Why are the giant templates back?

[Valkyrion]

I must've missed the announcement, but why are the big apocalypse markers back?

[irlLordy]

For Horus Heresy era games which still use them.

[Valkyrion]

Of course, silly me.

Not sure why an honest question is so disagreeable mind, respectful or not.

[phandaal]

28 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Of course, silly me.

Not sure why an honest question is so disagreeable mind, respectful or not.

 

Respectfully, he disagrees (with respect) that templates ever left. They were always with us, in our hearts. 

[Jukkiz]

nothing like using them flamer templates and proceeding to have 10minute argument which models it hit

[Valkyrion]

I don't really want to belabour the point any more than necessary, but @Joe respectfully disagreeing a question feels like being a dick for no real reason, and I know that's not his bag, he's one of the most helpful people on this forum, so is the reaction being used to imply 'lol you're an idiot'? 

If it is then I'm all for it, honestly. More people than ever before could do with being hit on the head with the idiothammer, and calling people an idiot outright seems to be frowned upon these days, so if the respectfully disagree reaction is to be used as a prompt to better oneself then I'm well on board, even if I fall victim to it occasionally.

 

If it is to be used to respectfully disagree with something that doesn't invite opinion at all then what purpose does the button serve? 

[N1SB]

I gave you an agree so you feel better, Brother.

[Valkyrion]

12 minutes ago, N1SB said:

I gave you an agree so you feel better, Brother.

 

???

[LameBeard]

I agree that @Joe is consistently one of the best mannered and helpful members of this board. Is it possible, therefore, that he read the post as suggesting they were back in the 40k rules (hence respectfully disagree) rather than suggesting they were back in the web store? That’s how I also (incorrectly) read the subject header.

 

And @Jukkiz, who are all these people who argue over flamer template hits but never argue over a charge distance? Is it really so different? (For context, I mostly play GW games with my family and we are notorious for arguing over EVERYTHING in any board game let alone a war game, so flamer templates never seemed on any different level).

[templargdt]

13 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

I don't really want to belabour the point any more than necessary, but @Joe respectfully disagreeing a question feels like being a dick for no real reason, and I know that's not his bag, he's one of the most helpful people on this forum, so is the reaction being used to imply 'lol you're an idiot'? 

If it is then I'm all for it, honestly. More people than ever before could do with being hit on the head with the idiothammer, and calling people an idiot outright seems to be frowned upon these days, so if the respectfully disagree reaction is to be used as a prompt to better oneself then I'm well on board, even if I fall victim to it occasionally.

 

If it is to be used to respectfully disagree with something that doesn't invite opinion at all then what purpose does the button serve? 

It's okay if someone disagrees with something you say.

[DemonGSides]

5 hours ago, LameBeard said:

I agree that @Joe is consistently one of the best mannered and helpful members of this board. Is it possible, therefore, that he read the post as suggesting they were back in the 40k rules (hence respectfully disagree) rather than suggesting they were back in the web store? That’s how I also (incorrectly) read the subject header.

 

And @Jukkiz, who are all these people who argue over flamer template hits but never argue over a charge distance? Is it really so different? (For context, I mostly play GW games with my family and we are notorious for arguing over EVERYTHING in any board game let alone a war game, so flamer templates never seemed on any different level).

 

Cuz charge distance is pretty easy; you measure from the base, gotta be within 1 inch of their base.  Not much wiggle room there; two tape measures solves it.  That being said, Charge distances are probably some of the most discussed things at my games right now, so I'm not sure the hypothetical holds water from the get go.

The template has to hover mid air and you've got different perspectives looking at it depending on where you're stand at the table, unless you can try to float over top of the flamer.  Templates are messy (But do have a certain "Fun" to the idea compared to just the auto hitting of the current paradigm, but the current way flamethrowers work is just so much easier).

[Evil Eye]

On 11/9/2024 at 1:47 PM, phandaal said:

 

Respectfully, he disagrees (with respect) that templates ever left. They were always with us, in our hearts. 

Templates now and forever. There's few things as satisfying as putting down the big pie plate over a horde of infantry.

[Antarius]

I guess a thousand reactions are worth slightly less than a tousand words. Templates are cool, though, assuming you don't get into annyoing arguments about them.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I never once had an argument when using templates. My controversial opinion is that it isn't the templates that are the problem but the people. 

[Ahzek451]

Played years of local, tournament, and abroad, template arguments were certainly a thing as much as any disagreement when measuring distances. That is to say, every once in awhile you get the intense disagreement with a particular gamer which would likely also argue any ranges measured. Although, when they did crop up, I witnessed more issues with the direction of the template when a scatter dice was involves vs. which model was actually clipped by the template. It's amazing how how often templates "floated off" the actual direction of the scatter dice a slight bit to hit an extra model or 2. Which also meant also reminding your opponent to roll the scatter dice as close as possible to the template to avoid confusion. If you know you know.  

Flamer templates were nicer in this regard. 

Edited November 11 by Ahzek451

[Arikel]

3 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Flamer templates were nicer in this regard. 

Flamer template was super fun, especially with my redeemer into orc hordes. Never did like the scatter arrow dice though for the blast templates, too prone to be subjective.

[Madao]

On 11/10/2024 at 5:07 PM, DemonGSides said:

 

Cuz charge distance is pretty easy; you measure from the base, gotta be within 1 inch of their base.  Not much wiggle room there; two tape measures solves it.  That being said, Charge distances are probably some of the most discussed things at my games right now, so I'm not sure the hypothetical holds water from the get go.

The template has to hover mid air and you've got different perspectives looking at it depending on where you're stand at the table, unless you can try to float over top of the flamer.  Templates are messy (But do have a certain "Fun" to the idea compared to just the auto hitting of the current paradigm, but the current way flamethrowers work is just so much easier).

Well, templates are in HH and people live with it, so they are not inherently evil. Maybe not suitable for regular competitive that guy player, who seems to be the current target of 40k. I would love having optional rules for templates in casual 40k to be used instead of blast/torrent, as I am playing mostly with friends in beer&pretzel style of games and templates are fun (especially if they are swingy with misdirect hits)

[Rhavien]

Just google parallax error. That's the main problem with templates. 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Easily avoided by leaning over the table.

HH and AT manage it every day. 40k must entice a shorter player base.

[Stitch5000]

Most blast/template weapons in HH are "less effective" than they used top be. (That is to say the prevalence of AP2/3 blast markers is reduced) and they tend to cause fewer arguments because of this. 

I would posit that the BIG template kit coming back is something to do with them being unavailable for the last 2 years, but being required by in-print rules in the HH game. It;s good to see them back. Andy Hoare has made mention of templates being in HH to stay forever, or words to that effect, in the past. 

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m hoping the big templates are back because there’s something in plastic on the horizon that will need them! Fingers crossed :)

[SvenIronhand]

On 11/10/2024 at 1:54 PM, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

I never once had an argument when using templates. My controversial opinion is that it isn't the templates that are the problem but the people. 

Yeah, this is the thing for me. I think it's a very certain type of wargamer who gets mad over this sort of thing.

 

10 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

40k must entice a shorter player base.

[DemonGSides]

18 hours ago, Madao said:

Well, templates are in HH and people live with it, so they are not inherently evil. Maybe not suitable for regular competitive that guy player, who seems to be the current target of 40k. I would love having optional rules for templates in casual 40k to be used instead of blast/torrent, as I am playing mostly with friends in beer&pretzel style of games and templates are fun (especially if they are swingy with misdirect hits)

 

I even called them fun in the comment you quoted, not sure why you think I think they're inherently evil.

 

You can use them in 10th edition; instead of where you would roll for shots, just use a template.  Seems pretty simple!

[Cactus]

On 11/12/2024 at 8:22 AM, Rhavien said:

Just google parallax error. That's the main problem with templates. 

 

 

This is not helped by my poor depth perception. Unfortunately some of my regular opponents are the kind of person who you prefer roll their dice on another table and certainly not close to your lovingly crafted premium deep-striking unit.

 

On 11/12/2024 at 8:57 AM, Interrogator Stobz said:

Easily avoided by leaning over the table.

HH and AT manage it every day. 40k must entice a shorter player base.

 

 

I can struggle to reach models in the centre of a 4' table. Looking directly down on them would require a complex arrangement of mirrors and range finders!

 

The tactile and visual* aspect of templates is great, and has obvious appeal to the kind of person that likes miniature wargames.

 

*Especially the old cardboard ones with printed explosions.