Grotmas Calendar 2024 - New Detachments Edition

[phandaal]

21 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

Votann

 

Problem with Votann is the army rule (the judgment token) is held up by the Oathband detachment. Take that away, and there is not much of an army rule to interact with.

 

Maybe that will change with the LoV Codex and this Grotmas detachment is a sign?

[DemonGSides]

22 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Basic Battle Sisters (which are buffed by this Detachment) have a Wargear that generates a Miracle Dice when they're standing on a Point on a 4+ roll, so by playing the objective you get more dice to use.

That's another way to generate more.

 

Also, you're probably not going to want to Buff much turn 1 anyway, since you're too far away from the enemy most of the time.

 

 

Losing out on rules for turns at a time is usually not a good thing.

 

22 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I feel sorry for you if you feel bad whenever you play against anyone using an Average Detachment then, because that's what this Detachment is.

Average.

 

You think it's average. I think it's weak. Repeating them doesn't make them true, it's looking at how the rules work. I think it's gonna be a weak detatchment. It's new so either one of us can be wrong, sure, but compared to similar options it's weak, for the reasons I laid out. 1" of movement isn't much of a buff. 

 

22 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

????

Do I look like I'm advocating for the removal of Detachment rules?

One of my armies only really exists in 10th as a single Detachment rule (and one that's abused by Space Wolves and Blood Angels at that).

I'm saying that this is an Average level Detachment.

It's "Normal".

Like basically everyone else who's not running the meta.

And it's a good thing that Sisters aren't as homogenised now, because before the balance dataslate any SoB list was either Bringers of Flame or non-existent.

 

No I don't think your advocating for it. But this detatchment rule basically doesn't exist, so calling this what should be average IS pushing for a game without detatchment rules that are impactful. 

 

22 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Would you kindly lay off the personal attacks please?

 

You've made it clear you hate this Detachment and aren't going to budge from that viewpoint one inch, so let's leave it at that before the Moderati lock the thread or something.

 

 

What???  What personal attacks???  You called battle sisters elite troops!  I'm literally just quoting you!

 

Listen this isn't average. It's bad with current miracle dice. It was average with old miracle dice.  You're being just as stubborn, so cut the "I'm taking the high road" crap and just report the post if you think it's that bad. 

Edited Thursday at 04:20 PM by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

6 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

What???  What personal attacks???  You called battle sisters elite troops!  I'm literally just quoting you!

 

I said they get buffed by the Detachment.

Which they do.

It's literally in Bold in the Detachment Rule.

 

As for the Personal attacks bit, I mean this:

39 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

"Man Indy techwisp told me that Battle sisters are an elite choice.  I think he might be wrong."

 

 

Now could we please drop this?

I'd like the thread to not be locked.

Edited Thursday at 04:20 PM by Indy Techwisp

[Borbarad]

19 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Problem with Votann is the army rule (the judgment token) is held up by the Oathband detachment. Take that away, and there is not much of an army rule to interact with.

 

Maybe that will change with the LoV Codex and this Grotmas detachment is a sign?

Could be indeed a sign of things to come. We know for instance that the Eldar army rule will change fundamentally and the detachment is already reflecting that. 
 

Maybe GW wanted to avoid having to completely change the Grotmas detachements once the remaining codices come out. 

[DemonGSides]

57 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

This is an Elites Detachment that mitigates the randomness of the Miracle Dice roll by making the dice itself the resource.

Again, this is a pretty normal Detachment, all things considered.

 

Okay brother techwisp, your right, you never called em elite. You just said this detatchment that buffs three specific units is an Elites detatchment. 

 

Disagreement isnt a personal attack. Calling you names would be a personal attack, which is not what I did; I simply said I thought you were wrong.  If that's a personal attack to you, well, might want to stop interacting on an open forum. Gonna probably find some people who don't agree with you all over the place here. 

Edited Thursday at 04:26 PM by DemonGSides

[HeadlessCross]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

For the record, Sisters Reddit is saying this is Dead on Arrival, a Mockery to them, worse than them not getting a Detachment at all, a  waste of data  etc.

 

Such an angry response to "This Detachment doesn't give a flying frak about what you roll, just yeet the dice."

 

Edit:

To clarify on this.

The Detachment is "Dead on Arrival" because you can't... *checks notes*... "Power up 3 units every turn and still have 6-8 Miracle Dice left over".

Apparently some of them are still salty that they can't spam the dice they want via Eldar. 

[HeadlessCross]

30 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Losing out on rules for turns at a time is usually not a good thing.

 

 

You think it's average. I think it's weak. Repeating them doesn't make them true, it's looking at how the rules work. I think it's gonna be a weak detatchment. It's new so either one of us can be wrong, sure, but compared to similar options it's weak, for the reasons I laid out. 1" of movement isn't much of a buff. 

 

 

No I don't think your advocating for it. But this detatchment rule basically doesn't exist, so calling this what should be average IS pushing for a game without detatchment rules that are impactful. 

 

 

 

What???  What personal attacks???  You called battle sisters elite troops!  I'm literally just quoting you!

 

Listen this isn't average. It's bad with current miracle dice. It was average with old miracle dice.  You're being just as stubborn, so cut the "I'm taking the high road" crap and just report the post if you think it's that bad. 

It isn't bad, it's just not as good as some of the other detachments. When giving it a second read, there's definitely some play though. 

[DemonGSides]

Just now, HeadlessCross said:

It isn't bad, it's just not as good as some of the other detachments. When giving it a second read, there's definitely some play though. 

 

I've been calling it meh since the get go. I can admit I might have been harsh calling it the second worst detatchment for Grotsmas (I completely blacked out the daemon detatchment and Nurgles is probably worse than this one so it might only be the 3rd or 4th), but it certainly doesnt hit any metrics I care about; a detachment should be either strong, fluffy, or fun, and this one doesn't really scream any of those to me. 

[Dark Shepherd]

7 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Apparently some of them are still salty that they can't spam the dice they want via Eldar. 

I think dice manipulation rules have been playing with fire at best, maybe even very unpopular

 

If they do Wolves second last for Grotmas might we get a Christmas eve preview or a teaser along with EC reveal?

[sairence]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah but I think the miracle dice change accomplished your want in the last paragraph.

 

This detatchment is just anemic without good miracle dice. You're going to buff one unit turn 1, then hopefully two turn 2 but only if you lost a unit, which was probably one of your buff targets unless you hide them, then they're out of position to take advantage of the buff.

 

I'm happy with lower power detatchments. This feels like a no power detatchment.  I understand it's not designed to do that; that doesn't mean it's a good design lmao.

 

As someone who's played against sisters on the tabletop, I would feel bad beating someone up who's using this detatchment as they manage to get meagre returns from a relatively boring detatchment rule.

 

If you think detatchment rules shouldn't be in the game, fair play. But that eliminates a lot of power and build choice from the way the game works right now.

 

 

Pretty sure you don't buff anyone turn 1, generally won't be a need for it. Instead you save your dice and buff 2-3 units turn 2, when you start connecting with the enemy, to give you the edge in those fights. Then you can either keep buffing 2 units the following turns, or you save up to slam it on another 3.

 

And if you don't have enough to continuously buff 2 units after turn 2...congrats! Your stuff isn't dieing and you're probably winning the game. :D

[HeadlessCross]

23 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I've been calling it meh since the get go. I can admit I might have been harsh calling it the second worst detatchment for Grotsmas (I completely blacked out the daemon detatchment and Nurgles is probably worse than this one so it might only be the 3rd or 4th), but it certainly doesnt hit any metrics I care about; a detachment should be either strong, fluffy, or fun, and this one doesn't really scream any of those to me. 

To say it's worse than the Thousand Sons one or the Nurgle Daemons one is silly, and it's easily equal to or superior vs the Dark Angels one. 

[DemonGSides]

14 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

To say it's worse than the Thousand Sons one or the Nurgle Daemons one is silly, and it's easily equal to or superior vs the Dark Angels one. 

 

Right, it's a good thing I didn't say those things, and in fact where you quoted I said it's probably above those. Appreciate the follow up though. 

[Alternis]

Ok these been enough tongue in cheek back handed comments about people’s view of the battle sisters detachment 

 

I just want some speculation on what we think the blood angels detachment tomorrow will be! 

[DemonGSides]

1 minute ago, Alternis said:

Ok these been enough tongue in cheek back handed comments about people’s view of the battle sisters detachment 

 

I just want some speculation on what we think the blood angels detachment tomorrow will be! 

 

The holiness blurb has me hoping it's related to first company. They were sold previously as the Archangel Strike Force, suitably holy sounding, and an easy slam dunk name to use for the detatchment too. 

[jaxom]

2 minutes ago, Alternis said:

I just want some speculation on what we think the blood angels detachment tomorrow will be! 

Ironically, I would have said Librarians. As it is, maybe something Apothecary and Sanguinary Priest based to represent a task force dedicated to following up rumors/leads to the Red Thirst.

 

Or maybe something Dreadnought based which will use Enhancements and the like to bring back Librarian-dreads.

[TheMawr]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

Ironically, I would have said Librarians. As it is, maybe something Apothecary and Sanguinary Priest based to represent a task force dedicated to following up rumors/leads to the Red Thirst.

 

Or maybe something Dreadnought based which will use Enhancements and the like to bring back Librarian-dreads.

 

This last one was my first thought.

However 2 days ago I saw my first primaris dreadnought in real life, I expected them to be a bit bigger.. but .. wow that is a whole different category. Using your "existing collection" librarian dreadnought as a primaris one ( wich the rules will probably be based on.) really needs a stretch of the mind, like those people who rebased old avatar of khaine to use as the new one :) the thing dwarfed the tau vehicle it was fighting against.

 

I went and read up to see if "time" could be a hint.. so upon reading, Mephiston can do time shenanigans ?

a Mephiston inner circle detachment wich also comes with time shenanigans, librarian dreadnoughts and librarian terminator love.. supported by dreadnoughts and tactical dreadnoughts Terminators ? My wild card guess XD

[Borbarad]

2 hours ago, jaxom said:

Ironically, I would have said Librarians. As it is, maybe something Apothecary and Sanguinary Priest based to represent a task force dedicated to following up rumors/leads to the Red Thirst.

 

Or maybe something Dreadnought based which will use Enhancements and the like to bring back Librarian-dreads.

Librarians are probably well covered by the SM librarius conclave. 
 

I do agree on the dreadnoughts; I could see a Baal Armory type of detachment akin to what we got for Custodes, including overcharged engines on everything and buffs to dreadnoughts. 
 

Alternativley I could see a scout detachment being a thing, given that BA were decimated pretty badly by tyranids. 

[INKS]

The sisters one is meh. Problem is they have better detachment so it just won’t see much play. But that is how it goes 

 

it isn’t even the worst grotmas one. 

[Mogger351]

Honestly this whole thing is depressing. It's like if an army gets a detachment and it's not a 55% WR+ meta silver bullet it's deemed a useless insult to people's intellect. There is a whole lot of mid ground for people to just play the game for fun, try things out, use stuff because they can. Not everything needs to rock the competitive world to have value.

[Indy Techwisp]

BA Detachment is "Angelic Inheritors".

Looks to be based on the other geneflaws of the Blood Angels.

[redmapa]

That detachment is bonkers good, as long as your units are being led you reroll charges, 1s to hit/wound and/or fall back shoot and charge plus the enhancements seem all useful AND you can turn a unit into a character so now your throwaway DC unit can go deep without wasting a character. These are some amazing rules imo.

[DemonGSides]

Hero focus isn't what I expected but I think it's relatively good. Probably not as good as LAG but thats both expected and a good thing.

 

This one has some interesting enhancements and strats too (and old Armor of Contempt, solidifying that these were not built with the dataslate on hand, explaining some of the weaknesses of other detatchments).  BA is already a very Character centric space marine force so this has something going for it. I like that unlike the Custodes version, some of the character buffs carry over to their squad as well. 

 

Once I get all these death company together, I'm definitely gonna try it. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Quote

Tomorrow brings a Detachment for players who like their big shiny toys. It’s the T’au Empire!

 

Well firstly, there goes any hope that T'au were getting an Intergrated Auxiliaries Detachment or a Soup Detachment with Guard/LoV.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with this to make it not just Retaliation Cadre, but slower.

[Xanthous]

I'm not sure what this detachment is supposed to represent - the name and the reference to Gabriel (Seth, presumably?) in the article title made me think it was a Flesh Tearers/successor chapter detachment, but the rules are character focused.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Xanthous said:

I'm not sure what this detachment is supposed to represent - the name and the reference to Gabriel (Seth, presumably?) in the article title made me think it was a Flesh Tearers/successor chapter detachment, but the rules are character focused.

 

It's Blood Angels prophetic madness themed.