Broken Crusade

[cheywood]

Just started this. Two chapters in so far and the prose is very, very good. It’s a mixture of 1st and 3rd person, which I really enjoy. Hopefully this proves to be a clear step up for Fischer’s second novel (not that Witchbringer was bad), just as Dominion Genesis is for Beer. 
 

The reason I’m starting this thread so early is that this book is set 200 + years after the rift, which feels very strange given the shorter timeline GW has worked within for the past 4 years or so. Are we getting back to longer timescales in the setting or did GW just publish a book without proofreading? Let’s read it and find out!

[darkhorse0607]

Just started as well and I'm really enjoying it. I enjoy that the author is leaning a little bit heavier into the Knightly aspect of the Templars

 

Here's hoping the rest of the book is like the first few chapters

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Pilgrims of Fire, which came out last year, was set a century after Cadia's fall, which also stuck out from the overall concentration as of the onset of 9th-Edition towards setting stories in the first couple decades after the opening of the Rift. It really does tend to dampen any potential excitement about Cawl's tinkering with noctilith to at least begin the process of stitching the Rift shut. Not only does he not manage to make any substantive progress on that in over a century (now two!), but simply crossing the Rift is still a crapshoot even though in the "present day" we know of at least two stable routes.

[Ubiquitous1984]

14 hours ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

Pilgrims of Fire, which came out last year, was set a century after Cadia's fall, which also stuck out from the overall concentration as of the onset of 9th-Edition towards setting stories in the first couple decades after the opening of the Rift. It really does tend to dampen any potential excitement about Cawl's tinkering with noctilith to at least begin the process of stitching the Rift shut. Not only does he not manage to make any substantive progress on that in over a century (now two!), but simply crossing the Rift is still a crapshoot even though in the "present day" we know of at least two stable routes.

What an odd decision from GW/BL.  Why go to the trouble of the retcons re: Haley’s work, only to ‘spoil’ the events of the future timeline anyway?  Unless they hand wave it away with the usual warp-time shenanigans.  
 

[cheywood]

 

On 11/9/2024 at 1:56 PM, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

Pilgrims of Fire, which came out last year, was set a century after Cadia's fall, which also stuck out from the overall concentration as of the onset of 9th-Edition towards setting stories in the first couple decades after the opening of the Rift. It really does tend to dampen any potential excitement about Cawl's tinkering with noctilith to at least begin the process of stitching the Rift shut. Not only does he not manage to make any substantive progress on that in over a century (now two!), but simply crossing the Rift is still a crapshoot even though in the "present day" we know of at least two stable routes.

My guess is GW will largely ignore Pilgrims of Fire and Broken Crusade when deciding what to do with the setting going forward. If they want to go in another direction, like closing the rift, they’ll do so without a second thought.
 

I wonder if @JustinDHill would be able to provide context on why Pilgrims is set so far in the future though.

Edited November 11 by cheywood

[DarkChaplain]

I expect we'd sooner see Cawl inventing Rift-Drives that stabilize the warp crossing with Blackstone shenanigans than an actual major change to the Rift as it exists.

 

Though I do also expect Cawl and Guilliman creating more stable routes with easier access or strategic placement anyway, as part of the main project of shutting the Rift down. There's simply no logistical feasibility in closing it completely for the foreseeable future/centuries, so it'll most assuredly happen piecemeal, reclaiming bits of Nihilus every so often while keeping the bulk of it still shrouded.

[Kelborn]

Just ordered it in my local store. Now reading your feedback and I'm very intrigued by what I'm reading.

 

Curious about the focus on the knight aspect of the Templars. Also the timeskip is not an issue for me. I'm happy that they're expanind the timeline and give us another aspect of the new setting. Though I'm curious if there's a decision or a simple handwave/ oversight behind it.

 

Whatever the case, give me more standalone plotlines which aren't art of the main timeframe which is developed by campaign books and whatnot to flesh out the current setting. :)

Edited November 12 by Kelborn

[Ubiquitous1984]

17 hours ago, Kelborn said:

I'm happy that they're expanind the timeline and give us another aspect of the new setting. Though I'm curious if there's a decision or a simple handwave/ oversight behind it.

 

Whatever the case, give me more standalone plotlines which aren't art of the main timeframe which is developed by campaign books and whatnot to flesh out the current setting. :)

I agree that seeing other timelines is always interesting, and opens up new opportunities.  The only caveat I would raise is that I wish these timelines were all pre-Rift.  We don't need to dip into the future when potentially so much can happen in the 'present'.  By placing books in the 'future' it removes some of the narrative mysteries about the setting.  We know that the Emperor can't be dead/has risen, as it would be mentioned.  We know that Abbadon has not conquered the Imperium, because it would be mentioned.  Etc etc.  

 

Whilst it's very unlikely any of these things will happen in the timeline due to the finality they would bring to the setting, it does close off some of the mystery and suspense of future stories.  If you set the stories in the past then none of this is a problem.

Edited November 13 by Ubiquitous1984

[Ammonius]

I got the E-Book and have been reading it at work on lunch break ... and maybe snatches at other times. :)

 

I will not spoil anything, but there is a scene in Chapter 12 that beautifully encapsulates the form of Imperial Faith in the grim dark future. For me, it's right up there with the best moments in Helsreach, and I don't make that claim lightly. 

 

I haven't finished the book yet, but I do feel like I need to fire up Space Marine 2 and grind out some Black Templar armory unlocks, and soon.

[theSpirea]

Very happy to hear positive feedback. I loved Fischer's Witchbringer and still consider it the best book in that imprint. Can't wait to get my hands on it

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

On 11/11/2024 at 6:35 AM, cheywood said:

 

My guess is GW will largely ignore Pilgrims of Fire and Broken Crusade when deciding what to do with the setting going forward. If they want to go in another direction, like closing the rift, they’ll do so without a second thought.

 

Yeah, it's not even getting as far as closing the Rift, even though that's bad enough. Cawl has reportedly made such significant progress with his experiments there that by the time of Dark Imperium, he's feeling pretty confident that he'll actually be able to begin enacting that ultimate plan in the near future.

 

Fair enough - that made sense when he'd been working on it for over a century and "now" was supposed to be taking place over the next few years and potentially decades. His initial substantive experiments should take place "any day now" and might even form the basis for a novel or even novel series.

 

But now with the reset he reached that point of confidence in barely a decade, yet now with Broken Crusade, he's had TWENTY TIMES that long and hasn't done squat.

 

Again, it's not like this is some binary on/off switch - Rift open / Rift closed. No, his first steps would definitely have been more along the lines of establishing additional stable routes. It's the same basic problem and solution - the reason for the Nachmund Gauntlet is the noctilith located at both ends, Vigilus and Sangua Terra. With all the access to noctilith that Cawl apparently has, he should be plotting and establishing a network of stable routes along the Rift as just the initial stages of eventually fully stitching the Rift shut - but even THAT end goal he signalled his confidence on getting done before long after only studying it for twelve years.

 

So why is crossing the Rift still such a ticket to disaster over a century later? Again, it ALMOST made sense when Dante didn't start cleaning up Imperium Nihilus until 70 years post-Rift, but in the revised timeline he started out 14 years post-Rift. AND now he's got not only the conveniently reconstituted chapters of the Blood helping him out, but the Lion and the Unforgiven are working to stabilize Nihilus as well. And all of this is before we see whatever Guilliman is going to contribute to Nihilus aside from bringing all of the Primaris reinforcements. Cawl should have all of the assistance he needs in locating and securing planets to act as anchor points on both sides of the Rift where he can set up his network.

 

But, as of a century later, he doesn't appear to have even started on what should be step one in a plan that he was sure he'd be on the final step of in the reasonably near future.

 

This is what happens when you don't have a plan and insist on moving timelines a century ahead and then a century back without any sort of roadmap. If they'd established a prohibition on Black Library stories set more than a decade or so past Godblight, that might have worked. But they either didn't see fit to do that or weren't given the authority. So we end up with a mess that I guess we're just supposed to pretend not to notice.

 

Then again, maybe we'll see a "Hail Mary" in the followup to Genefather and it will turn out that the conclusion of that trilogy has Cawl and all of the magi who pledged to help him out in his quest wind up getting "timestuck" until such time as GW decides they can safely bring him off the shelf and actually have him affect the setting the way he's apparently completely capable of doing.

 

Or maybe they just kill them all off and Alpha Primus alone escapes via rocketship to the Pegasus Galaxy, where he embraces his identity as the last survivor of the Q Continuum and learns the ways of the Force so that he can lead the scattered remnants of the Thirteenth Tribe of humanity back to Terra.

[LemartestheLost]

40 minutes ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

 

Yeah, it's not even getting as far as closing the Rift, even though that's bad enough. Cawl has reportedly made such significant progress with his experiments there that by the time of Dark Imperium, he's feeling pretty confident that he'll actually be able to begin enacting that ultimate plan in the near future.

 

Fair enough - that made sense when he'd been working on it for over a century and "now" was supposed to be taking place over the next few years and potentially decades. His initial substantive experiments should take place "any day now" and might even form the basis for a novel or even novel series.

 

But now with the reset he reached that point of confidence in barely a decade, yet now with Broken Crusade, he's had TWENTY TIMES that long and hasn't done squat.

 

Again, it's not like this is some binary on/off switch - Rift open / Rift closed. No, his first steps would definitely have been more along the lines of establishing additional stable routes. It's the same basic problem and solution - the reason for the Nachmund Gauntlet is the noctilith located at both ends, Vigilus and Sangua Terra. With all the access to noctilith that Cawl apparently has, he should be plotting and establishing a network of stable routes along the Rift as just the initial stages of eventually fully stitching the Rift shut - but even THAT end goal he signalled his confidence on getting done before long after only studying it for twelve years.

 

So why is crossing the Rift still such a ticket to disaster over a century later? Again, it ALMOST made sense when Dante didn't start cleaning up Imperium Nihilus until 70 years post-Rift, but in the revised timeline he started out 14 years post-Rift. AND now he's got not only the conveniently reconstituted chapters of the Blood helping him out, but the Lion and the Unforgiven are working to stabilize Nihilus as well. And all of this is before we see whatever Guilliman is going to contribute to Nihilus aside from bringing all of the Primaris reinforcements. Cawl should have all of the assistance he needs in locating and securing planets to act as anchor points on both sides of the Rift where he can set up his network.

 

But, as of a century later, he doesn't appear to have even started on what should be step one in a plan that he was sure he'd be on the final step of in the reasonably near future.

 

This is what happens when you don't have a plan and insist on moving timelines a century ahead and then a century back without any sort of roadmap. If they'd established a prohibition on Black Library stories set more than a decade or so past Godblight, that might have worked. But they either didn't see fit to do that or weren't given the authority. So we end up with a mess that I guess we're just supposed to pretend not to notice.

 

Then again, maybe we'll see a "Hail Mary" in the followup to Genefather and it will turn out that the conclusion of that trilogy has Cawl and all of the magi who pledged to help him out in his quest wind up getting "timestuck" until such time as GW decides they can safely bring him off the shelf and actually have him affect the setting the way he's apparently completely capable of doing.

 

Or maybe they just kill them all off and Alpha Primus alone escapes via rocketship to the Pegasus Galaxy, where he embraces his identity as the last survivor of the Q Continuum and learns the ways of the Force so that he can lead the scattered remnants of the Thirteenth Tribe of humanity back to Terra.

Alas, GW will GW, what can us poor beggars do?

Edited Saturday at 10:03 PM by LemartestheLost