Grotmas Calendar 2024 - New Detachments Edition

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

That doesn't work. 1st Company is technically able to be used in a game too if you take zero Veteran units to use the Strats on too, but you wouldn't call it "sub-optimal". You also wouldn't call it "sub-optimal" if someone was taking Angelic Host and ran zero Jump units.

 

Objectively you aren't doing a deep dive into some of these detachments when you talk like that. 

 

That's not even taking into account unplayable rules of certain detachments, where they don't function like GW thinks they do, or it ends up somehow benefitting the wrong units (case in point how the Grotmas detachment for Dark Angels functions better for Dreads than it does any Deathwing infantry).

 

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Some people are interested in discussing the viability of things.  I wouldn't misconstrue that conversation as saying that things LITERALLY aren't playable, just that playing them set you up for failure.  Surely you've heard of slang, coloquialisms, and the like?  Unplayable is gaming slang and has been for a while. A video game running at 15 fps is technically 'playable', in that you for sure can suffer through that.  But most anyone who's into video gaming would tell you that anything sub 30 is unplayable; not that it physically can't be played, but that by doing so, you're going to have a bad time.

Just my two sense.  There are for sure some "unplayable" things (like certain rules that just don't work the way GW writes them), but overall those get addressed pretty routinely.

 

Yes I know of people using it as hyperbolic slang, but the entire point was that people have the perception that unless it's the best thing since sliced bread it's dead, worthless, unplayable, or to use the example in here removing detachments from the game. Tone down the negative language, it can only have a net positive impact if people don't describe every detachment without IWIN buttons as useless trash that nobody will play.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Tastyfish said:

 

Vindicators would be in direct competition with their Doom Blasters.

World Eaters need to get the vast array of old epic tanks added back in to go alongside the frothing lunatics.

 

"The mortar shells, known as 'gravediggers', are horrific to look upon, and are made from the bones of those killed by the Doom Blaster, which scavenges the battlefield for them once the battle is over, to consume those bones and convert them into fresh ammunition."

 

Seems suitably metal for the Blood God.

Part of this is why I hate the Cult Legions being separated into different codices. They could've given a generic artillery piece and let Death Guard players use Crawlers to represent it and in the meantime World Eaters players do some converting. But no, that's too hard on the players. 

[HeadlessCross]

17 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

 

 

Yes I know of people using it as hyperbolic slang, but the entire point was that people have the perception that unless it's the best thing since sliced bread it's dead, worthless, unplayable, or to use the example in here removing detachments from the game. Tone down the negative language, it can only have a net positive impact if people don't describe every detachment without IWIN buttons as useless trash that nobody will play.

Nah, this "you have to be positive" crap is what leads to more bad rules or bad games. Look to the recent Pokémon games for what that total positivity gets you. 

[Sir Clausel]

28 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Nah, this "you have to be positive" crap is what leads to more bad rules or bad games. Look to the recent Pokémon games for what that total positivity gets you. 

And total negativity ruins the fun for everyone. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Nah, this "you have to be positive" crap is what leads to more bad rules or bad games. Look to the recent Pokémon games for what that total positivity gets you. 

I quite enjoyed scarlet and violet, speaking as someone who was there at gen 1. Is not the best game interactions world design or technical achievement wise, sure, but it entertained me enough.

 

Which is exactly my point here, not all detachments need pure derision start to end. You don't have to praise them, fine, but they're not immediately unplayable rubbish trash that's a dead on arrival auto loss or whatever other hyperbolic terms you want to wang on it.

 

I'll leave it at that though.

[chapter master 454]

Steady with the bolters brothers and sisters, this is a time of joyous celebration and good will and we are all here for a good time.

 

I think the detachments have all been good additions. Are they amazing? oh goodness no but I feel each of them have a specific theme in mind they wanted to play with and they run with it well, even if the rules aren't great. The Imperial Knights one is trash but yet I feel like the theme of it, it is a nice detachment with my only gripe being that the unit access is a bit thin, maybe something instead of points being a restriction they use something similar to Imperial Agents allying: You get up to 2 characters, 2 battleline and 2 other units. Maybe add a rider that if a character from the allying joins a battleline unit, they don't count towards your limit of battleline units you can take. However these characters cannot be your warlord.

Mainly because 500 points is quite restrictive and any balance updates could make this more difficult for these sort of alliances that don't have a 1k budget for allies. This gives more options freely but still restricted. Granted, this is from my point of view upon the detachment with hindsight and no pressure to get something out the door.

 

This blood angel one is odd but I like the idea of these detachments that make you want to bring characters more en mass and attach them, it creates a new challenge in list building where you need to balance how much you want to spend on characters for buffing units and what units do you want to buff. Is it going to be amazing? who knows, but each detachment has offered something new to play with and a new detachment to explore for those of us who like to cook which thus maybe makes me biased towards just enjoying these in general.

Yes, I am not happy that the knight detachment isn't "all knights get 50% points decrease, bondsman is reverted to launch version and you have a 4+++ if you speak like a knight" but I can't argue that the detachment runs with the theme well and is clearly keeping itself light as to not be outright broken which as I may gesture to the past, allies have been a thorny problem for 40k whenever allowed.

7th edition Tau'Dar folks. 8th edition saw rampant souping if my memory isn't failing me with the Loyal 32, Castellans and Smash-Captains (heck, I remember we had to figure out a friendly name for Smash captains, find it funny we just omitted the offending word!)

9th for some reason is fuzzy...I think that edition was more plagued by the sheer weight of layers that even an onion couldn't match.

 

Smile and maybe consider taking a step back. Easy to get lost in the sauce with how much 40k has become more and more competitive as of late, which is good and healthy but I think some people need to lay off the pedals a little and take it easy sometimes. It's a game, and no it isn't a shadow game where you will be sent to the shadow realm if you lose. We are here for fun, laughs and sharing in good times. Most of us play as local clubs and stores. Don't let competition become the only thing that matters because if it does, it loses all meaning.

[DemonGSides]

7 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

 

 

Yes I know of people using it as hyperbolic slang, but the entire point was that people have the perception that unless it's the best thing since sliced bread it's dead, worthless, unplayable, or to use the example in here removing detachments from the game. Tone down the negative language, it can only have a net positive impact if people don't describe every detachment without IWIN buttons as useless trash that nobody will play.

 

The first use of unplayable was the post that set you off, so I'm not really sure what hyper competitive discussion is being had here that you're seeing but I'm not.  Maybe there's a lot of hidden posts that I miss between checking the thread.

 

Most of the posts are just people saying they're interested in trying whatever detatchment, and then Techwisp and I's spat over the SoB detatchment (Which ultimately was just a difference of opinions).  You're the first person to use the word Trash in the thread, according to a quick search using the forum's software.

 

If they can't all be winners, why can't we talk about why we think they aren't?

 

[Hathor42]

Ha that new blood angel detachment makes me want to take the precision rule from the hive fleet detachment lol. 

[INKS]

6 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

The first use of unplayable was the post that set you off, so I'm not really sure what hyper competitive discussion is being had here that you're seeing but I'm not.  Maybe there's a lot of hidden posts that I miss between checking the thread.

 

Most of the posts are just people saying they're interested in trying whatever detatchment, and then Techwisp and I's spat over the SoB detatchment (Which ultimately was just a difference of opinions).  You're the first person to use the word Trash in the thread, according to a quick search using the forum's software.

 

If they can't all be winners, why can't we talk about why we think they aren't?

 

In another post they cited other sources than that of the bolter and chainsword. So when they are talking about players reactions that is not limited to this thread alone 

[Blindhamster]

5 hours ago, Hathor42 said:

Ha that new blood angel detachment makes me want to take the precision rule from the hive fleet detachment lol. 

Good point, my son would love that

[redmapa]

Quote

But if you feel that this whole ‘spirit of giving’ is too wishy-washy, namby-pamby and hippy-dippy, tomorrow brings festive wrath in the form of the Black Templars.

 

Light up the pyres!

Intone the hymns!

War beckons!

[Indy Techwisp]

So it was a T'au "Auxiliary Cadre" after all.

 

Quote

An Auxiliary Cadre presents the ideals of the Greater Good for all to see, with T’au, Kroot and Vespid working together in a harmonious whole. But if you feel that this whole ‘spirit of giving’ is too wishy-washy, namby-pamby and hippy-dippy, tomorrow brings festive wrath in the form of the Black Templars.

Next up tomorrow is Black Templars.

 

So I'm expecting World Eaters after that, followed by Space Wolves to round this out.

[Alternis]

Hmm this Tau detachment. 
 

I don’t like it so much. 

[Wormwoods]

Seems fine, nothing too flashy, but a decent enough excuse to mess around with some Kroot and Vespid.

[INKS]

Tau seems meh. Was hoping for more ghost keel and rip tide action 

[chapter master 454]

Disappointed. I feel the community team did well with their teaser bits but this one just falls flat. It works for theme but...in my lowest energy voice possible...woohoo...there ya go team auxilaries, you got your detachment. It looks fine.

 

For fairness, the enhancement to give 3 kroot units deep strike is kind of neat and extra AP for throwing the meat-shields near stuff is alright but it just now makes tau have 2 joints you can attack and they need to align to make work. Got to guide the unit to be able to hit anything, then got to have a kroot or vespid within 9" to get the extra AP and considering how flimsy aux are, that's the one and done for them.

It has sauce but I ain't interested in cooking with this one much. Have at it aux lovers, my riptides are still being put on the shelf for being crap!

[AutumnEffect]

I like the Tau detachment a lot personally. The strats are pretty amazing and general-use. I like that they give extra bonuses but can still be used for T'au units.

[TopToffee]

40 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So it was a T'au "Auxiliary Cadre" after all.

 

Next up tomorrow is Black Templars.

 

So I'm expecting World Eaters after that, followed by Space Wolves to round this out.

My friend and I play WE and SW respectively.

 

when neither of us had had a detachment in the first week we jokingly said “bet we’ll be the last two”…

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

I like the Tau detachment a lot personally. The strats are pretty amazing and general-use. I like that they give extra bonuses but can still be used for T'au units.

 

It's fluffy for sure and the stratagems are legit awesome. Enhancements I'm lower on; deep strike benefit is kinda meh cuz it takes away the detatchment interaction, but there might be some sick combos with some big walkers and some Kroot/vespids dropping in together.

 

My Tau friends are split on liking auxiliary forces and absolutely despising them, so it'll be fun to hear their thoughts later today. 

[Mogger351]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So it was a T'au "Auxiliary Cadre" after all.

 

Next up tomorrow is Black Templars.

 

So I'm expecting World Eaters after that, followed by Space Wolves to round this out.

GW confirmed on the socials that WE were not last so you're correct there o think.

[Sete]

Tomorrow it is then. 

I hope its not chaplains detachment. (forgive me, but I don't run chaplains).

I Just want flexibility on Primaris Crusader Squads. Let me split them like in the combat patrol. 

[HeadlessCross]

10 hours ago, Alternis said:

Hmm this Tau detachment. 
 

I don’t like it so much. 

Not sure why. It does combined arms AND it has fantastic strats to play the objective game and offensive game. It's easily equal to Retaliation. 

17 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

 

If they can't all be winners, why can't we talk about why we think they aren't?

 

Because you'll scare new players, apparently. 

[phandaal]

11 hours ago, AutumnEffect said:

I like the Tau detachment a lot personally. The strats are pretty amazing and general-use. I like that they give extra bonuses but can still be used for T'au units.

 

Anecdotal - went to the FLGS today and the Kroot part of the Tau section looked like it had been ransacked. Apparently you are not the only one who likes this new detachment! 

[INKS]

Kroot are fairly strong. You just need a lot of them 

[DemonGSides]

Yeah thankfully they printed a metric ton of them it seems; my local place I shop at has had dozens of the army boxes available for kroot since they came out and even broke a bunch apart to just have more bodies to sell.