How do I create an Imperial Fists army that's both thematic AND fun to play against?

[Antarius]

So, my friend has a Death Guard army which is at present just the AoD starter set, but it's all painted up, so he's pretty set on his legion. I was thinking I'd do Imperial Fists because a) I've always liked them b) I have some tanks with IF iconography on lying around, so it'd be a waste to not use them and c) I want to do something that can pull double duty in games of 4th edition WH40K.

So, my question to you is, given that DG has a reputation for being one of the weakest armies and IF has a reputation for being one of the strongest, what can I do to ensure that we both have a fun game and don't feel like we have to play too much against type, so to speak. My friend is, generally speaking, a pretty good player and (I think) with a tendency to put together slightly more competitive armies than me, but given the nature of these types of games, he probably feels the same way about me 

So, apart from "talk to your opponent", do you have any good advice on how to make an army that won't be overpowered and will be fun to play against but will still feel like IF? I'd like a lot of space marines and some rhinos, but apart from that I don't really have any requirements.

[Razorblade]

So first up, DG have an excellent legion trait that can easily offset their weaker units and RoWs.

 I would stay far away from the stone Gauntlet as it is ridiculously annoying to play against. 

Other than that there is nothing specifically overpowered or unfun about fists, and their unique units are actually pretty weak outside of stone Gauntlet.

[MARK0SIAN]

Other than stone gauntlet the only other thing that’s seriously annoying/unfun to play against with Imperial Fists are the Vigil Storm shields. Terminators rocking a 3++ is really hard to play against so I might stay away from the Huscarl squad.

 

Other than that I agree with Razorblade, it’s the RoW that makes Imperial Fists unfun to play against, not their units. 
 

Templar Brethren might be a fun way to go. They’re very thematic for Fists, they’re a cool unit who can do well but also can be countered by units that every legion has access to.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Who the heck says Death Guard are weak? Thier unique RoW's are nutty. Stone Guantlet I think is a little overrated too. It's great against elite armies that rely on rending and ap2 to walk over units but against heavy volumes of fire not so much. Just don't spam anything and you won't have a cheezy army. lol

[Antarius]

Thanks for your replies 

I guess maybe I'm just a little oversensitive to this kind of thing because it used to be a thing that caused problems in my group (although that is admittedly some time ago). I guess HH is also just less prone to huge balance issues, since everybody chooses from (almost) the same basic army list?

[LameBeard]

1 hour ago, Antarius said:

I guess HH is also just less prone to huge balance issues, since everybody chooses from (almost) the same basic army list?

Reasonable assumption but not sure it holds in practice - because points aren’t perfect, so optimised lists can still all look the same - e.g. early on a lot of contemptors, lascannon squads and Scorpius tanks (or was it one of the others?). And that becomes less fun if you lose the chance to take models you like. So I think you have the right attitude: finding something good but still fun for the opponent. 

[MARK0SIAN]

On 11/12/2024 at 3:11 PM, Antarius said:

Thanks for your replies 

I guess maybe I'm just a little oversensitive to this kind of thing because it used to be a thing that caused problems in my group (although that is admittedly some time ago). I guess HH is also just less prone to huge balance issues, since everybody chooses from (almost) the same basic army list?

There are still some balance issues but they’re largely within the players control. What I think separates HH from regular 40k is that there’s a lot less examples of particular armies just being outright better than others to the degree that it’s a walkover. I’m talking about the kind of disparity where, even without trying, Army A will basically auto win against Army B because army A is S-tier and army B is C-tier. 
 

In other words, you have to intentionally exploit the power disparities and cheesy combos in HH whereas in 40k it’s often been the case that you don’t have to deliberately exploit them, some armies have just been much better than others.

 

So I’m basically saying just build what seems cool and you’re very unlikely to put together an OP force by accident :)

[Razorblade]

On 11/11/2024 at 9:07 PM, OttoVonAwesome said:

Who the heck says Death Guard are weak? Thier unique RoW's are nutty. Stone Guantlet I think is a little overrated too. It's great against elite armies that rely on rending and ap2 to walk over units but against heavy volumes of fire not so much. Just don't spam anything and you won't have a cheezy army. lol

It's not so much that Stone Gauntlet is OP, it's that it's bloody annoying. These guys have at least a 75% chance to shrug of any given wound with absolutely no counterplay whatsoever 

[Heir of Sigismund]

1 hour ago, Razorblade said:

It's not so much that Stone Gauntlet is OP, it's that it's bloody annoying. These guys have at least a 75% chance to shrug of any given wound with absolutely no counterplay whatsoever 

Try 89% with cyber familiar boarding shield techmarine added 

 

If anything, DG possibly best legion trait for countering Stone Gauntlet- Volkite culverin HSS that can walk 

[Marshal Rohr]

Recon Company with their special shoguns on their troops. Trench Raider themed. 

[arnesh88]

Start with keeping your army varied. Outside of Line sub-types, double up on roles, not units.

 

That's been a good guide for my friends and I. If you're playing against the AoD box, that's 1500 pts. You can make adjustments from there on the way to 3000 pts. Army performing too well? Start looking at options that are more fun than optimized. Army performing poorly? Start looking at Scorpius, Dreadnoughts, Nemesis Bolt Rifles, legion specific units, allies, etc.

 

Don't be afraid of taking things that are on the stronger side if it's a model you genuinely enjoy playing or painting. The fact you're trying to watch yourself is a healthy mindset. Just go for an army you think will look cool on the table, with some synergy to have it feel good when playing.

Edited November 15 by arnesh88