40K Boxset Rumours (Krieg/EC)

[Emperor Ming]

Ah, so that's how they are gonna pad out the Krieg box, deathriders

 

3 death riders, 10 guardsmen, sentinel, codex. 150?

 

Hopefully that's miles off

[General Strike]

If we get Emperor's Children special marines, Noise Marines as their own thing, and a unique melee unit alongside Fulgrim and Lucius and a couple generic characters I will honestly be happy. While I would love special Termies and Sonic Dreads, I don't want to be greedy.

[StrangerOrders]

49 minutes ago, General Strike said:

If we get Emperor's Children special marines, Noise Marines as their own thing, and a unique melee unit alongside Fulgrim and Lucius and a couple generic characters I will honestly be happy. While I would love special Termies and Sonic Dreads, I don't want to be greedy.

In fairness 'Custom Dreads would be nice' is the collective war cry of every single Cult Legion and Divergent Chapter player.

 

After all, few things resonate in the heart of a marine player as much as the question "What if my guys could be half-zombified balls of withered flesh piloting a giant mecha while complaining about the youth?"

 

It is just a beautiful concept that is guaranteed to sell. Even Tournie players seem to jump on the corpse walkers whenever they are remotely playable.

 

Which is why I maintain they are coming later across the board, GW is probably saving them for windfalls if they ever have a rainy day.

[Vesalius]

I’m really hoping the EC have lots of neat head options like the old slaaneshi renegades.

[Wispy]

6 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

In fairness 'Custom Dreads would be nice' is the collective war cry of every single Cult Legion and Divergent Chapter player.

Forgeworld used to do these with MKIV dreadnoughts. :(

 

The Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and Nurgle Dreadnought were the best of the bunch.

Edited November 19 by Wispy

[Borbarad]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

Forgeworld used to do these with MKIV dreadnoughts. :(

I’m surprised how little attention the standard dreadnought enjoy in 30k. They didn’t even bother to re-release the great looking MKIV in plastic. It’s all about Contemptors and their bigger cusins. 

[sarabando]

1 hour ago, Borbarad said:

I’m surprised how little attention the standard dreadnought enjoy in 30k. They didn’t even bother to re-release the great looking MKIV in plastic. It’s all about Contemptors and their bigger cusins. 

theres plenty of support for the cult of the box dread. The problem is that the classic mk4 is hard to find even in less than legit sources, the most common is the ironclad mk4, 

 

IF FW redid all their box dreads they would sell really well. As would new chaos dreads i think, personally i would do a chaos dread then do upgrade sprues for each chaos legion and make the hell brute an upgrade option. 

[Fire Golem]

I never really liked box dreads all that much, and loved the Contemptor as soon as it came out. But the humble Castraferrum has really grown on me recently and a new plastic one at some point would be ace. 

[LSM]

21 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Because not every EC unit is a noise marine unit…

 

I know that people pointing to the 3.5 Codex is annoying, but in that iteration every EC unit was a Noise Marine. The other three Cult Legions have been realised in the fashion of that book, I'd like the Emperor's Children to as well.

 

//

 

20 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

*gestures at GW's obsession with stuffing every T-Sons appearance with Tzaangors*

 

On a more serious note, it seems that GW have settled on a vision of EC where Sonic Weapons are used frequently, but full blown "Noise Marines" are Specialists within the Legion as opposed to the basic Fodder Marine.

I mean, the image of a Marine with a Combi-Guitar or a Weaponised Surround Sound Speaker vaporising people with concentrated Hardbass is incredibly cool, but becomes significantly less so if every single Battleline Unit is doing that.

 

Plus for a Legion who during the Heresy were damned by their drive to be better than everyone else, it's fitting that instead of having a unique Mortal Cultist to act as cannon fodder they would get another type of Marine to fill that role.

 

Tzaangors may not be what Thousand Sons players want, but an army of The Scourged will not have them. Nor will they have Infernal Masters, but they might have Masters of Execution. Legionaries and Chosen, etc. And an odd unit of Rubrics, in support.

 

To me, that's what stripping the Noise out of the Emperor's Children is doing. Turning us from Slaanesh Cult Warbands into Slaanesh CSM Warbands. Indistinguishable from the Flawless Host (who I love for themselves, and do not wish to step on the toes of).

 

//

 

Black Library has definitely settled on (since Primogenitor) Noise Marines being a noted-but-minor sub-group, solely and uniquely using Sonic Weapons, lofty zen-stoner monks who need to be enticed to leave their roosts and join the fray. The sound unsubtly sucked out of the manic, tweeking, thrill-seeker battle-addicts that make up the majority of the Third.

 

THIS QUIET OFFENDS SLAANESH.

 

But using that as justification for not making the Emperor's Children Noise Marine based is a weird logic, to me. The Emperor's Children were Noise Marine based for decades, and Noise Marines were very broad in their options - probably the broadest of all the Cult Troops, especially when Plague Marines and Thousand Sons Marines were more Bolter locked. To change that in half a dozen novels, and then say because of that change we can't do a Noise Marine focussed army... 

 

Noise Marines have only ever been, codex-wise, Sonic Weapon locked from '99-'02. And note that Sonic Blasters at the time had the same stats as a Bolter, except Assault 2/Heavy 3 instead of Rapid Fire. A Noise Marine with Sonic Blaster (and Fearless) cost twice the points of a regular CSM (30 vs 15) for that privilege. Up to three could upgrade to Blastmasters or Doom Sirens, and the Champion could take a Doom Siren. Hideously expensive, points wise, and fairly good shooting, but not at all hard to put down.

 

I agree that an entire army wielding Sonic Blasters would be less cool. An entire army of Noise Marines does not need to wield Sonic Blasters.

 

I think that a real, proper Heavy/Elite style Noise Marine squad should be using Blastmasters anyway. Those are the true big guns. Currently, Sonic Blasters are 24" Assault 3 S5 AP0 D1. Is a unit of six of those particularly scary? (Well, maybe to Orks...)

 

The Death Guard have Plague Marines as their Battleline. They then have two types of Plague Marine Terminators, nine Plague Marine Characters, one Plague Marine Mortal Champion, a suite of themed daemon engines, and a unit of chaff. A Cult Legion. I want that for Emperor's Children.

 

You could have Noise Marines with Bolters and Sonic Blasters and Bolt Pistols and Chainswords (and nuero-whips, and combat knives) as your Battleline. And then Noise Marine ~Destroyers with Doom Sirens and Chainswords, Noise Marine ~Palatine Blades with Duelling Sabres and Combat Drug Dispensers, Noise Marine ~Havocs with Blastmasters and some new toys, Noise Marine ~Phonics Terminators with Warp Amps and Sonic Blasters and Lightning Claws (or what you will).

 

//

 

And yes, I realise that the release will be more limited than the Death Guard in numbers. But I still want that foundation. If Death Guard were limited to six kits and had just gotten Mortarion, Typhus, Lord of Contagion, Plague Marines, Blightlord Terminators, and Poxwalkers, I'd consider that a solid Cult Legion release.

 

And if Emperor's Children are Fulgrim, Lucius, Lord (with Doom Siren, etc.), Legionaries (with some sonic stylings; inlaid speakers, etc.), "Noise Marines" (with Blastmasters), and Swordsmen (with Combat Drug Dispensers and Sonic Shriekers), then I'll be overjoyed. Despite the name "Noise Marine" being applied in a narrowed ("Flanderized"?) fashion, that'll still be the Emperor's Children as their classical Noise Marine Cult Legion selves.

 

If the Emperor's Children are Fulgrim, Lucius (stripped of his armour's Doom Siren effect), Lord (~Flawless Host), Legionaries (~Flawless Host), Noise Marines (with Sonic Blasters, and a Blastmaster), and Swordsmen (~Flawless Host), I'll be disappointed. (I'll still kitbash all the new stuff to make my own Noise Marine Swordsmen, etc. and play my Noise Marine army.)

 

Edited November 19 by LSM

[Mogger351]

I think the "why isn't every emperors children a noise marine" discussion likely needs leaving. People are quite rooted in their opinions which have been cited repeatedly over the last few months and will be again over the next few. Some appreciate the diversification of marine, others less so. 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

And if Emperor's Children are Fulgrim, Lucius, Lord (with Doom Siren, etc.), Legionaries (with some sonic stylings; inlaid speakers, etc.), "Noise Marines" (with Blastmasters), and Swordsmen (with Combat Drug Dispensers and Sonic Shriekers), then I'll be overjoyed. Despite the name "Noise Marine" being applied in a narrowed ("Flanderized"?) fashion, that'll still be the Emperor's Children as their classical Noise Marine Cult Legion selves.

 

To be fair, the image Valrak used for the thumbnail isn't an image officially provided by GW or whatever, so it may not be fully accurate.

Plus all we've seen Model wise so far are 3 Shoulder Pads and if GW's track record with (post TSon) Cult Marine design is anything to go by those Shoulders are gonna be asymmetrical, so the Speakers could just be on the other Shoulder Pad.

 

Regarding the "EC Legionaries" thing, what I've quoted above is what I think we're actually getting.
Looking at the old Designs from Jes (which have served as a main inspiration for how the Cult Legions look in 40k for the other 3), the old Slaaneshi Renegade does have some Speaker elements in the design and is shown alongside a Noise Marine depiction (which I think is unique to EC since the other 3 just had one type of renegade).
I would predict that your EC Characters are going to be more Sonic themed than the baseline EC Marines, but not quite as Tricked out as the Noise Marines are (except whatever Noise Marine character you'll eventually get).

 

Edited to add:

Since this "EC Legionnaires" unit is supposedly a completely new kit and not just an Upgrade Sprue, we can assume that even if they're essentially just CSM Legionnaires in stats, they must have diverged enough from that CAD to justify being a wholly new kit.

 

Also, all the CSM Vehicle Sprues still come with the Sonic Speaker thing in them, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suggest that EC will also be getting those on their vehicles.

Edited November 19 by Indy Techwisp

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

So if Emperor's Children get Legionaries and Noise Marines, does that open the door for other Legions getting additional infantry kits?

 

Maybe the EC are only getting the one cult troop unit but whoever is passing the info on has seen the same kit but with different options and that's the confusion? 

[DeadFingers]

1 minute ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Maybe the EC are only getting the one cult troop unit but whoever is passing the info on has seen the same kit but with different options and that's the confusion? 

Valrak has specifically mentioned units of 10 for the Legionnaries and 6 for the Noise Marines, so this is not the case (as long as he's correct).

[StrangerOrders]

1 hour ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

So if Emperor's Children get Legionaries and Noise Marines, does that open the door for other Legions getting additional infantry kits?

 

Maybe the EC are only getting the one cult troop unit but whoever is passing the info on has seen the same kit but with different options and that's the confusion? 

Quick note that this thread is him talking about the launch box.

 

In terms of their general release, he also mentioned some sort of elite possessed close combat unit. We know far less about them but they might well be some sort of cult unit. Like extreme Palatines, CC Noise Marines or something inbetween.

 

DG could use some speed, WE some ranged support and TS some anything really though. They can still be culty but the armies all have some glaring gaps which are potential for future expansion.

[Indy Techwisp]

23 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

DG could use some speed, WE some ranged support and TS some anything really though. They can still be culty but the armies all have some glaring gaps which are potential for future expansion.

 

DG gets the world's slowest but toughest Flying Infantry (2+ save "Jump Pack" Assault Marines borne aloft by Mutated Fly Wings that move Slow as hell Warp).

WE get something like the Teeth of Khorne (Havocs, but basically ALL Autocannons), but with a focus on literally shooting into active melee brawls or something.

TSons could get any of their unique HH things (and it looks like we might be, with the hinted at PsyAutoma) but it would be funny as hell if we got a 40k version of the Ammitara Occult Intercession Cabal and Numerologist, Horus Heresy TSons Units that we have with no actual Model for.

[HeadlessCross]

27 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

DG gets the world's slowest but toughest Flying Infantry (2+ save "Jump Pack" Assault Marines borne aloft by Mutated Fly Wings that move Slow as hell Warp).

WE get something like the Teeth of Khorne (Havocs, but basically ALL Autocannons), but with a focus on literally shooting into active melee brawls or something.

TSons could get any of their unique HH things (and it looks like we might be, with the hinted at PsyAutoma) but it would be funny as hell if we got a 40k version of the Ammitara Occult Intercession Cabal and Numerologist, Horus Heresy TSons Units that we have with no actual Model for.

On top of the problem of being kicked out of the main CSM codex, Thousand Sons suffer from Rubric Marines being part of "Build only the kit". Give them options for Warpflame Heavy Bolters or Autocannons and you make them a lot more flexible as a generalist pick. 

[Indy Techwisp]

5 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

On top of the problem of being kicked out of the main CSM codex, Thousand Sons suffer from Rubric Marines being part of "Build only the kit". Give them options for Warpflame Heavy Bolters or Autocannons and you make them a lot more flexible as a generalist pick. 

We have an Autocannon, just only one per unit.

(The Soulreaper is an Autocannon, right? or is it an Assault Cannon...)

[01RTB01]

With respect, the rubric loadout chat has nowt to do with EC/ Krieg. Could that be moved elsewhere?

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

We have an Autocannon, just only one per unit.

(The Soulreaper is an Autocannon, right? or is it an Assault Cannon...)

It's an Assault Cannon LOL. I have several ways I would fix CSM and Loyalist Scum but that's a whole thread in of itself. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Getting back on topic, we've had plenty of discussion about the EC side of this video but barely any about the Kreig side of things.

 

Deathrider focused Kreig is very interesting, but I thought Guard were meant to be getting more stuff than just that?

Unless it's literally just a box of Cav and all the other stuff comes later.

[DeadFingers]

10 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Getting back on topic, we've had plenty of discussion about the EC side of this video but barely any about the Kreig side of things.

 

Deathrider focused Kreig is very interesting, but I thought Guard were meant to be getting more stuff than just that?

Unless it's literally just a box of Cav and all the other stuff comes later.

Of course, this is supposed to just be a boxset with the limited edition Codex. It's not just the Death Riders in there either, there's also an HQ (captain or commissar), some special weapons squad and an artillery piece. Then, besides the models in this box there's supposedly also a Krieg Command Squad, another HQ (captain or commissar), and maybe some sappers/engineers.

 

We're most likely seeing some, if not all of these in a couple days anyway. At least the boxset I'd wager.

Edited November 20 by DeadFingers

[RS1169]

Are we sure it won’t be just the base chaos marine kit but with a suped up upgrade sprue?  

Like the night lords one from kill team… but more (you know… excess) 

 

I could see them doing that instead of an entire new kit for the EC marines portion. Then have noise marines be the dedicated kit. 

[HeadlessCross]

7 minutes ago, RS1169 said:

Are we sure it won’t be just the base chaos marine kit but with a suped up upgrade sprue?  

Like the night lords one from kill team… but more (you know… excess) 

 

I could see them doing that instead of an entire new kit for the EC marines portion. Then have noise marines be the dedicated kit. 

Better not hope it's the same people writing the rules. The Night Lords kill team got rules today and they're pretty bad LOL

[ZeroWolf]

While it remains to be seen, rumours seem insistent that it is a bespoke kit. Plus that in of itself seems more like a kill team thing so not the kind of thing that would be in a box set.

 

That being said, keeping expectations low is the best approach for everyone. I mean, we've only got 6-7 months* tops to wait it out 

 

*hopefully earlier but this puts it just before Space Wolves are rumoured to drop

[Dark Shepherd]

On 11/19/2024 at 9:47 PM, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

So if Emperor's Children get Legionaries and Noise Marines, does that open the door for other Legions getting additional infantry kits?

 

Maybe the EC are only getting the one cult troop unit but whoever is passing the info on has seen the same kit but with different options and that's the confusion? 

I am convinced that one of his sources works in the warehouse and passes on details from the boxes when they arrive for assembly