40K Boxset Rumours (Krieg/EC)

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Heard some whispers about rumoured boxsets for EC & Krieg:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Summary:

Krieg is supposed be mainly Deathrider themed, Hq on a horse with more plastic troops mounted.

 

EC is supposed to have new Noise Marines, HQ and EC themed Legionnaires. 

[Lord_Ikka]

Why would EC have Legionnaires? Wouldn't it make more sense to have something like the other cult legions- a redone version of their classic unit, in this case Noise Marines, and then some sort of special unit that hasn't been featured before, a la Eightbound, Scarab Termies, or Blightlords? Seems like Slaanesh/EC could lean towards a unit of superb duelists, a melee squad with Fights First special rules, to fit in their theme. Just regular Legionnaires with an upgrade sprue to EC would be a letdown.

 

Edit- I'm not saying the rumor is untrue, I have no idea, just that it would be a weak version of a cult legion intro compared to the other three which all had bespoke new units.

Edited November 18 by Lord_Ikka

[ZeroWolf]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires? Wouldn't it make more sense to have something like the other cult legions- a redone version of their classic unit, in this case Noise Marines, and then some sort of special unit that hasn't been featured before, a la Eightbound, Scarab Termies, or Blightlords? Seems like Slaanesh/EC could lean towards a unit of superb duelists, a melee squad with Fights First special rules, to fit in their theme. Just regular Legionnaires with an upgrade sprue to EC would be a letdown.

 

Edit- I'm not saying the rumor is untrue, I have no idea, just that it would be a weak version of a cult legion intro compared to the other three which all had bespoke new units.

From what I gather this kit is bespoke (as in, not a night Lord upgrade sprue situation) so they're getting that and noise marines and other units. 

 

All we can do now is wait and see how things fall into place. However, if the timing is correct, we'll likely know by April time (or earlier we all know what a leaky ship GW is these days.)

[lansalt]

11 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires?

For what's worth, Noise Marines in the fluff are more like havocs/heavy support squads, a sub cult dedicated to the Song of Slaanesh. Most EC are just slaanesh-corrupted legionaries.

An EC upgrade sprue for the current CSM kit, like the NL one, makes a lot of sense. But a starter set implies full dedicated sprues (like the CSM release from 2019)

[Wormwoods]

Personally, I quite like it when the Legions aren't 4 different versions of the same thing. Give me a World Eater shooty unit that's reasonably OK in a scrap but has something bigger than a pistol. They don't even have to be good, just available as an option. 

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I guess that the "little tank drone" is Cyclops and the "special weapons squad" are the engineers with someone mistaking the drumm mag shotguns with grenade lunchers (they were in the earlier rumours iirc).

[DeadFingers]

54 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires? Wouldn't it make more sense to have something like the other cult legions- a redone version of their classic unit, in this case Noise Marines, and then some sort of special unit that hasn't been featured before, a la Eightbound, Scarab Termies, or Blightlords? Seems like Slaanesh/EC could lean towards a unit of superb duelists, a melee squad with Fights First special rules, to fit in their theme. Just regular Legionnaires with an upgrade sprue to EC would be a letdown.

 

Edit- I'm not saying the rumor is untrue, I have no idea, just that it would be a weak version of a cult legion intro compared to the other three which all had bespoke new units.

I don't know, it makes a lot of sense to me that the lowest rung in the Legion of perfectionist maniacs would be Legionnaries as opposed to some cannon fodder. And from the description Valrak's been given it sounds like a bespoke kit, as it'd be a rather tall order to match the old art just by adding an upgrade sprue to the Legionnaries kit. They probably aren't even called Legionnaries, they're just being called that as it's the most similar unit.

 

To me it sounds like they might be giving them slaaneshi troopers that have a "baseline" look so that they can go bananas with the Noise Marine (and other elite unit) designs, so that there can be constrast and the extremism of the Noise Marines actually pops out by comparison and stays at 11 instead of becoming the new 10. In other words, this:

 

 

If they actually pull it off I'd be very pleased, even if the roster is small. Every time I've thought about the potential look of standalone Emperor's Children, thinking that Noise Marines would be the bulk of the army, I've found myself wanting both the elegant, filigree-covered, graceful and prideful duellists, and the over the top Hellraiser-esque body horror glam metal nightmares. The issue being that trying to combine both while staying over the top could be a bit too much, but trying to find a middle ground would probably just end up looking like neither at all.

If they give us both the elegant warriors look and the glam metal body horror look by making them different units I'd be a very happy camper. I can only hope.

Edited November 18 by DeadFingers

[-DonCorleone-]

Maybe the basic troops will be called Noise Marines and the Sonic weapons team will be called Kakophonoi

 

I’m guessing the basic Krieg troops will be the kill team without the upgrade sprue for veterans

 

Edited November 18 by Dr_Ruminahui
Merged consecutive posts

[Handsome Fred]

Not sure if I hate more have to split the box with a csm player (at least find one) or have the codex locked behind a limited box and 3 months of waiting for the points.

 

But now I'm sure I'll have both problem with the kriegs.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

14 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

I don't know, it makes a lot of sense to me that the lowest rung in the Legion of perfectionist maniacs would be Legionaries as opposed to some cannon fodder. And from the description Valrak's been given it sounds like a bespoke kit, as it'd be a rather tall order to match the old art just by adding an upgrade sprue to the Legionnaries kit. They probably aren't even called Legionnaries, they're just being called that as it's the most similar unit.

 

To me it sounds like they might be giving them slaaneshi troopers that have a "baseline" look so that they can go bananas with the Noise Marine (and other elite unit) designs, so that there can be constrast and the extremism of the Noise Marines actually pops out by comparison and stays at 11 instead of becoming the new 10. In other words, this:

 

 

If they actually pull it off I'd be very pleased, even if the roster is small. Every time I've thought about the potential look of standalone Emperor's Children, thinking that Noise Marines would be the bulk of the army, I've found myself wanting both the elegant, filigree-covered, graceful and prideful duellists, and the over the top Hellraiser-esque body horror glam metal nightmares. The issue being that trying to combine both while staying over the top could be a bit too much, but trying to find a middle ground would probably just end up looking like neither at all.

If they give us both the elegant warriors look and the glam metal body horror look by making them different units I'd be a very happy camper. I can only hope.

 

This is what I mean EC Marines xD 

[Fire Golem]

Very very excited for the EC box. 

[Azaiel]

The Krieg Minitank/drone could be a goliath remote control bomb cyclops(?) that forgeworld made back in the the day.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires? Wouldn't it make more sense to have something like the other cult legions- a redone version of their classic unit, in this case Noise Marines, and then some sort of special unit that hasn't been featured before, a la Eightbound, Scarab Termies, or Blightlords? Seems like Slaanesh/EC could lean towards a unit of superb duelists, a melee squad with Fights First special rules, to fit in their theme. Just regular Legionnaires with an upgrade sprue to EC would be a letdown.

 

Edit- I'm not saying the rumor is untrue, I have no idea, just that it would be a weak version of a cult legion intro compared to the other three which all had bespoke new units.

In fairness, if we're getting bespoke legionnaires AND noise marines and the legionnaires are instead of basic mortals, this is definitely a win. The amount of bits and therefore conversion fodder could be a whole lot of fun. 

 

Also this isn't the whole release remember. Fulgrim for example isn't in the box but we know he and other stuff is coming. 

[Wormwoods]

2 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Fulgrim for example isn't in the box but we know he and other stuff is coming. 

Every demon Primarch that gets a 40K model pushes the countdown to another loyalist coming back, and I don't know how many more of those I have in me. 

[Fire Golem]

I’m really curious how they’re gonna differentiate the plastic Fulgrim from the excellent resin one. 

[01RTB01]

5 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

Every demon Primarch that gets a 40K model pushes the countdown to another loyalist coming back, and I don't know how many more of those I have in me. 

I certainly don't have the love for 40k that I did. I'll be looting the EC release for late heresy forces for 30k. 

 

Drowning 40k in primarchs feels like the ideas have run dry. However, that's a chat for elsewhere.

[m_r_parker]

6 minutes ago, Fire Golem said:

I’m really curious how they’re gonna differentiate the plastic Fulgrim from the excellent resin one. 

Price, I would guess.

plus a lot of people don’t like the big resin centre-pieces, so even if it’s a 1:1 conversion to plastic people will eat it up.

Not taking anything away from the fantastic sculpt, it’s truly

amazing, but can you imagine trying to transport that model???

[01RTB01]

4 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

Price, I would guess.

plus a lot of people don’t like the big resin centre-pieces, so even if it’s a 1:1 conversion to plastic people will eat it up.

Not taking anything away from the fantastic sculpt, it’s truly

amazing, but can you imagine trying to transport that model???

Yes, I've got a magnetised box for mine. 

[firestorm40k]

34 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

Every demon Primarch that gets a 40K model pushes the countdown to another loyalist coming back, and I don't know how many more of those I have in me. 

My Imperial Fists successor chapter are very much looking forward to the return of their Primarch 

 

Seriously though, whichever Primarchs do return, I look forward to seeing them get an awesome model   Even if some people don't like what it does to the lore/background, I'm a collector/painter foremost, so new Primarch models are something I actually welcome 

[01RTB01]

2 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires? 

As an aside, why wouldn't they? They fell hardest, fastest and aesthetically even their 'regular' marines are off the charts. Honestly, this is going to be awesome.

[Fire Golem]

1 hour ago, m_r_parker said:

Price, I would guess.

plus a lot of people don’t like the big resin centre-pieces, so even if it’s a 1:1 conversion to plastic people will eat it up.

Not taking anything away from the fantastic sculpt, it’s truly

amazing, but can you imagine trying to transport that model???

All very true. I’m just interested to see how the design of the model differs. 

[DeadFingers]

1 hour ago, Fire Golem said:

I’m really curious how they’re gonna differentiate the plastic Fulgrim from the excellent resin one. 

The whip from his Epic self would be a noticeable enough first step I'd wager. Maybe take a page from Magnus and Angron and keep the armour separate so you can build him bare-chested if you so desire. And last time Valrak mentioned him he spoke of head options and maybe weapon options too, so variety and/or modularity would also help. Maybe some Noise Marine-y bits like speakers and doom sirens on his armour?

Edited November 18 by DeadFingers

[StrangerOrders]

12 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

The whip from his Epic self would be a noticeable enough first step I'd wager. Maybe take a page from Magnus and Angron and keep the armour separate so you can build him bare-chested if you so desire. And last time Valrak mentioned him he spoke of head options and maybe weapon options too, so variety and/or modularity would also help. Maybe some Noise Marine-y bits like speakers and doom sirens on his armour?

I'd put money down on feathery white or ephereal wings since there is some art of that (although for the life of me I can't recall if its official or not), especially since that would make him stand out a bit more among the Chaos Primarchs so far in 40k. 

 

An interesting thing is that each Chaos Primarch in 40k has had a distinct wing style so far. Magni got raven wings, Morty got butterfly wings and Angron got bat wings. Swan wings or maybe more raptor-like wings would be pretty distinct.

 

Also going to bet that his armour will be more noticeably Astartes than the fairly abstracted variant in 30k. This one just a guess but the others have been derived from their 30k armour to some degree or other, Fulgrim Transfigured's armour seems to not have much to do with his mortal armor imo.

 

The head swaps probably have alot to do with his jaw and tongue if I had to wager, would not shock me to see a split-jaw option. 

 

Hope he keeps a bishounen look in at least one option but those seem to be more the result of luck than deliberate intent historically.

 

I doubt it would happen but it'd be rad if they gave him a Feathered Serpent look.

Edited November 18 by StrangerOrders

[LSM]

@Chapter Master Valrak Thanks as always for the work you do feeding our rumour-addiction!

 

If I may ask: has your source definitively called the ten-man squad "EC Legionaries", and the six-man squad "Noise Marines"? Or have you been given descriptions that you're putting names to?

 

//

 

We've been talking about this in the other thread(s), but the definition of "Noise Marine" has changed over the years. Since 2nd Edition's Codex: Chaos (1996) folded Noise Marines into the Rogue Trader lore for The Emperor's Children, Noise Marines had been portrayed as making up the Third in the same way that the other gods' Cult Troops made up their Cult Legions.

 

And I do mean folded in. To compare:

• Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness (1988): "While corrupt beyond Human comprehension, the Legionaries of the Emperor's Children are a savage fighting force. Like many of Slaanesh's followers, they seek and find a perverse enjoyment in battle. The danger of battle is a rediscovered thrill and aphrodisiac, allowing them to reach new extremes of debauchery."
• White Dwarf 144 (1991): "The louder and more discordant the noise the more extreme the emotional reaction provoked, and the more tawdry and vile seem the everyday sensations of life. Eventually only the din of battle and heightened screams of fear can stir the Noise Marine."
• Codex: Chaos (1996): "While corrupt beyond human comprehension, the Emperor's Children are a savage fighting force. Like many of Slaanesh's followers they have become what are known as Noise Marines. These crazed followers of the Lord of Pleasure have become depraved and totally decadent warriors who seek and find a perverse enjoyment in battle. The danger of combat is a rediscovered thrill and aphrodisiac, allowing them to reach new extremes of debauchery. The louder and more discordant the noise the more extreme the emotional reaction provoked, until only the din of battle and terrified screams of the enemy can stir them."

Jump forward to 2013's Index Chaotica: Noise Marines background e-book, and the Emperor's Children were still being portrayed the traditional way. Some excerpts:

• The 'ORIGINS' section tells the story of the Emperor's Children, before ending with: "Dedicated to Slaanesh and to seeking out every excess their bodies can experience, these Space Marines soon found their senses amplified. Most went on to become Noise Marines, twisted creatures addicted to extreme sensations."
• The 'GIFTS OF SLAANESH' section includes: "Although the staccato bark of the boltgun and the blast of exploding shells is music to a Noise Marine’s ears, many of their number specialize in the use of outlandish sound based weapons."
• The 'FOLLOWERS OF THE PRINCE OF PLEASURE' section includes the following (note how it only makes sense if one assumes the Emperor's Children are Noise Marines): "...the loyalty of the Noise Marines was a fickle thing. On rare occasion an entire Emperor’s Children army might take to the field, but most often their selfish ways and eternal quest for violent, sadistic indulgence quickly lead them to split once more into separate factions."
• Aside, note the following use of quotations around the word 'perfect' - something I feel often gets missed is that while the Emperor's Children pursue perfection, they're insane and not operating on most people's definition of the word: "The Chaos Space Marines of the Emperor’s Children are known for sporting surgical modifications and possessing outlandish mutations, which they see as making them more ‘perfect’ in the eyes of their twisted patron."
• The 'SONIC ASSAULT' section has much to say about Sonic Weapons, but it also says this: "Noise Marines prefer to do their damage up close and personal – for this not only ensures the optimum chance of devastation, but also better allows them to reap the gloried sounds of their handiwork. The exquisite ripping of flesh mixed to the backbeat of the chugging and growling retorts of their bolters is a symphony of which Noise Marines never tire. Ever attentive to the detail of their bloody work, the Noise Marines are known to use modified bolt shells – some of which scream, shriek, or howl as they plough towards their victim, leaving behind a contrail of gaudy purple tracer. Squads firing in unison will work hard to adjust the sequence of shell types to achieve refinement to their boltgun choir, a point of peculiarity unappreciated by any save their own sick kind."
• The 'SONIC ASSAULT' section additionally mentions: "Some of the Slaaneshii warriors opt for close combat weapons exclusively, enjoying the buzz of the chainsword and its shrill screams as it grates upon bone or armour. One such formation was that led by the infamous Noise Champion Volupus. A son of Chemos, Volupus went off to form his own warband: the Flickering Blades. These warriors strode into combat wielding lithe swords that sung a song of death with every swing. From out of their twisted armour stretched numerous writhing tongues, each mutant maw licking its lips in lewd anticipation of the blood-splattering of close combat."

In 2015, a painting guide:

 

In 2016 we see the release of Chris Wraight's The Path of Heaven, set ~four years into the Horus Heresy. In that there is an Emperor's Children subplot, a juxtaposition between Cario (a Perfector of the Palatine Blades, who looks upon the corruption taking hold of the Legion as "Fulgrim's perversions") and Konenos (an Orchestrator of the Kakophoni, who looks upon Cario's restraint as a disappointing lack of ambition). The latter conspires with Eidolon's equerry (flesh-crafter and amateur daemonologist Von Kalda) to force the matter, 'There are those, they tell me, who are not yet committed to enlightenment. They cling to older disciplines. They do not see the benefits of improvement...' Their plot goes awry, but in the end Cario looks upon the forces of Slaanesh and... decides that it's impossible to be as he is in the Emperor's Children, and commits suicide-by-White-Scar. "Unsullied..." he breaths out his last. This highlights the Emperor's Children where the understanding was that the Legion transitioned en masse into Slaanesh's Cult.

 

2016 also saw the release of Fabius Bile: Primogenitor, which came out and redefined Noise Marines. Both in what they were like (lofty zen-stoner monks, instead of tweeking maniac thrill-seekers) but in their relationship with the Legion. In those books, Noise Marines are a minor sub-cult - uniquely and entirely using Sonic Weapons - while other roles are taken by non-Noise Marines, in the fashion of an archetypically generic Chaos Space Marine army.

 

To highlight how this is a change, the story of Primogenitor tells of the Shattering of Lugganeth. Everyone who has read the book has a sense of how the story goes, but this story was first relayed in 2012's Codex: Chaos Space Marines, where it is presented with the wording (bolding mine): "At the heart of the plaza, several hundred Noise Marines combine their sonic weapons into a psychic explosion that thrums louder and louder throughout Lugganath's psychoplastic architecture until the air fills with screams." It's been awhile myself since I read Primogenitor, but the sense I got at the time was that the 12th Millennial was not fielding several hundred of its version of Noise Marines. (Though I admit I may be misremembering, and would gladly be corrected.)

 

The Black Library followed that lead in its subsequent portrayals of the Emperor's Children, and indeed the 8th and 9th edition Codexes also change their wording from "most" of the Emperor's Children becoming Noise Marines, to "many".

 

//

 

A detail of Valrak's video which caught my eye: the thumbnail is of a member of the Flawless Host.

 

I think it'd be a shame if the Emperor's Children became interchangeable with the Flawless Host - both for the Flawless Host's sake, and the Emperor's Children's. It would be as if the Death Guard were reimagined into The Purge.

 

 

Edited November 18 by LSM

[lansalt]

33 minutes ago, LSM said:

 It's been awhile myself since I read Primogenitor, but the sense I got at the time was that the 12th Millennial was not fielding several hundred of its version of Noise Marines

I don't recall how many they were, but the Noise marines in these books kept themselves apart from the rest of the other EC. They lived in their own area of Fabius' ship and didn't care about the power struggles going on, only about their "music"