Is Mephiston underwhelming?

[RyanT2112]

I just think the tactical value and terror factor Mephiston provides is an X factor. You literally move him near the units you want to protect that might not have fight first or might even be a vehicle (like a Vindicator for example) and bam you have a Heroic Intervention w/ Fights First monster that can come around and give anyone a bad day.

 

7 attacks Str 11 AP-3 dmg D3 isn't a joke especially if it hits you before you hit whatever you meant to hit.

 

His durability is superb. His psychic power is swingy but I just used him in a game and got 1 hit and 2 sustained 3 hits for 7 hits with 3 attacks. It was nuts. When his randomness comes in line he is just sick. On the flip side in my game his durability was crappy and I kept rolling no FNPs but my dice on defense the entire game was crap. My offense I rolled well all the time. It is the nature of his randomness.

 

I get many players want more stable picks but part of the fun is the fact that he's so swingy. I don't think he's overcosted though.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, RyanT2112 said:

I just think the tactical value and terror factor Mephiston provides is an X factor. You literally move him near the units you want to protect that might not have fight first or might even be a vehicle (like a Vindicator for example) and bam you have a Heroic Intervention w/ Fights First monster that can come around and give anyone a bad day.

 

7 attacks Str 11 AP-3 dmg D3 isn't a joke especially if it hits you before you hit whatever you meant to hit.

 

His durability is superb. His psychic power is swingy but I just used him in a game and got 1 hit and 2 sustained 3 hits for 7 hits with 3 attacks. It was nuts. When his randomness comes in line he is just sick. On the flip side in my game his durability was crappy and I kept rolling no FNPs but my dice on defense the entire game was crap. My offense I rolled well all the time. It is the nature of his randomness.

 

I get many players want more stable picks but part of the fun is the fact that he's so swingy. I don't think he's overcosted though.

Swingy can be fun, but imho iconic characters shouldn’t be too swingy.

rolling a 1 on a random attack feels bad enough on its own, let alone when it’s with a character who is supposed to be among the very best warriors in the entire imperium.

[HeadlessCross]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:23 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

And? So what if they don’t get the BA units?

BA don’t get victrix guard, calgar, tigurius, or any other UM specific units.

 

lone operative doesn’t remotely justify his price.

 

only 1 generic and 1 unique character can join SG, and only DC captains can join any DC unit.

 

That doesn’t really explain why other characters in the marine dex aren’t equally as cheap

 

thr iron father is nearly twice the price of a techmarine 

 

shrine is like 15 points more than generic jump captain

 

kantor is 10 more points than a generic captain 

vulkan is 20 more points than a generic captain.

 

none of those chapters have access to any special squads or vehicles either yet they’re more expensive than generic counter parts or UM counter parts.

ventris is 75 points and kantor is 90…I don’t really believe that kantor is that much better and still costs more than the BAC.

 

the DCC that can actually join a specialist BA unit is also 10 points cheaper than the BAC.

 

dante and minimum SG is 265 points compared to calgar and his guard at only 185 points.…the extra bodyguard model and jump pack don’t justify that points difference.

 

VG, gets 5 attacks at S5 hitting on 2+  AP-2 D2

SG swords (the best option) gets 4 attacks hitting on 3+ at S6 AP-3 D2.

so they’re relatively even, but the SG cost nearly as much as calgar and his guard…

I like how you say that 4 models is more expensive than 3 models LOL

 

Yeah Jump Packs matter a LOT, actually. Have you tried actually playing Calgar deathstar?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

I like how you say that 4 models is more expensive than 3 models LOL

 

Yeah Jump Packs matter a LOT, actually. Have you tried actually playing Calgar deathstar?

Where are you getting 3 models vs 4?

calgar and VG are 3 models. SG is 3 models.

 

[Brother Raul]

I think we have to factor in the overcharged psychic stats as his base shooting.

 

With his FNP we have to overcharge.

[RyanT2112]

6 hours ago, Brother Raul said:

I think we have to factor in the overcharged psychic stats as his base shooting.

 

With his FNP we have to overcharge.

 

His overcharged Psychic attacks are sick!

[HeadlessCross]

On 11/20/2024 at 3:20 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Where are you getting 3 models vs 4?

calgar and VG are 3 models. SG is 3 models.

 

Your comparison was Calgar + his guard vs Dante and minimum Sanguinary Guard. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Your comparison was Calgar + his guard vs Dante and minimum Sanguinary Guard. 

Great, the points between a unique hero and his 2 elite melee guard is still only 50 points. 
calgar, which is roughly equal to 1 SG.

 

do we really think calgar is only equal to a single SG+5 points?

 

calgar’s shooting is better than a standard SG, by like…a lot.

and his melee puts SG to shame regardless of which weapon option you select.

Edited November 22 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lord_Ikka]

In 10th, Mephiston is designed as a counter-charge character. He is not designed to buff other units, like every other librarian. His psychic shooting ability is not especially great, but it is also the only SM psychic power that is a Pistol and so can be combined with his plasma pistol to do extra chip damage while he is engaged (showing that he is again, designed as a melee character). His melee attacks are better than any other SM librarian, in number, strength, AP, and having higher/non-variable damage. 

 

So really, viewing him in comparison to all other SM librarians is really not applicable, as his basic design is completely different from what they are doing. In a lot of ways, he is fairly unique in SM unit options as he is a non-Vehicle/Monster character who is not a Leader and has Lone Op- the LT w/combo-weapon is the only one I can think off the top of my head that is also that way. It would be better to view him as something akin to the Swarmlord, a single-model unit that can hide in/behind ruins and then jump out and take a wack at units that have charged your forward troops. His price point seems fairly reasonable to me, as he should be able to kill off most of an elite squad like termies without too much difficulty. 

[HeadlessCross]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Great, the points between a unique hero and his 2 elite melee guard is still only 50 points. 
calgar, which is roughly equal to 1 SG.

 

do we really think calgar is only equal to a single SG+5 points?

 

calgar’s shooting is better than a standard SG, by like…a lot.

and his melee puts SG to shame regardless of which weapon option you select.

50 points is a HUGE difference, actually, as that's the difference between getting extra Scouts/Infiltrators or extra Enhancements. While yeah his shooting is fine, no his melee doesn't just put Sanguinary Guard to shame. On the charge it's still 15 WS3+ attacks at S8 AP-3 D2 on a minimum squad that's less likely to be hit in melee to boot. 

 

Your post just reads like someone lost to Ultramarines Vanguard and thinks Calgar is broken. 

[RyanT2112]

On 11/21/2024 at 10:46 PM, Lord_Ikka said:

In 10th, Mephiston is designed as a counter-charge character. He is not designed to buff other units, like every other librarian. His psychic shooting ability is not especially great, but it is also the only SM psychic power that is a Pistol and so can be combined with his plasma pistol to do extra chip damage while he is engaged (showing that he is again, designed as a melee character). His melee attacks are better than any other SM librarian, in number, strength, AP, and having higher/non-variable damage. 

 

So really, viewing him in comparison to all other SM librarians is really not applicable, as his basic design is completely different from what they are doing. In a lot of ways, he is fairly unique in SM unit options as he is a non-Vehicle/Monster character who is not a Leader and has Lone Op- the LT w/combo-weapon is the only one I can think off the top of my head that is also that way. It would be better to view him as something akin to the Swarmlord, a single-model unit that can hide in/behind ruins and then jump out and take a wack at units that have charged your forward troops. His price point seems fairly reasonable to me, as he should be able to kill off most of an elite squad like termies without too much difficulty. 

 

You hit the nail on the head. There's a reason he was in almost all top tournament winning lists since Codex drop.