Grotmas Calendar 2024 - New Detachments Edition

[Indy Techwisp]

So what Factions do we still have to go anyway?

 

Sisters tomorrow for certain.

World Eaters are the only Chaos left.

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars amd Grey Knights left for Marines.

T'au left for Xenos.

 

That's everyone, right?

Or has someone been missed...

 

Edit: Sisters today, not tomorrow.

It's 6 in the morning, I should know that.

 

Edit 2: Forgot Grey Knights.

Edited December 19 by Indy Techwisp
Correcting me being an idiot

[Borbarad]

44 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars amd Grey Knights left for Marines.

 

Grey Knights are already released 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, Borbarad said:

Grey Knights are already released 

 

Y'know, I completely missed that

[Mogger351]

36 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Y'know, I completely missed that

Just how the Inquisition like it.

[Wormwoods]

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

[jaxom]

3 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

Seems like it would have been good before the dataslate slashed miracle dice generation.

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

 

I'm going to enjoy this Sisters Detachment.

Mostly because my main Sisters opponent loves Paragon Warsuits and Celestian Sacrasants specifically and this might finally convince them to swap their Detachment away from Bringers of Flame.

[Borbarad]

14 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

No Sisters in my vicinity so can’t really comment on it; other than it’s an interesting pattern on what it tries to achieve, and what it implys for the upcoming detachements / codices. 

[redmapa]

15 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

 

It seems like a straightforward detachment, your elite units do better regardless of the number on your miracle dice, I think this sort of token mechanic works much better than current fate/miracle dice as it doesn't negate the core of the game which is dice rolling.

 

So BA tomorrow, they're probably keeping SW for Christmas considering Grimnar might as well be Santa with his silly sled.

[Indy Techwisp]

Actually, I do have a Comment about the design.

The current Dominion unit is the old Dominion and Celestian units merged together into one Assault unit with 4 special weapons.

With that in mind, I would've assumed they would be called out as a target to benefit from this?

I guess maybe they didn't because they wanted it on the Battleline instead.

 

Edit: Another thought.

This Detachment wants you to use your miracle dice differently than all the others, which is skewing opinions.

Sisters having just had their number of Miracle Dice reduced seem to have been hit really hard by this until you consider that it's an entire Detachment of the Palatines ability to go absolutely insane in Melee if you spend a Miracle Dice.

This Detachment paradoxically wants 1s and 2s on the Dice so the question of "Do I spend this to guarantee a roll or to trigger my ability?" isn't even a consideration.

Edited December 19 by Indy Techwisp

[Muck1ng]

the Sisters one is meh, they've just hugely nerfed Miracle Dice into the ground...

[Indy Techwisp]

For the record, Sisters Reddit is saying this is Dead on Arrival, a Mockery to them, worse than them not getting a Detachment at all, a  waste of data  etc.

 

Such an angry response to "This Detachment doesn't give a flying frak about what you roll, just yeet the dice."

 

Edit:

To clarify on this.

The Detachment is "Dead on Arrival" because you can't... *checks notes*... "Power up 3 units every turn and still have 6-8 Miracle Dice left over".

Edited December 19 by Indy Techwisp

[Karhedron]

17 minutes ago, Muck1ng said:

the Sisters one is meh, they've just hugely nerfed Miracle Dice into the ground...

 

On the other hand, you can use 1s to buff a whole unit for a turn which is a pretty good return on a dud roll.

[Indy Techwisp]

I guarantee that if Miracle Dice hadn't been nerfed, this Detachment would still be called "Dead on Arrival" for only allowing you to buff 3 units a turn.

[DemonGSides]

15 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

On the other hand, you can use 1s to buff a whole unit for a turn which is a pretty good return on a dud roll.

 The buffs suck though, so it's really not very good.

 

If miracles dice hasn't got gutted I think there might be some play. As is, it's below mediocre. Might be the worst one besides the Assassins one, but at least that one has some flavor behind it. This one just stinks. 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, DemonGSides said:

 The buffs suck though, so it's really not very good.

 

If miracles dice hasn't got gutted I think there might be some play. As is, it's below mediocre. Might be the worst one besides the Assassins one, but at least that one has some flavor behind it. This one just stinks. 

 

If the Miracle Dice hadn't been Gutted it would still suck because only 3 units being Buffed.

Like, sure, that's 3 units being buffed, but what am I supposed to do with the other 30 Miracle Dice I have here?

With prior Miracle Dice, this may as well have said "Choose 3. They are buffed." with no cost because you were near guaranteed to have about 5 on hand at any given time.

It works.

It's a Detachment that will actually need people to play it to get a good feel for it, because as it stands now everyone is ing on it because it's not Pre-Nerf Bringers of Flame levels of broken and wants them to use Miracle Dice as a resource rather than a Slot Machine.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Wormwoods said:

We got anything to say about the new Sisters detachment, or are we all getting a bit burnt out at this point?

Pre Dataslate, I think this could've been an interesting, if not strong, option to use. After this dataslate, absolutely not. 

 

I would revisit it again after the next Dataslate to see if GW switched up miracle dice generation. It was super dumb before, but the hit was pretty brutal regardless. 

[chapter master 454]

35 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 The buffs suck though, so it's really not very good.

 

If miracles dice hasn't got gutted I think there might be some play. As is, it's below mediocre. Might be the worst one besides the Assassins one, but at least that one has some flavor behind it. This one just stinks. 

How does it suck? More movement is something that can be a big deal, even 1" can make units reach when they might not have.

Or is it a case of "it doesn't boost my WS/BS on every unit" so it's bad? Ain't Paragon warsuits hot right now? That's a serious boost and the detachment seems to lean towards the sacresants.

 

Then again, suppose it's hard to make them happy when they and the Aeldari are getting forced to actually, you know, play the game of dice. Sorry buddy but you got to roll them, can't just say "oh hey look I got a 6 for my melta". Pretty sure if the sister codex hadn't come out when it had, it would of been on the same chopping block as aeldari for losing their miracle dice mechanic and being reworked into "miracle tokens" or something.

 

I think it looks good. Certainly got something in there, I ain't no sister player but I think it has legs.

[HeadlessCross]

4 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

How does it suck? More movement is something that can be a big deal, even 1" can make units reach when they might not have.

Or is it a case of "it doesn't boost my WS/BS on every unit" so it's bad? Ain't Paragon warsuits hot right now? That's a serious boost and the detachment seems to lean towards the sacresants.

 

Then again, suppose it's hard to make them happy when they and the Aeldari are getting forced to actually, you know, play the game of dice. Sorry buddy but you got to roll them, can't just say "oh hey look I got a 6 for my melta". Pretty sure if the sister codex hadn't come out when it had, it would of been on the same chopping block as aeldari for losing their miracle dice mechanic and being reworked into "miracle tokens" or something.

 

I think it looks good. Certainly got something in there, I ain't no sister player but I think it has legs.

Nah it has zero legs with the current Miracle Dice LOL

 

Still better than what Thousand Sons got at least!

[DemonGSides]

31 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

How does it suck? More movement is something that can be a big deal, even 1" can make units reach when they might not have.

Or is it a case of "it doesn't boost my WS/BS on every unit" so it's bad? Ain't Paragon warsuits hot right now? That's a serious boost and the detachment seems to lean towards the sacresants.

 

Then again, suppose it's hard to make them happy when they and the Aeldari are getting forced to actually, you know, play the game of dice. Sorry buddy but you got to roll them, can't just say "oh hey look I got a 6 for my melta". Pretty sure if the sister codex hadn't come out when it had, it would of been on the same chopping block as aeldari for losing their miracle dice mechanic and being reworked into "miracle tokens" or something.

 

I think it looks good. Certainly got something in there, I ain't no sister player but I think it has legs.

 

Miracle dice kinda suck right now and as mentioned, the buffs can't even hit everyone just a small amount of units. The buffs themselves are also anemic; you can absolutely think 1" extra of movement is good, but other factions enjoy flat 6" movement on their bonuses for a single unit, so I'm not sure it's that great if a bonus.  The ws/be is nice, for sure, but then your stuck with the mediocre enhancements and meh strategems for 3 units per turn MAYBE getting slightly better.  You're taking a detatchment to get what an ancient brings to other armies.  Like even in comparison just within the faction, there's a detatchment that gets you 3" move across the whole army as long as they are keyworded.  This detatchment has keyword restriction AND then a max unit cap on top of it. That's stinky.

 

I'm not really sure who you're angry at with the middle paragraph; I don't play sisters or Eldar so idk what dunking you're trying to accomplish. I think any mechanic that reduces variability needs to have sharp downsides but GW disagrees, of at least did. They're trying to make them better, at least; changing miracle dice and moving Fate Dice to a single detatchment are steps in the right direction. 

 

I'm not sure why you think it looks good, in my opinion you haven't put a compelling case forwards.  Meager buffs when compared to other options, two of the units you're applying the buffs to are t3 and will get evaporated.  I think most of the "choose three units" type detatchments are non starters and this one isn't much different.  The enhancements are all fine at best, and the strategems are just boring. 

Edited December 19 by DemonGSides

[Borbarad]

What i like about the sisters detachment is, that it meaningfully interacts with the army rule; something that is missing from the daemon, chaos knights, votann and some other detachments. 

[Indy Techwisp]

22 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Miracle dice kinda suck right now and as mentioned, the buffs can't even hit everyone just a small amount of units. The buffs themselves are also anemic; you can absolutely think 1" extra of movement is good, but other factions enjoy flat 6" movement on their bonuses for a single unit, so I'm not sure it's that great if a bonus.  The ws/be is nice, for sure, but then your stuck with the mediocre enhancements and meh strategems for 3 units per turn MAYBE getting slightly better.  You're taking a detatchment to get what an ancient brings to other armies.  Like even in comparison just within the faction, there's a detatchment that gets you 3" move across the whole army as long as they are keyworded.  This detatchment has keyword restriction AND then a max unit cap on top of it. That's stinky.

 

I'm not really sure who you're angry at with the middle paragraph; I don't play sisters or Eldar so idk what dunking you're trying to accomplish. I think any mechanic that reduces variability needs to have sharp downsides but GW disagrees, of at least did. They're trying to make them better, at least; changing miracle dice and moving Fate Dice to a single detatchment are steps in the right direction. 

 

I'm not sure why you think it looks good, in my opinion you haven't put a compelling case forwards.  Meager buffs when compared to other options, two of the units you're applying the buffs to are t3 and will get evaporated.  I think most of the "choose three units" type detatchments are non starters and this one isn't much different.  The enhancements are all fine at best, and the strategems are just boring. 

 

That explains a lot tbh.

 

This Detachment isn't reversing the Miracle Dice nerf.

It's not as OP as pre-nerf Bringers of Flame.

It's not buffing literally everything in the army at once.

It's not making every individual Battle Sister model as Strong as Morvenn Vahl.

 

It's not designed to do any of that.

It's an actual normal Detachment, that provides buffs to a Subset of units by spending a resource, like what other Factions have gotten.

 

Sisters have more Options Detachment wise.

You want your insane Miracle Dice generation back? There's a Codex Detachment that is purpose built for that.

 

This is an Elites Detachment that mitigates the randomness of the Miracle Dice roll by making the dice itself the resource.

Again, this is a pretty normal Detachment, all things considered.

 

And from the PoV of someone who's faced Sisters on the Tabletop, this looks like a Detachment that would be genuinely fun to play against instead of the Bringers of Flame Miracle Dice Slot Machine SoB had previously.

[DemonGSides]

5 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

That explains a lot tbh.

 

This Detachment isn't reversing the Miracle Dice nerf.

It's not as OP as pre-nerf Bringers of Flame.

It's not buffing literally everything in the army at once.

It's not making every individual Battle Sister model as Strong as Morvenn Vahl.

 

It's not designed to do any of that.

It's an actual normal Detachment, that provides buffs to a Subset of units by spending a resource, like what other Factions have gotten.

 

Sisters have more Options Detachment wise.

You want your insane Miracle Dice generation back? There's a Codex Detachment that is purpose built for that.

 

This is an Elites Detachment that mitigates the randomness of the Miracle Dice roll by making the dice itself the resource.

Again, this is a pretty normal Detachment, all things considered.

 

And from the PoV of someone who's faced Sisters on the Tabletop, this looks like a Detachment that would be genuinely fun to play against instead of the Bringers of Flame Miracle Dice Slot Machine SoB had previously.

 

Yeah but I think the miracle dice change accomplished your want in the last paragraph.

 

This detatchment is just anemic without good miracle dice. You're going to buff one unit turn 1, then hopefully two turn 2 but only if you lost a unit, which was probably one of your buff targets unless you hide them, then they're out of position to take advantage of the buff.

 

I'm happy with lower power detatchments. This feels like a no power detatchment.  I understand it's not designed to do that; that doesn't mean it's a good design lmao.

 

As someone who's played against sisters on the tabletop, I would feel bad beating someone up who's using this detatchment as they manage to get meagre returns from a relatively boring detatchment rule.

 

If you think detatchment rules shouldn't be in the game, fair play. But that eliminates a lot of power and build choice from the way the game works right now.

 

[DemonGSides]

9 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

This is an Elites Detachment that mitigates the randomness of the Miracle Dice roll by making the dice itself the resource.

Again, this is a pretty normal Detachment, all things considered.

 

Sure, with old miracle dice. With current miracle dice, it's not even rising to the level of 'normal' detatchment. It's gonna see like no utilization outside of people who play it a few times and then walk away thinking "Man Indy techwisp told me that Battle sisters are an elite choice.  I think he might be wrong."

 

If it didn't need a miracle die to buff then we would have at least a discussion on power level. With how it currently works, this detatchment is pretty meh. 

[Indy Techwisp]

17 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

This detatchment is just anemic without good miracle dice. You're going to buff one unit turn 1, then hopefully two turn 2 but only if you lost a unit, which was probably one of your buff targets unless you hide them, then they're out of position to take advantage of the buff.

 

Basic Battle Sisters (which are buffed by this Detachment) have a Wargear that generates a Miracle Dice when they're standing on a Point on a 4+ roll, so by playing the objective you get more dice to use.

That's another way to generate more.

 

Also, you're probably not going to want to Buff much turn 1 anyway, since you're too far away from the enemy most of the time.

 

17 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

As someone who's played against sisters on the tabletop, I would feel bad beating someone up who's using this detatchment as they manage to get meagre returns from a relatively boring detatchment rule.

 

I feel sorry for you if you feel bad whenever you play against anyone using an Average Detachment then, because that's what this Detachment is.

Average.

 

17 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

If you think detatchment rules shouldn't be in the game, fair play. But that eliminates a lot of power and build choice from the way the game works right now.

 

????

Do I look like I'm advocating for the removal of Detachment rules?

One of my armies only really exists in 10th as a single Detachment rule (and one that's abused by Space Wolves and Blood Angels at that).

I'm saying that this is an Average level Detachment.

It's "Normal".

Like basically everyone else who's not running the meta.

And it's a good thing that Sisters aren't as homogenised now, because before the balance dataslate any SoB list was either Bringers of Flame or non-existent.

 

14 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Sure, with old miracle dice. With current miracle dice, it's not even rising to the level of 'normal' detatchment. It's gonna see like no utilization outside of people who play it a few times and then walk away thinking "Man Indy techwisp told me that Battle sisters are an elite choice.  I think he might be wrong."

 

If it didn't need a miracle die to buff then we would have at least a discussion on power level. With how it currently works, this detatchment is pretty meh. 

 

Would you kindly lay off the personal attacks please?

 

You've made it clear you hate this Detachment and aren't going to budge from that viewpoint one inch, so let's leave it at that before the Moderati lock the thread or something.

Edited December 19 by Indy Techwisp