Krieg Boxset

[Tokugawa]

16 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

The weirdest unit for me is the Krieg command squad. It comes with a commissar in the box and so GW have included him in the unit rather than make him his own selection. This means that for rules purposes he is the only officer in the unit and the guy with the peaked hat and breastplate is “just some guy”. Otherwise the Commissar functions more or less like a normal officer and not like a Commissar. He doesn’t shoot people, can issue any of the orders and so on. 

Would the FW Krieg marshall retire? If not, then bits of this "some guy" would be useful.

[Mandragola]

8 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Would the FW Krieg marshall retire? If not, then bits of this "some guy" would be useful.

Well you do use the bits in the squad, he just doesn’t have any rules other than as another veteran, meaning it’s a 6-model unit. The Krieg marshal isn’t in the book - if he was then this guy would represent him perfectly. 

[soviet1337]

With the models I don't mind the prices to a certain extent because the quality is so high. The paints also are pretty good, I know some people may disagree but they work for me. 
 

The games and books however are both expensive and poor quality. Yes they look pretty but they're full of mistakes, unbalanced, invalidate people's existing armies, and only have a shelf life of a couple of years anyway. They feel

exploitative and predatory. 

[INKS]

We live in a digital age now, GW is getting better at embracing that and I love the books for lore and so on. But they have become increasingly bad at Day 1 FAQs and point changes to armies when the books have been in print or at the printer for some time. That is ok in the sense that things change over time. But, DAY 1? I mean... the day it comes out, the day you buy the book it's already wrong and that feels kinda poopy. Not going to lie. There has to be a better solution going forward. I don't know what that is for them as a company but Day 1 FAQs shouldn't need to be a thing when you are selling a printed book, and not a cheap one.

[Joe]

I'm surprised the box remained in stock online for as long as it did - although I imagine many people may not have been too keen on the cavalry spam.

 

I suspect we'll see a Krieg-themed battleforce this Christmas though.

[Emperor Ming]

2 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

How does the new manticore profile looks like?

horrific nerfed to s7

[phandaal]

6 hours ago, CommissarXin said:

To be fair..I've yet to find a 'cheap' hobby. ;) 

Warhammer hits a lot of spots for me...I love model building and the painting is the closest I get to being artistic. 

 

Wargaming in general is cheap. Most companies who make hard plastic models will sell you a box with dozens of minis for $20-30 a pop, or the models will cost pennies if they come from the thing that goes brr. Paints, basing materials, bases themselves, all of that is very cheap as well.

 

Warhammer is on the far upper end of wargaming cost though, by a significant order of magnitude. Not just the minis, but comparable things like technical ground cover (just look at Astrogranite compared to dark asphalt earth texture, for example). Heck, even plastic bases from GW will run you 5-10x the cost.

 

That said - it works. Every year they raise the price, and every year is GW's best year ever. People complain about prices, sure, but they complain even louder when the boxes sell out before they can get one. So if it works, why change it?

[MechaMan]

Has anyone seen a photo of the new transfer sheet from the army box, want to check if the 158th siege regiment are still going strong (despite being disbanded during the siege of vraks for shooting their commissars and fleeing the field) 

[crimsondave]

8 hours ago, CommissarXin said:

To be fair..I've yet to find a 'cheap' hobby. ;) 

Warhammer hits a lot of spots for me...I love model building and the painting is the closest I get to being artistic. 

 

On the topic of the box set...The models look great which is always a plus. Even with all the controversy (Points,codex,faq) I can't wait to just build and painting. I've seen that most of the 1st day faq is apparently in the wild at this point. 

 If I wasn’t painting minis, I’d be going to football games, hunting, fishing, shooting or some combination.  All of those by themselves cost me more money than buying and painting minis by a wide margin.  I gave up on the game itself but I like the new models enough to more than make up for it.

 

When I was trying to collect High Elves as a kid jn the mid 90’s I think I remember they were $5.50 for a blister pack of two pewter Phoenix Guard or whatever they were called.  Just saying, it’s always been expensive for what it was.

[Gnasher]

Looks like it's sold well, so we will be seeing some new Kreig armies soon. I'm not feeling the horseys so I'll wait before pushing any buttons (Still got a ton of guard to do already!). I do really like the infantry & arty though.

 

I'd really like to see some regiment specific vehicle upgrade sprues. Imagine heavy reactive armour for Kreig, jungle recon for Catachans, & pretty much the current sprue for Cadians.

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, crimsondave said:

 If I wasn’t painting minis, I’d be going to football games, hunting, fishing, shooting or some combination.  All of those by themselves cost me more money than buying and painting minis by a wide margin.  I gave up on the game itself but I like the new models enough to more than make up for it.

 

When I was trying to collect High Elves as a kid jn the mid 90’s I think I remember they were $5.50 for a blister pack of two pewter Phoenix Guard or whatever they were called.  Just saying, it’s always been expensive for what it was.

 

Definitely remember the cost being high as a kid. A box of 5 metal terminators in 1998 was about £25 and we all thought that was really expensive. I remember the outcry when they changed from lead to white metal and all the prices on everything went up by something like 25%.

 

These days though I actually feel like although the models are expensive when bought direct, the wide range of places you can buy them from e.g. FLGS, eBay etc means there are comparatively much cheaper ways to hobby than there used to be when GW was the only place to go. And depending on how much you buy, of course, it’s a lot cheaper than, say, smoking, drinking, clubbing etc. and I don’t do any of that.

[Matcap86]

4 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Wargaming in general is cheap. Most companies who make hard plastic models will sell you a box with dozens of minis for $20-30 a pop, or the models will cost pennies if they come from the thing that goes brr. Paints, basing materials, bases themselves, all of that is very cheap as well.

 

Warhammer is on the far upper end of wargaming cost though, by a significant order of magnitude. Not just the minis, but comparable things like technical ground cover (just look at Astrogranite compared to dark asphalt earth texture, for example). Heck, even plastic bases from GW will run you 5-10x the cost.

 

That said - it works. Every year they raise the price, and every year is GW's best year ever. People complain about prices, sure, but they complain even louder when the boxes sell out before they can get one. So if it works, why change it?

 

I mean that goes for every hobby, there's cheaper products and more expensive ones. Though GW is not that far out there. 

 

Just got into Trench crusade, that's 27 euros for just the files to 3d print them and another 25-30 to get them printed. For just the basic warband with nothing extra, i.e. the tutorial set up. 5-7 models. 

 

Star Wars legion: 40 euros per monopose unit of 7 to 10 models that's only just now converting to hard plastic

 

Infinity: 30-40 euros per unit. Mostly 3-5 models. Or 50 to 60 per 6-7 models.

 

Warmachine, around 80-120 euro per 8-15 models.

 

Most big names have gotten more expensive but GW is the big dog so catches the most flak. 

 

 

 

 

[Norman Paperman]

4 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Wargaming in general is cheap. Most companies who make hard plastic models will sell you a box with dozens of minis for $20-30 a pop, or the models will cost pennies if they come from the thing that goes brr. Paints, basing materials, bases themselves, all of that is very cheap as well.

 

Warhammer is on the far upper end of wargaming cost though, by a significant order of magnitude. Not just the minis, but comparable things like technical ground cover (just look at Astrogranite compared to dark asphalt earth texture, for example). Heck, even plastic bases from GW will run you 5-10x the cost.

 

That said - it works. Every year they raise the price, and every year is GW's best year ever. People complain about prices, sure, but they complain even louder when the boxes sell out before they can get one. So if it works, why change it?

IIRC, GW is very clear that they see themselves as retailers of premier miniatures. Just like with fancy cars or the handbags my sister used to care about, there are some things that they do better than other companies (I haven't seen many other mini games, but the quality of Warhammer models always impresses me), but you can use higher prices to push a sense of quality/luxury that customers generally like. Companies need a niche to be successful, and if your niche includes being a "premium" option, it's better to price yourself accordingly rather than push prices down to try and compete in a more traditional sense. 

 

As consumers, I think that works out pretty well for us. We can 3d print, proxy, and find all sorts of ways to save money if we want, but a lot of us also have a bit of disposable income and want to spend it on something (we perceive as) valuable. We all wish it was cheaper because then we could buy more, but truthfully if it was a lot cheaper even while maintaining quality, plenty of people would buy something else that was more expensive. Warhammer has the gravitas of a long-established universe and a passionate community already in place that other games and models don't have, and that also helps them position and price themselves as a premium option.

 

 

 

As for the box at hand, I've decided to hold off for a while after my initial enthusiasm. Not surprised they've sold out so quickly, the models are amazing, but my LGS still has ~20 or so available for pre-order. $238 Canadian is just too much when I don't want to paint 10 horses and don't need the codex, especially when it's possible that Death Guard and Thousand Sons aren't too far away. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

15 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

and also not comparing 2016 prices to 2024, in which literally nothing is the same price as it was back then and everything has gotten more expensive for a couple of reasons.

 

My original post you quoted was addressing the concept of how collecting imperial guard has always revolved around feeling scammed in the infantry; a historic trend in collecting the army. So addressing past history in collecting the models is relevant lol, especially on a forum where a lot of people have been collecting and playing since before 8th.

 

Like, I talked about box value in 3rd and 4th and how it filled up your army way faster for way less money. The end point was to speculate how a previous luxury investment (krieg during the vraks era) may be the standard entry level expectation now.

 

The world's gotten more expensive, sure. But the main reason is for corporations to post consistent growth in the face of every new economic development. It's normal business practices, which are anti consumer in outcome almost always. Literal fodder models like hormagaunts have maintained their price accounting for inflation....but have been halved in amount of product being provided. 

 

TLDR: (because I know you didn't read it the first time, possibly the second time either) people are allowed to complain about the buy in cost, because they're getting 50% models for the same price (adjusted for inflation), that cost 60% of the points, while the game size is 33% higher. The value has never been this bad for mainline 40k and is in fact equivalent to the old prices (adjusted for inflation) of forge world armies.

[Timberley]

Well, I decided to get the box in the end, as I saw the various previews and the Codex (whilst being a bit of mess) looks beautiful and is too good of an opportunity to miss (I'm a sucker for a well-presented book).  I'll see if I can find a use for the models (other than the Engineers and possibly the Arty Teams that I'll definitely be keeping), if not I'll put them up for sale somewhere.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

My original post you quoted was addressing the concept of how collecting imperial guard has always revolved around feeling scammed in the infantry; a historic trend in collecting the army. So addressing past history in collecting the models is relevant lol, especially on a forum where a lot of people have been collecting and playing since before 8th.

 

Actually, the original post was talking about the current cost of things.  Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to go back in time to purchase things.

The conversation was that current krieg in plastic are about as expensive as old forgeworld resin.  Not quite was all I was saying.

 

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Like, I talked about box value in 3rd and 4th and how it filled up your army way faster for way less money. The end point was to speculate how a previous luxury investment (krieg during the vraks era) may be the standard entry level expectation now.

 

And I was saying it wasn't.  I'm not sure why you're getting defensive.

 

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

The world's gotten more expensive, sure. But the main reason is for corporations to post consistent growth in the face of every new economic development. It's normal business practices, which are anti consumer in outcome almost always. Literal fodder models like hormagaunts have maintained their price accounting for inflation....but have been halved in amount of product being provided. 

 

I'm not arguing against this; I'm literally saying the same thing; :cuss:'s more expensive for not that many good reasons beyond greed.  I'm not sure who you are arguing with.

 

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

TLDR: (because I know you didn't read it the first time, possibly the second time either) people are allowed to complain about the buy in cost, because they're getting 50% models for the same price (adjusted for inflation), that cost 60% of the points, while the game size is 33% higher. The value has never been this bad for mainline 40k and is in fact equivalent to the old prices (adjusted for inflation) of forge world armies.

 

No one's arguing this.  What I will argue is the hostility; no one's coming at anyone on this side, I'm mostly in agreement!

 

Like not for nothing, I think I've been very vocal around here about how expensive stuff is.  I'm not sure why you're getting snappy with me when all I said was "Not quite but it's on it's way there!"

Edited Monday at 12:55 AM by DemonGSides

[Tastyfish]

11 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

horrific nerfed to s7

 I don't know there, I think it's just changed into another unit. True it's gone from 175pts with Heavy D6+1 S10 AP-2 D3 to a much reduced No-heavy D6 S7 (anti-Inf 2+) AP-2 D3 statline, rumoured to be

 

However the special rule has changed from reroll to hit against units of 5 or more, to remove 1 point of OC from enemy units hit. In a siege regiment where you can shoot your own units, I could see a role in turning a tied 'Battleline vs Battleline' brawl with something like Guants/Boyz vs Guardsmen over an objective into an easy win with for the IG squad but making the other guys OC1 whilst yours remain OC2+.

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

The conversation was that current krieg in plastic are about as expensive as old forgeworld resin.  Not quite was all I was saying.

 

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

And I was saying it wasn't.

 

And I guess I'm saying that I find it mildly insane to quote someone talking about army costs across eras and go "comparing prices from 2016 isn't relevant because everything has gone up". It made me think you missed the core point of my post. 

 

Quote

Actually, the original post was talking about the current cost of things. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to go back in time to purchase things.

 

Looks like it

 

[ThePenitentOne]

Hope it's not too long til we get the Command Squad and Weapons teams. 

 

I like the contents of the box, and will probably end up owning all of the models in it... They just aren't priorities for the collection I want to build.

 

I want the core to be 3 Krieg KT's. Two of those are accompanied by a unit of Ogryns and a Heavy Weapon team; the third gets a unit of Ratlings, a unit of Grenadiers and a Command Squad, and probably a Chimera. The Army will also eventually have access to a pair of Valkyries, a pair of Manticores and a Deathstrike.

 

Then I'll worry about adding cavalry.

[HeadlessCross]

16 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Wargaming in general is cheap.

I think what you mean to say is wargaming can be made to be as cheap as you need. 

 

I know I'll never patronize an official GW tournament, so I can get as many 3rd party bitz as I want. 

[Petitioner's City]

20 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I don’t currently play 40K as I share a lot of the frustrations of people in this thread. I’ve bought stuff in the past only to have it nerfed before I could get it to a table. I’ve got two young kids and there’s no way I can keep up with the churn nowadays.

 

I volunteered to paint up some DKoK for goonhammer because I thought maybe I could use them and some solar auxilia tanks I’ve got to make an army, but honestly that doesn’t look likely right now.

 

However that does mean I’ve got the codex. Here’s how special weapons work:

 

Cadians get 2/10 and can pick which weapons they want from flamer, grenade, melta and plasma. But you can only have 1 of each weapon per 10 (according to some tiny and easy-to-miss text with an asterisk), so no units with 4 plasma guns etc. They can also have a vox and limited sergeant upgrades. 
 

DKoK are a bit more complicated, weirdly. They also get 2/10 special weapons, including sniper rifles. For some reason they’re split into two categories, with a load of asterisks about the combinations allowed, which is very confusing. They put meltas and plasma guns with the vox caster, meaning you aren’t allowed two meltas, two plasma and a vox - but you could have 2 plasmas, 1 melta, a vox and one of the other special weapons (flamer, sniper or grenade). I’ve no idea why this is. Their sergeants can have plasma pistols and power swords, so they always will I guess. The codex is missing the option to give them a bolter but the day 1 FAQ adds that back. You also get 1 medi-pack per 10. 
 

Catachans get their 2 flamers per 10 and a box-caster. Nothing for the sergeant. 
 

The limitation on weapons applies to other stuff. Kasrkin can only have 2 of each special weapon, though they can have 4 in total, for example. Aquilons only get 1 plasma or melta, which is irritating as for kill team I didn’t incredibly simple conversion to make sure I had both - like everyone did - and now my squad isn’t legal. 
 

The weirdest unit for me is the Krieg command squad. It comes with a commissar in the box and so GW have included him in the unit rather than make him his own selection. This means that for rules purposes he is the only officer in the unit and the guy with the peaked hat and breastplate is “just some guy”. Otherwise the Commissar functions more or less like a normal officer and not like a Commissar. He doesn’t shoot people, can issue any of the orders and so on. 

 

Gosh this is really awful - such a poor version of the guard :( 

[TheArtilleryman]

Nothing for the Catachan sergeant is particularly bad. I would like to have seen two flamers and a heavy flamer in there, plus sergeant options with extra melee weapons like the power fist. There’s no real reason to take them over the others unless they are significantly cheaper.

[Mandragola]

Catachans get scout, so you use them to get up the board and/or to screen, which they’re pretty good at. +1 to wound on the charge is kind of ok but not amazing with just one attack each. 

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Nothing for the Catachan sergeant is particularly bad. I would like to have seen two flamers and a heavy flamer in there, plus sergeant options with extra melee weapons like the power fist. There’s no real reason to take them over the others unless they are significantly cheaper.

Since catachans haven't received their modern kits yet, anything about collecting and modeling them would be "bad". When their KT box arrived things would be better.

[Robbienw]

The current GW obsession with only letting units have the exact options that come in their kits hits older kits like Catachans very badly.