R they’re still missing Air Support, which is where Mechanicum are severely lacking. That’s a head scratcher for sure, at least IMO. It would be cool to throw these in some Formations though, and this basically gives Dark Mechanicum a work around for the lack of Automata and the Ally barrier. 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, Crablezworth said:

I think my biggest frustration is all this and we still don't have a mech formation that lets people take a single damn flyer/avenger. 

Well, these are the Mechanicus Support Detachments.

I'd expect a Solar Auxilla or Legions Astartes Support Detachment for Mech to have a Flyer slot.

[Black Cohort]

I like the idea of these.  Dancing around the allied 30% is a bit of a potential issue though.

[Crablezworth]

23 minutes ago, Black Cohort said:

I like the idea of these.  Dancing around the allied 30% is a bit of a potential issue though.

 

That's my main gripe, if this is to replace 30% allies it'd be one thing but it's also just sort of blurring the lines a bit too much between factions. Like the end result of mechnicum not feeling entirely finished/missing flyers/aa instead of just making another formation to add those we get the sorta destruction of what it even means to play any given faction as a primary force. This makes it like 50% or close to it.  It's not an indictment of the new formations themselves I'm just worried that that will become a trend. The game is getting too sandbox imo, and the end result is any event trying to reign things in will be easy to make the bad guy out of for just wanting a bit more structure. 

 

But ya taking in the whole picture of you can run 1 of these support formations for every main formation, if you add 30% allies on top, what does it even mean to play faction at that point? The army construction rules are also so loose as it is with their being no limit or cap on formations or detachment cap.  

Edited November 7 by Crablezworth

[Crablezworth]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

These Formations are actually pretty interesting, though as I said up in N&R they’re still missing Air Support, which is where Mechanicum are severely lacking. That’s a head scratcher for sure, at least IMO. It would be cool to throw these in some Formations though, and this basically gives Dark Mechanicum a work around for the lack of Automata and the Ally barrier. 

 

They could have just made a formation that allowed flyers/avengers specifically. With a short addendum saying they're now part of the main list for mech and dark mech. It's these existing alongside 30% allies that has me that I can't really get my head around. Also if they can whip these up they can certainly get a faq/errata out.  

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, Crablezworth said:

 

They could have just made a formation that allowed flyers/avengers specifically. With a short addendum saying they're now part of the main list for mech and dark mech. It's these existing alongside 30% allies that has me that I can't really get my head around. Also if they can whip these up they can certainly get a faq/errata out.  

I guess at the same time, it’s opening up the possibility of using an allied Air Support formation as well as including units some wouldn’t have access to without aforementioned 30% slot otherwise. 
 

I think it’s a nifty idea that opens up some cool thematic options. My Mech box will finally be arriving tomorrow, so I’ll get to work on that once it’s in my possession. 

[Crablezworth]

31 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

I guess at the same time, it’s opening up the possibility of using an allied Air Support formation as well as including units some wouldn’t have access to without aforementioned 30% slot otherwise. 
 

I think it’s a nifty idea that opens up some cool thematic options. My Mech box will finally be arriving tomorrow, so I’ll get to work on that once it’s in my possession. 

 

 

It does, it's that it also reduces the incentive to create new functional factions bur also just add to the "do whatever you want" result of army construction while still making it way more convoluted than it needs to be. 

 

The option was always there to ignore army construction/faction rules entirely anyway, I just don't get why they need to degrade the very limited structure army construction even has. Especially without any limits. 

 

There's definitely some cool stuff in there, he knight one that lets you choose beteween forward deployment and outflank is cool. 

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, Crablezworth said:

 

 

It does, it's that it also reduces the incentive to create new functional factions bur also just add to the "do whatever you want" result of army construction while still making it way more convoluted than it needs to be. 

 

The option was always there to ignore army construction/faction rules entirely anyway, I just don't get why they need to degrade the very limited structure army construction even has. Especially without any limits. 

 

There's definitely some cool stuff in there, he knight one that lets you choose beteween forward deployment and outflank is cool. 

I’m just hoping that it doesn’t disincentivize GW to make Astartes Super Heavies, etc. like someone had said over on Reddit. This is a bit concerning and while I doubt it would happen, this is GW and they may figure that double (or quintuple? Septuple?) dipping would be more profitable than churning out the new models for a long time.  
 

You want Super Heavies with your Astartes? Just use a Support Formation and take Baneblade variants! Just paint it as a Vassal Solar Auxilia company and it’s the same thing as a Felblade (not really)! You want Fast Attack options for your Auxilia? Just take an Astartes Support Formation! 

[Crablezworth]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m just hoping that it doesn’t disincentivize GW to make Astartes Super Heavies, etc. like someone had said over on Reddit. This is a bit concerning and while I doubt it would happen, this is GW and they may figure that double (or quintuple? Septuple?) dipping would be more profitable than churning out the new models for a long time.  
 

You want Super Heavies with your Astartes? Just use a Support Formation and take Baneblade variants! Just paint it as a Vassal Solar Auxilia company and it’s the same thing as a Felblade (not really)! You want Fast Attack options for your Auxilia? Just take an Astartes Support Formation! 

 

That's my exact concern "oh you expected to be able to field super heavies and artillery and light armour from your own faction because we put them in your formations in the rulebook? Bless your heart, no, here's 87 new formations tho".  

[DuskRaider]

16 minutes ago, Crablezworth said:

 

That's my exact concern "oh you expected to be able to field super heavies and artillery and light armour from your own faction because we put them in your formations in the rulebook? Bless your heart, no, here's 87 new formations tho".  

That will be the death knell of this game. 

[Indy Techwisp]

32 minutes ago, Crablezworth said:

That's my exact concern "oh you expected to be able to field super heavies and artillery and light armour from your own faction because we put them in your formations in the rulebook? Bless your heart, no, here's 87 new formations tho".  

 

I think you're underselling GW's lust for selling overpriced plastic.
I do fully expect some kind of LA/SA "Combat Air Patrol" Support Formation since as far as I can see the Mechanicum don't really have 30k Era Flyers unique to them.

 

That said, I don't think Support Formations will be frequent additions, rather they'll be stuff added akin to the HH2.0 "Exemplary Battles of the Age of Darkness" stuff every now and again.

[Black Cohort]

I do have a thought.  What if this support formation thing is to test out a way they could release even smaller factions in some way.  Like one of two boxes for stuff like Custodes or Daemons that exist purely in support of main factions.

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Black Cohort said:

I do have a thought.  What if this support formation thing is to test out a way they could release even smaller factions in some way.  Like one of two boxes for stuff like Custodes or Daemons that exist purely in support of main factions.

 

Y'know what?
That does make sense.
This system would be the perfect way to do Custodes/Daemons.
 

That said, it'd probably be only 1 box each tho, right?
Custodes really only need an Infantry Box (Custodes, Custodes Terminators, Custodes Dread and maybe Sisters of Silence?) since their transports could simply be "take from the Astartes list, they transport Custodes instead."
Daemons pretty much only have Infantry anyway, tho if we push the envelope maybe they get a 50/50 between smaller Daemons and "Big Guys" (this would also be a way for GW to show us what the bigger Ruinstorm Daemons actually look like without needing to make Greater Ruinstorm Daemon model for main 30k).

[Black Cohort]

18 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Y'know what?
That does make sense.
This system would be the perfect way to do Custodes/Daemons.
 

That said, it'd probably be only 1 box each tho, right?
Custodes really only need an Infantry Box (Custodes, Custodes Terminators, Custodes Dread and maybe Sisters of Silence?) since their transports could simply be "take from the Astartes list, they transport Custodes instead."
Daemons pretty much only have Infantry anyway, tho if we push the envelope maybe they get a 50/50 between smaller Daemons and "Big Guys" (this would also be a way for GW to show us what the bigger Ruinstorm Daemons actually look like without needing to make Greater Ruinstorm Daemon model for main 30k).

 

You could do the core of Custodes and Sisters of Silence in one box.  Though I see a box for the Custodes grav tank as well.

 

back when people were first discussing the possibility of other factions I theorized this as a Custodes/SoS infantry box.

 

One 1 infantry sprue the marines got:

1 command stand

4 tactical stands

1 plasma stand

1 missile stand

1 assault stand

1 terminator stand

2 dreadnoughts

with a handful of spare bodies. 

 

Therefore I see no reason why you couldn't do something like:

1 Custodes Command stand

3 Custodian Guard stands

1 sentinel guard stand (2 piece like the missile launchers for the shields)

1 Custodes terminators

1 sisters with melee weapons stand (extra model to do a command stand version)

2 sisters with bolters stands

2 Custodes dreadnoughts

[vadersson]

I still think that if GW wants they could create new things for other factions in the epic scale easier than the 28mm stuff.  So maybe custodies or sisters get some new larger units too.  They have a fair amount of flexibility in the HHera if they want to use it.

[Matrindur]

On 11/8/2024 at 2:30 AM, Black Cohort said:

 

You could do the core of Custodes and Sisters of Silence in one box.  Though I see a box for the Custodes grav tank as well.

 

back when people were first discussing the possibility of other factions I theorized this as a Custodes/SoS infantry box.

 

One 1 infantry sprue the marines got:

1 command stand

4 tactical stands

1 plasma stand

1 missile stand

1 assault stand

1 terminator stand

2 dreadnoughts

with a handful of spare bodies. 

 

Therefore I see no reason why you couldn't do something like:

1 Custodes Command stand

3 Custodian Guard stands

1 sentinel guard stand (2 piece like the missile launchers for the shields)

1 Custodes terminators

1 sisters with melee weapons stand (extra model to do a command stand version)

2 sisters with bolters stands

2 Custodes dreadnoughts

 

Don't forget that Custodes have a few more things in 30k. Namely the Venatari, the Jetbikes, three Dreadnought variants though the two Contemptors can just be weapon options and of course their three different vehicles and two aircraft. We might not see the Orion at first and its debatable whether they move the Ares from a resin Aeronautica kit to plastic but then again they also did that with the Arvus. But I would be susprised if we don't see the Coronus, Caladius and Pallas.

I'm guessing an infantry sprue like you said just maybe without the Dreadnoughts and instead with the Sagittarum Guard, then a fast attack sprue with the Venatari, Jetbikes and Pallas and maybe something new for Sisters? Then another kit or two for the Caladius and Coronus and a Dreadnought kit with the two Contemptor variants and the Telemon

 

[Lord Marshal]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:09 PM, Crablezworth said:

I've only been able to scratch the surface. I'm a bit confused, I'm not sure why 30% allies would still be a thing and have these as well. Basically for ever formation you take from your main faction, which is seeming a lot more like window dressing now, you can take a support formation. They mix mechanicum with the other armies and have options from both. 

 

I think it's just to be able to represent more closely integrated Mechanicum units. At 28mm you have things like Brethren of Iron for Marines and Iron Cohorts for Solar Auxilia that allow you to embed Mechanicum units without having to use up your Allied Detachments. You're exchanging the flexibility of taking whatever Formation for being able to avoid the 30%.

 

This is just a cute way of incentivising people to put some Mechanicum units into their non-Mechanicum armies they otherwise wouldn't. Hell, even before this I saw a lot of people talking about kitbashing/converting up Praevian and Techmarine models as stand-ins for Tech-Priests.

 

Be interesting to see if we get Legiones Auxilia Formations in the future, though at 28mm those still require you to run a separate Allied Detachment so probably not.

 

Edited November 9 by Lord Marshal

[DuskRaider]

They took the easy way out and gave us Legion-related paint schemes for Solar Auxilia lol. 
 

I won’t lie, I was tempted to do some Barbaran Ambaxtoi (never thought of Death Guard as Celt-inspired), but I will never paint up Mechanicum in XIVth colors. Never. 
 

I do find the Dark Mechanicum Support Formation very interesting. Giving the Automata the Dread rule pretty cool, not sure how effective it will be though. 

[Crablezworth]

2 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

They took the easy way out and gave us Legion-related paint schemes for Solar Auxilia lol. 
 

I won’t lie, I was tempted to do some Barbaran Ambaxtoi (never thought of Death Guard as Celt-inspired), but I will never paint up Mechanicum in XIVth colors. Never. 
 

I do find the Dark Mechanicum Support Formation very interesting. Giving the Automata the Dread rule pretty cool, not sure how effective it will be though. 

 

Could be a mixed bag in that dread aura affects friendly and enemy alike. 

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, Crablezworth said:

 

Could be a mixed bag in that dread aura affects friendly and enemy alike. 

This is true. It’s kinda like the old Nurgle’s Rot ability in the Chaos 3.5 codex. You have to give the units a wide berth in order to avoid any friendly fire, so to speak. I’d use them to cover a portion of the board with more enemy infantry or use them to take and / or punish enemies who are on Objectives. 

[DuskRaider]

Someone over on Facebook brought up an interesting :cuss: with the Iron Ruinhost Formation. 

 

“Rules stuff.

So, how are people planning to run the Ironbound Ruinhost?

As written, there are no possible HQ options as there are no HQs that have Cybernetica Cortex. And it wouldn’t make sense for an HQ to have it, so this is unlikely to be future-proofing for a unit that hasn’t come out yet.

Are you planning to:
Ignore the requirement for HQs?
Ignore the requirement for HQs and Support?
Read it as ‘must have the Cybernetica Cortex (X) or Cortex Controller special rule’?
Something else entirely?”

 

 

Some are saying to just take the Dark Mech HQ and ignore the requirements, so the detachments just run on the two listed orders. 
 

I had suggested  running it with a regular Dark Mechanicum HQ and replace the Cortex Controller rule with the Noosphere rule, and the Cybernetica Cortex with the Network Anima rule.

 

Either way, it makes no sense and I’m not sure what their intention was here. 

[Crablezworth]

Is it me or did they just confuse cortex controller with cybernetica cortex? 

[DuskRaider]

10 minutes ago, Crablezworth said:

Is it me or did they just confuse cortex controller with cybernetica cortex? 

That wouldn’t surprise me, it seems to be the case that they don’t know their own rules with some of these things. 

[Trokair]

Regarding the Ironbound Ruinhost, I'd be inclined to replace the HQ slot with a third compulsory Support slot, possibly even specifying that the compulsory slots be filled by Castellax.