40K Boxset Rumours (Krieg/EC)

[StrangerOrders]

16 minutes ago, lansalt said:

I don't recall how many they were, but the Noise marines in these books kept themselves apart from the rest of the other EC. They lived in their own area of Fabius' ship and didn't care about the power struggles going on, only about their "music"

Iirc the Twelth Millenial's former commander took pride in attracting alot of Noise Marines and they were like 30.

 

Those books did so much to make Noise Marines unsettling and terrifying incidentally.

 

Where your average EC is a jibbering addict, generally depraved onto recklessness and even outright idiocy they made the Noise Marines these really terrifying monks.

 

Able to walk in open vacuum without much concern, survive horrifying damage, sense people from great distances and with an unnatural intuition.

 

And able to kill titans, shake apart spacecraft and rip through fortifications when enough of them 'sing' at once.

 

They are almost more like the Greybeards from Skyrim. They 'sing', meditate on the 'song' and you are otherwise well advised to not bother them.

 

The idea that even their speech is painful for others to hear is really cool. 

 

Might just be the Tolkien nut in me, might be a deep-running dislike of Glam Rock, but Reynolds really elevated the dull-as-mud addict into these horribly enlightened monsters that scream reality into being.

 

One of the best excerpts was this one Noise Marine singing and screaming while reflecting on the fact that their song was a song of both preceeding and postdating the birth of Slaanesh, that they needed to sing so that Slaanesh could exist in the first place and that if they didn't they'd revert to their plain previous existance.

 

Idk, it creates a strange sort of metaphysics to them.

[LSM]

I love the Noise Marines in the Fabius Bile books. I just wish they hadn't been called the Noise Marines. I think it would have been better to make them an addition to the lore, rather than having overwritten the previous take.

 

My hope is that what Valrak is calling "Noise Marines" are actually Noise Marine Havocs/Kakophoni/Orchestrators/Choirmasters/Chordlords/Biggunhavers, and are the Black Library style Noise Marines, while what he's calling "EC Legionaries/Marines" are the original Noise Marines.

 

And people who don't like the Emperor's Children as a Cult Legion, and prefer the pre-Heresy Legion, have their ideal still playable in Codex: CSM. That way, everyone is happy!

 

Unfortunately, the lack of inlaid speakers on the previewed shoulder pads makes me think I'm going to end up a bit put out.

[Nephaston]

With this new EC battleline unit crystallizing to be a thing I'm starting to wonder about the name of the unit. If it is just gonna be "Emperors Children Legionnaires" would be kinda lazy.

How about "Degenerates".

 

Or more seriously maybe something reminiscent of the Legion days, maybe Hedonatii, or Degeneratii. Would also be copyright-able.

[StrangerOrders]

18 minutes ago, LSM said:

I love the Noise Marines in the Fabius Bile books. I just wish they hadn't been called the Noise Marines. I think it would have been better to make them an addition to the lore, rather than having overwritten the previous take.

 

My hope is that what Valrak is calling "Noise Marines" are actually Noise Marine Havocs/Kakophoni/Orchestrators/Choirmasters/Chordlords/Biggunhavers, and are the Black Library style Noise Marines, while what he's calling "EC Legionaries/Marines" are the original Noise Marines.

 

And people who don't like the Emperor's Children as a Cult Legion, and prefer the pre-Heresy Legion, have their ideal still playable in Codex: CSM. That way, everyone is happy!

 

Unfortunately, the lack of inlaid speakers on the previewed shoulder pads makes me think I'm going to end up a bit put out.

As much as I was drawn to the EC due to themes of sublime duelists (GW, give me corrupted Palatines and my life is yours!), vaguely Austrian vibes and burnout, I wouldn't open any orphan tear-laced champaigne yet.

 

Kakaphoni don't have speaker-inlaid shoulders either, it is entirely possible GW is heading in the direction you prefer but are not doing the inlaid shoulders.

 

Or they might even just have them on the other side, I feel like they have been on an aysmmetry binge lately. Which is smart since those designs tend to be eye-catching and sell well.

 

They'd especially make sense for EC.

 

...I do not like that I am selling the possibility that runs counter to my desires lol.

 

5 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

With this new EC battleline unit crystallizing to be a thing I'm starting to wonder about the name of the unit. If it is just gonna be "Emperors Children Legionnaires" would be kinda lazy.

How about "Degenerates".

 

Or more seriously maybe something reminiscent of the Legion days, maybe Hedonatii, or Degeneratii. Would also be copyright-able.

I will never forgive AoS for taking 'Hedonites'.

 

Maybe Celebrants?

Edited Monday at 05:26 PM by StrangerOrders

[LSM]

9 hours ago, Nephaston said:

With this new EC battleline unit crystallizing to be a thing I'm starting to wonder about the name of the unit. If it is just gonna be "Emperors Children Legionnaires" would be kinda lazy.

How about "Degenerates".

 

Or more seriously maybe something reminiscent of the Legion days, maybe Hedonatii, or Degeneratii. Would also be copyright-able.

 

Can I sell you on "Noise Marines"? 

 

When I was spitballing what I'd do for a EC release, I had dropped Bolters completely and broken Noise Marines into two kits: one ten-man unit with Sonic Weapons, and one five-man dual kit with either Chainswords and Doom Sirens or Duelling Sabres and Combat Drug Dispensers. The former I called Syranites (Siren + Sybarite), the latter Indolent Blades (playing on Palatine Blades, to highlight the change the Legion has undergone, rather than just porting forward a 30k unit).

 

//

 

9 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

As much as I was drawn to the EC due to themes of sublime duelists (GW, give me corrupted Palatines and my life is yours!), vaguely Austrian vibes and burnout, I wouldn't open any orphan tear-laced champagne yet...

 

I assume that Noise Champion Volupus and his Flickering Blades warband are most offended by the notion that Noise Marines can't be sublime duellists. 

 

I'm also more used to the Imperial Fists being the vaguely Prussian duellists. From their Index Astartes article:

• "The handful of Terran Battle Brothers brought a tradition of honour duels that was readily embraced by the Legion as a whole. Brothers still duel with swords following the same conventions."
• "Dusky-skinned, [Chief Librarian Franz] Grenstein's cheeks are criss-crossed with duelling scars."
• "The moon-faced Chaplain is marked by crater-like wounds incurred when his helmet failed him. The craters feature the duelling scars common to the Imperial Fists."

Hmmm... the Imperial Fists also love submitting themselves to the Pain Glove - a giant machine that wracks the whole body with torturous agony...

 

Imperial Fists: secret Slaanesh worshippers all along?

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:16 AM by LSM

[Indy Techwisp]

2 hours ago, LSM said:

A detail of Valrak's video which caught my eye: the thumbnail is of a member of the Flawless Host.

 

I think it'd be a shame if the Emperor's Children became interchangeable with the Flawless Host - both for the Flawless Host's sake, and the Emperor's Children's. It would be as if the Death Guard were reimagined into The Purge.

 

Just popping in to point out that all 40k Thousand Sons minis are based on and officially use the colour scheme of the Prodigal Sons (Ahriman's Personal Warband).

So making the entire Legion match one existing Warband instead of how they used to be portrayed isn't unheard of.

 

15 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

I will never forgive AoS for taking 'Hedonites'.

 

Maybe Celebrants?

 

Hedonites may be taken, but Hedonists isn't

Edited Monday at 05:41 PM by Indy Techwisp

[dalmer]

I would perhaps look for "hints" in EC books of late like "Renegades: Lords of Excess" (40k setting) and the Eidolon book (Heresy setting).

 

I haven't read the former but the latter clearly shows that not all EC are "noise marines" and like other have said those that are could care less about anything but the "music" so to speak.

 

 

[Borbarad]

Wierd that they didn’t pair EC up with Eldar who are due for release at a similar time as Guard 

[grailkeeper]

Csm Bikers v horse riders would have been thematic.

[LSM]

17 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Just popping in to point out that all 40k Thousand Sons minis are based on and officially use the colour scheme of the Prodigal Sons (Ahriman's Personal Warband).

So making the entire Legion match one existing Warband instead of how they used to be portrayed isn't unheard of.

 

What I was trying to say is that the Flawless Host is a Slaaneshi CSM warband - and not a Slaaneshi Cult warband, which the various Emperor's Children's warbands (IMO) should be.

 

To make the Thousand Sons comparison, would you want to see them synonymous with The Scourged? A Tzeentch CSM warband, not centred around their Cult Troops?

 

Edited Monday at 05:57 PM by LSM

[Redcomet]

6 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Why would EC have Legionnaires? Wouldn't it make more sense to have something like the other cult legions- a redone version of their classic unit, in this case Noise Marines, and then some sort of special unit that hasn't been featured before, a la Eightbound, Scarab Termies, or Blightlords? Seems like Slaanesh/EC could lean towards a unit of superb duelists, a melee squad with Fights First special rules, to fit in their theme. Just regular Legionnaires with an upgrade sprue to EC would be a letdown.

 

Edit- I'm not saying the rumor is untrue, I have no idea, just that it would be a weak version of a cult legion intro compared to the other three which all had bespoke new units.

Because not every EC unit is a noise marine unit…

[Indy Techwisp]

50 minutes ago, LSM said:

To make the Thousand Sons comparison, would you want to see them synonymous with The Scourged? A Tzeentch CSM warband, not centred around their Cult Troops?

*gestures at GW's obsession with stuffing every T-Sons appearance with Tzaangors*

 

On a more serious note, it seems that GW have settled on a vision of EC where Sonic Weapons are used frequently, but full blown "Noise Marines" are Specialists within the Legion as opposed to the basic Fodder Marine.

I mean, the image of a Marine with a Combi-Guitar or a Weaponised Surround Sound Speaker vaporising people with concentrated Hardbass is incredibly cool, but becomes significantly less so if every single Battleline Unit is doing that.

 

Plus for a Legion who during the Heresy were damned by their drive to be better than everyone else, it's fitting that instead of having a unique Mortal Cultist to act as cannon fodder they would get another type of Marine to fill that role.

[Marshal Loss]

EC box sounds incredible, and worth buying duplicates of for any self-respecting degenerate EC player. Cannot wait!

 

Less than 0 interest in playing 40k since 10th ed turned list building into AOS but I'll do up a force anyway and incorporate as many models/bits into my 30k EC as I can. Having the Legionnaires being a distinct kit from Noise Marines is such a huge win for us.

[Xanthous]

23 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Because not every EC unit is a noise marine unit…

It feels like this debate has occurred every fews weeks for the past 6 months, I'm surprised it's such an enduringly divisive topic.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

3 hours ago, LSM said:

@Chapter Master Valrak Thanks as always for the work you do feeding our rumour-addiction!

 

If I may ask: has your source definitively called the ten-man squad "EC Legionaries", and the six-man squad "Noise Marines"? Or have you been given descriptions that you're putting names to?

 

The Marines are just Emperors Children Marines, I called them Legionaries because the majority are still from that era. Basically their Emperors Children Chaos Marines, whips, boltguns, plasma guns etc. 

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

The Marines are just Emperors Children Marines, I called them Legionaries because the majority are still from that era. Basically their Emperors Children Chaos Marines, whips, boltguns, plasma guns etc. 

 

So it's "Normal Chaos Marines" and "Noise Marines", right?

Have you heard any word that the "EC Legionaries" have access to Sonic Weapons too?

[StrangerOrders]

27 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

The Marines are just Emperors Children Marines, I called them Legionaries because the majority are still from that era. Basically their Emperors Children Chaos Marines, whips, boltguns, plasma guns etc. 

Ty for your good works!

 

Sorry to be super specific but have you heard anything about their bare-headed sculpts? Kind of curious if we are going full Hellraiser with all sorts of mutilation/augmentation or if it is the more expected CSM fare (i.e angry horned man #12).

Edited Monday at 07:39 PM by StrangerOrders

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Speaking selfishly, the more Primarchs the better. The more 40k can transition into HH 2: Electric Boogaloo the better. 

 

Maybe the plastic Fulgrim will just be a plastic version of the resin one. It is a beautiful model but I've heard plenty of horror stories about assembling it and it's various weak points. A cheaper, easier to assemble plastic one with a few options would be cool. That said, what I expect is for the plastic version to have to have a much more exaggerated look to it in terms of corruption, a different pose and perhaps using different weapons. 

 

How would GW make Emperor's Children themed Chaos Space Marines different to regular Chaos Space Marines themed to Slaanesh?

 

I'm not overly familiar with the Legions (so please illuminate if I'm wrong) but have I got it right that:

 

ALL Legionnaires of the Death Guard became Plague Marines.

ALL Legionaries of the Thousand Sons became Rubrics - except the Psykers.

ALL of the Legionaries of the World Eaters became Berserkers but a minority use ranged weapons or vehicles (e.g Teeth of Khorne) as opposed to going exclusively melee.

SOME of the Legionaries of Emperor's Children became Noise Marines, SOME are just Slaanesh flavored Chaos Space Marines

[Indy Techwisp]

21 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

How would GW make Emperor's Children themed Chaos Space Marines different to regular Chaos Space Marines themed to Slaanesh?

 

I'm not overly familiar with the Legions (so please illuminate if I'm wrong) but have I got it right that:

 

ALL Legionnaires of the Death Guard became Plague Marines.

ALL Legionaries of the Thousand Sons became Rubrics - except the Psykers.

ALL of the Legionaries of the World Eaters became Berserkers but a minority use ranged weapons or vehicles (e.g Teeth of Khorne) as opposed to going exclusively melee.

SOME of the Legionaries of Emperor's Children became Noise Marines, SOME are just Slaanesh flavored Chaos Space Marines

 

As far as we've seen Currently:

ALL Death Guard became Plague Marines (every single DG Marine is some variant of a Plague Marine).

ALL World Eaters became Berserkers( i.e. had the Nails put in), but not all of those Berserkers are insane chainaxe nutters such as the Berserker Surgeons or Vehicle Crews.

MOST Thousand Sons became Rubrics, but everyone who didn't became a Super Psyker.

MOST Emperor's Children Marines remained Legionaries, but SOME (the Kakaphoni specifically) became Noise Marines.

 

As for how to differentiate EC Legionaries from CSM Legionnaires, firstly putting the EC Marines in their classic leather studded Mk6 Armour with Beaky Helms would help.

Other than that, giving them weapons Base CSM Legionnaires cannot take and putting some Slanneshi themed Mutations in the unit (for example, the unit's Champion having a Daemonette style Crab Claw).

Edited Monday at 08:28 PM by Indy Techwisp

[Nephaston]

4 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

ALL Legionnaires of the Death Guard became Plague Marines.

ALL Legionaries of the Thousand Sons became Rubrics - except the Psykers.

ALL of the Legionaries of the World Eaters became Berserkers but a minority use ranged weapons or vehicles (e.g Teeth of Khorne) as opposed to going exclusively melee.

SOME of the Legionaries of Emperor's Children became Noise Marines, SOME are just Slaanesh flavored Chaos Space Marines

 

Plague Marines: since Plague Marines are just any flavour of marine (power armour or terminator) that fully embraces Nurgle we can say that Death Guard are all Plague Marines of sorts, even if some are called blightlords. Other Nurgle warbands will probably not be all plague marines, i.e. The Purge

Rubrics: Any rubrics that exist are either victims of the original rubric of ahriman, and thus a regenerating force, or random marines tricked by sorcerers into a miniature version of the rubric, though the Thousand Sons specifically still might non-rubric marines or warbands.

Berzerkers: The World Eaters manage to get a constant influx from Renegades who are specifically not Berzerkers until a Berzerker Surgeon gets to drill some Nails into their skulls. As seen in "The Red Angel" where one of the protagonists is a traitor blood angel looking to join up. And even then Berzerkers as we know them are just the melee hogs without self control, while some of the Legion would feasibly have enough self control to employ something other than melee weapons and pistols.

 

Out of the cult legions EC are arguably the most sensible to not purely be Noise Marines as Excess takes many forms, and Noise Marines are kinda shoehorned into the sonic gun guys. WE would have more Zerkers than EC have Noise Marines, but they too should have some units that are not as single minded. Maybe in a later update.

DG being Plague Marines doesn't preclude them from performing any possible roles being one of the less shoe-horned roles, but they'll probably rarely employ tactics they're not used to like jump assault.

TS in the same way could have rubrics have a variety of roles, as being dusted wouldn't make the marine incapable of using melee weapons or heavy weapons, though something like jump packs would probably be replaced by something like minor psykers/chosen on disks of Tzeentch

 

[StrangerOrders]

35 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Speaking selfishly, the more Primarchs the better. The more 40k can transition into HH 2: Electric Boogaloo the better. 

 

Maybe the plastic Fulgrim will just be a plastic version of the resin one. It is a beautiful model but I've heard plenty of horror stories about assembling it and it's various weak points. A cheaper, easier to assemble plastic one with a few options would be cool. That said, what I expect is for the plastic version to have to have a much more exaggerated look to it in terms of corruption, a different pose and perhaps using different weapons. 

 

How would GW make Emperor's Children themed Chaos Space Marines different to regular Chaos Space Marines themed to Slaanesh?

 

I'm not overly familiar with the Legions (so please illuminate if I'm wrong) but have I got it right that:

 

ALL Legionnaires of the Death Guard became Plague Marines.

ALL Legionaries of the Thousand Sons became Rubrics - except the Psykers.

ALL of the Legionaries of the World Eaters became Berserkers but a minority use ranged weapons or vehicles (e.g Teeth of Khorne) as opposed to going exclusively melee.

SOME of the Legionaries of Emperor's Children became Noise Marines, SOME are just Slaanesh flavored Chaos Space Marines

Eh... the visual language is actually very simple.

 

The entire EC thing is excess and that is usually described as a mix of extreme mutilation, implants and opulence. 

 

The design language of the TS is clean and regal, with the visual language of rank being precisely how much the siren call of splashing in a water fountain appeals to you.

 

The DG is all rot and disease with visible and extravagant battle damage, the visual language of their ranks being tied to swelling, extra orifices' and generally terminators. 

 

The WE are improvised and practical by CSM standards, their trim is relatively basic and brutal, their visual language for their ranks is a story of their armor shedding and/or growing into them but even Eightbound look very restrained compared to CSM Possessed. 

 

CSM is a fairly straight trajectory for how much trim and cable-flesh you have on your person. 

 

EC's unifying language outside of noise is depravity and perfection, in an ideal world this would mean very sharp and disturbing juxtapositions in their appearance. Something the AoS Slaanesh faction really nails imo. 

 

Their design language would probably be closer the polar opposite to WE imo, somewhere between the fanciful armour of the TS or CSM with the mutation and grossness of the DG out the gate. I expect alot of piercings, trim (ugh) and sculpting on their armour to go with skin, needless tongues, etc. 

 

The language of rank would probably involve alot of scarification, mouth-speakers, gills, enormous eyes, etc along with more fluid and twisting fanciness like you see with your traditional Slaanesh look. Probably more 'fragile' looking than TS.

 

I fully expect Noise Marines to be decked out in fancy and regal armour that seems to be distorting but have any exposed skin be a horror show of scars, distended flesh over cabling and erupting speakers for example.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Regarding @Indy Techwisp point about the TS:

 

Did we ever get a good explanation for the Sekhment? It never made any sense to me for the coterie of some of the Legion's strongest Psykers to get wiped out.

 

I get the weird sense someone in GW wanted termi Rubrics and a recognizable name and just said 'f-it' to the rest.

Edited Monday at 08:39 PM by StrangerOrders

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, StrangerOrders said:

The design language of the TS is clean and regal, with the visual language of rank being precisely how much the siren call of splashing in a water fountain appeals to you.

 

You put TS rather than DG for the Death Guard section.

Anyway, TSons also have a bit of "Juxtaposition" going on because the stronger of a Sorc you are, the more you start growing Feathers, Blue Horror arms, Talons or a literal bird for a head.

It's all clean to a point, after which the mutation aspect of Tzeentch rears it's ever-changing head.

[StrangerOrders]

6 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

You put TS rather than DG for the Death Guard section.

Anyway, TSons also have a bit of "Juxtaposition" going on because the stronger of a Sorc you are, the more you start growing Feathers, Blue Horror arms, Talons or a literal bird for a head.

It's all clean to a point, after which the mutation aspect of Tzeentch rears it's ever-changing head.

I was maybe being a bit too glib, the water fountain joke was with regards to the bird mutations making you want to go splash around in a fountain.

 

Mostly because its really funny to imagine the Planet of Sorcerors having cyclopean fountains where Exalted Sorcerors' sit and fluff their feathers while splashing around and chirping. 

 

 

Like this but with more Nemes

Edited Monday at 08:46 PM by StrangerOrders

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, StrangerOrders said:

 Regarding @Indy Techwisp point about the TS:

 

Did we ever get a good explanation for the Sekhment? It never made any sense to me for the coterie of some of the Legion's strongest Psykers to get wiped out.

 

I get the weird sense someone in GW wanted termi Rubrics and a recognizable name and just said 'f-it' to the rest.

 

The Rubric of Ahriman wiped out all but the Strongest Psykers, yes.

That apparently includes those Strong of Will.

The Sekhmet were really powerful, but almost fully subservient to Magnus, being described as Automa-like even before the Rubric was cast.

Since they essentially had no strong will to back up their raw strength, Tzeentch dusted all but the most independent of them.

 

Basically Tzeentch went "If you wanna pretend to be silent automa, you can BE silent automa."

Edited Monday at 09:41 PM by Indy Techwisp

[ThaneOfTas]

9 hours ago, Fire Golem said:

I’m really curious how they’re gonna differentiate the plastic Fulgrim from the excellent resin one. 

Give him the last Crone Sword