Krieg Boxset

[TheArtilleryman]

3 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Don't use marine as analog. When you draw an analogy between marine and any other products, your argument would be rendered invalid. 

 

Marines are exceptions. To GW and 40K.

So what you’re saying is you’re invoking the 40K equivalent of Godwin’s Law? It needs a name. Persson’s Law has a nice ring to it I think :)

[Indy Techwisp]

7 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

So what you’re saying is you’re invoking the 40K equivalent of Godwin’s Law? It needs a name. Persson’s Law has a nice ring to it I think :)

Guilliman's Law:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Space Marines grows closer to 1."

[Nephaston]

20 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Don't use marine as analog. When you draw an analogy between marine and any other products, your argument would be rendered invalid. 

 

Marines are exceptions. To GW and 40K.

Especially since marines are THE faction that still has faction keywords and a clear rule that you cannot mix and match.

[lilking]

People are getting salty in here. I for one am excited for my new plastic soldiers

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Good rules and the models don’t really matter.

So a game like checkers is approximately the level of abstraction you think is 'good', or are the different colours of the pieces too diverse? The 'shape of the pieces' matters even in a game as ancient and balanced as chess. Of course, some players might be clever enough to play chess with pieces that all look the same and aren't labeled. Most people wouldn't find that fun, but that doesn't mean the rules of chess are bad.

 

Most people play 40k in part because they find aesthetic value in some degree of fidelity between the pieces (models), the narrative surrounding them, and their abstract abilities or roles in the game. You can claim correctly that you don't value any of these things, or value them differently from how they are published today or tomorrow, but at the point of playing a game with a few hundred individual moving markers chosen from a few hundred potential options, differentiating those markers will matter a great deal if you expect to play even nearly within the rules. 

 

You could play bottlecap and beercan 40k without much issue as long as things were labeled tho... and the differences between Regiment infantry units does not make this possibility any more or less difficulty, so I don't think this is quite the slam dunk you think it is.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The rules and the models are completely separate

 

They were once more separate, certainly... but the kind of game where this is true is much closer to a pen and paper RPG than a tabletop wargame. I enjoy both!

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

good rules it doesn’t matter if I’m using pill bottles and bottle caps to represent units.

 

40k is not pretending to be 'the best rules' full stop. No such thing can exist, except as a matter of individual preference.

 

You keep saying 'good rules' like it has some clear meaning in this context that holds true for every person. It should not be a surprise that a game designed around a set of miniatures is perhaps best played using those miniatures. I know there are any number of alternative systems that are ostensibly miniature agnostic, and maybe you will find it best to play those games with random scavenged markers, or old 40k minis, or cool 3d prints. You are the best expert on your own rules preferences! But I don't think 'easy ability to use any and all physical markers to play this game' is a fair yardstick of ultimate value for 'good rules' in this context.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Edited 16 hours ago by Dr. Clock

[Wispy]

6 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Good rules and the models don’t really matter.

lol. they could be the best rules in the world, i'm still never going to play it.

 

make no mistake, the rules is actually the least important thing about this hobby. the number of people who make it to the table against an opponent are a niche of the niche.

 

and I say this as someone who can throw down a beautiful painted 2000 point army in either 40k or AoS at any time... i just don't play.

Edited 11 hours ago by Wispy

[Gillyfish]

So one of the questions posed in this thread is whether it is possible in a game for similar (or identical) looking units to have different rules and for this to work. There are games that do this. One of the other games that I play is Hail Caesar. To use an example from their Epic range there you would use identical miniatures to depict roman legionaries and identically armed and equipped, but not trained, Italian allies. There are differences in the special rules that the Italians have to the Romans and the main way you would have to depict the difference would be paint scheme. The same applies to Carthaginian units; you can apply different special rules to the same type of unit. 

 

Now, the game does work; typically you would talk your opponent through what each unit has and what it does before playing and which division it sits in within your army. However, it is worth noting that Hail Caesar is a game which relies very much on players working together to have a good time and a degree of maturity and discussion about what might happen. 40K does have that within its player base and it is one of the ways you can play. However, it also has pick up games and tournament play which are slightly different environments where I can see the issues raised in this thread potentially being more contentious.

 

A lot depends on context and your opponent; all of my 40k minis date back to a time before the bases were enlarged. I am not going to rebase them (I have other hobby priorities, plus I don't wish to damage them). I would hope that most players would be happy to give me a game, even though they are technically all illegally based (I mean, I think they are nearly all legends too, but that's a separate issue! ). I would hope that there would be an understanding that I was not doing this for advantage and that we could discuss anything where it might result in advantage and resolve it amicably.

[Bev'an]

Excellent ,my little stash of cheap kreig from the release of KT2.0 has paid off. 

liking the box look forward to the rest dropping. Big artillery barrages and riders

[01RTB01]

Based on today's article the box contains 310 points. Ouch for the price to points. The engineers are cheaper than grots!

[DemonGSides]

12 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Based on today's article the box contains 310 points. Ouch for the price to points. The engineers are cheaper than grots!

 

Yeah I can't see a world where that remains that way. They're gonna get pushed to 50 at least if not more; being able to both grenade AND use their land mine means that some vehicles just don't stand a chance.

 

And two of the squads in a chimera scouting up means they're laying in wait for whatever big thing comes forward.  They're a lil nasty.

 

The artillery gun is about what I expected. Kinda wish it has d6+1 or more on the siege cannon; gonna feel real bad rolling a 1 on shots. 

[Emperor Ming]

The guns are just as bad as i thought, d6 shots for the cannon hitting on what 5s witout orders....

 

edit: they are bs5+ lol

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Emperor Ming

[01RTB01]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

The guns are just as bad as i thought, d6 shots for the cannon hitting on what 5s witout orders....

 

edit: they are bs5+ lol

 

 

But heavy so usually hitting on 4s. 

[INKS]

Guard have always been poor value for cash. Lots of models for very few points. Meaning you need a ton of them.

It's worse now for sure, as it is for all armies and army boxes. But yeah... it's always been pretty bad for guard. Ad Mech might still be worse? But maybe not.

[DemonGSides]

Rogal Dorn TC got leaked;

 

There's a blurry LRTC as well out there that also gets two orders now. We are now less reliant on Lord Solar and that is awesome. 

[DemonGSides]

32 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

The guns are just as bad as i thought, d6 shots for the cannon hitting on what 5s witout orders....

 

edit: they are bs5+ lol

 

 

 

What did you expect?  They're guard artillery. They're all BS5+. The only ones that aren't are vehicle artillery. 

 

The units these artillery are replacing from FW are all also BS5+. You new to guard?

[INKS]

The Dorn commander is very cool. I do love that tank

[Handsome Fred]

There is also the point page leaked.

Tldr same point as before the dec dataslate.

 

Dorn Commander +15points than the standard dorn

Edited 1 hour ago by Handsome Fred

[DemonGSides]

The points are literally useless, they are always different on actual release. It's good for knowing what units survived the transition tho. I posted a copy of it in the IG forum. 

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

But heavy so usually hitting on 4s. 

Indirect would put you back to fives thou

[Focslain]

17 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Indirect would put you back to fives thou

Which is why you order it or have a scout sentinel spot for you (if they still have that rule), no use getting above a 4+ anyway due to how indirect works.