Krieg Boxset

[Emperor Ming]

3 hours ago, Robbienw said:

The current GW obsession with only letting units have the exact options that come in their kits hits older kits like Catachans very badly.

Which is really annoying when its not consistent across all games

 

Converting for old world and necromana is encouraged

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Robbienw said:

The current GW obsession with only letting units have the exact options that come in their kits hits older kits like Catachans very badly.

 

GW corporate is terrified to miss even the smallest portion of the pie.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Which is really annoying when its not consistent across all games

 

Converting for old world and necromana is encouraged

I mean they still encourage converting for 40K, just use their parts.

[Indy Techwisp]

From everything going on with this Codex, I get the impression that they sent off a playtest version to the printer without realising it and the Article was written by the WarCom team who weren't informed of the Playtest rules being sent by mistake.

[Dr. Clock]

The only reason to take Catachans is Scouts 6". I honestly want to keep those squads as cheap as possible, and we all know that a single 4+ plasma and melta per 10 is really not much in the end. If the squad is 5-10 points cheaper because it has fewer options, I'm actually fine with it.

 

The question of box locking comes up ALOT on B&C, and we are wise to remember that we're in the middle of transition from one overarching model (rules exist with no models) to another (no rules for things not possible from single kits). It's definitely weird how Kill Team units kinda just explode all of that though, huh? I don't think Catachans are anyone's idea of a good contemporary kit, but I don't think that Krieg squads should be the standard of complexity either... It's definitely more hassle than it oughtta be to use Kasrkin and the like when ~6/10 guys have unique armaments to track... And doubling up on plasma or melta or, yes, flamers used to just be a nice way to streamline play because you only had to roll like 2 sets of dice for a unit of 10... There used to be more incentive to use one special over another, but having them closer to parity in terms of effect has tamped that down as well in a good way if I'm honest. I guess I just kinda hate spam more than I love winning lol.

 

Also though: Catachans aren't called 'Recon Flamer Squads' for the same reason it's Astra Militarum not Imperial Guard... If you have Catachan specials other than flamers (I do), at least they are finally saying 'use whatever minis you want for the different Regiment squads!' so I can use the minis I have and see pretty easily 'if the unit is a blob and has plasma/melta and med-kits it's a 'Grim Demeanour' squad for rules purposes, not a 'Recon squad'.

 

Obviously the game would be better in some ways if choices and restrictions were opened up a bit and the game was allowed to stand more 'separate' from the minis. But that would also place alot more onus on players not to abuse loopholes or imbalances that always crop up when doing Regimental Build-a-Bear. I'm generally satisfied these days with the idea that massive converting and kitbashing can't always be condoned or encouraged in the game by the company with the most imitators and after-market accessorizers. And that's no shade on those third-party imitators and independents! I love the Victoria and Wargames Atlantic stuff, and all the shoulder-pad makers or whatever, but I'm honestly glad that I'm modeling for appearance more than utility now. It always kinda sucked to feel like the competitive choices weren't accessible from one or even 2 kits sometimes, and now that there's no blister packs other than characters it makes abundant sense to say 'the things in this box are all you need to field this unit in the game'. I understand that it now feels like it sometimes sucks from the opposite direction now, but we can't have our cake and eat it.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

51 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

The only reason to take Catachans is Scouts 6". I honestly want to keep those squads as cheap as possible, and we all know that a single 4+ plasma and melta per 10 is really not much in the end. If the squad is 5-10 points cheaper because it has fewer options, I'm actually fine with it.

 

The question of box locking comes up ALOT on B&C, and we are wise to remember that we're in the middle of transition from one overarching model (rules exist with no models) to another (no rules for things not possible from single kits). It's definitely weird how Kill Team units kinda just explode all of that though, huh? I don't think Catachans are anyone's idea of a good contemporary kit, but I don't think that Krieg squads should be the standard of complexity either... It's definitely more hassle than it oughtta be to use Kasrkin and the like when ~6/10 guys have unique armaments to track... And doubling up on plasma or melta or, yes, flamers used to just be a nice way to streamline play because you only had to roll like 2 sets of dice for a unit of 10... There used to be more incentive to use one special over another, but having them closer to parity in terms of effect has tamped that down as well in a good way if I'm honest. I guess I just kinda hate spam more than I love winning lol.

 

Also though: Catachans aren't called 'Recon Flamer Squads' for the same reason it's Astra Militarum not Imperial Guard... If you have Catachan specials other than flamers (I do), at least they are finally saying 'use whatever minis you want for the different Regiment squads!' so I can use the minis I have and see pretty easily 'if the unit is a blob and has plasma/melta and med-kits it's a 'Grim Demeanour' squad for rules purposes, not a 'Recon squad'.

 

Obviously the game would be better in some ways if choices and restrictions were opened up a bit and the game was allowed to stand more 'separate' from the minis. But that would also place alot more onus on players not to abuse loopholes or imbalances that always crop up when doing Regimental Build-a-Bear. I'm generally satisfied these days with the idea that massive converting and kitbashing can't always be condoned or encouraged in the game by the company with the most imitators and after-market accessorizers. And that's no shade on those third-party imitators and independents! I love the Victoria and Wargames Atlantic stuff, and all the shoulder-pad makers or whatever, but I'm honestly glad that I'm modeling for appearance more than utility now. It always kinda sucked to feel like the competitive choices weren't accessible from one or even 2 kits sometimes, and now that there's no blister packs other than characters it makes abundant sense to say 'the things in this box are all you need to field this unit in the game'. I understand that it now feels like it sometimes sucks from the opposite direction now, but we can't have our cake and eat it.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Loop holes are abused regardless. No, rolling 5 different weapons for a squad is bad rules writing. What loop hole was being abused when my Skitarii Rangers took 3 TransArqs?

[MechaMan]

Will the physical Games Workshop/Warhammer stores have additional copies of this on the day?
 

I placed an order for one from a small shop, but they’re saying they still have stock even now, which I find a little dubious. Slightly worried that I’ll get an email saying they sold it to me in error and they don’t have the stock to cover the pre-orders.  

[Emperor Ming]

9 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

Will the physical Games Workshop/Warhammer stores have additional copies of this on the day?

Will it even be a sell out?

 

The bigger part of the box is the deathriders, and the datasheet is terrible

[Dark Legionnare]

35 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Will it even be a sell out?

 

The bigger part of the box is the deathriders, and the datasheet is terrible

Ah, well, you see! When you take them with a named character EVERY GAME. They're not "as terrible!"

A small complaint of mine with 10th, a grumble even, is the absolute prevalence of named characters showing up in "every skirmish battle ever". But I suppose my "customizability & fluffy-first" preference is outmoded for the recent editions! 

But yeah. I was a bit uplifted to be able to put the riders back on a table again. (After 9th edition nonsense where they were crackshots with their pistols but couldn't hit a barn with their lances) then saw these rules. "I am not risking putting these beautiful, but insanely fragile, resin boys on the table as fodder with no to low impact." as much as I really, really want to.

Edited Monday at 05:42 PM by Dark Legionnare

[Mogger351]

56 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Will it even be a sell out?

 

The bigger part of the box is the deathriders, and the datasheet is terrible

Better than the usual "omg GW made the new thing OP" that some people love trotting out I guess?

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Will it even be a sell out?

 

The bigger part of the box is the deathriders, and the datasheet is terrible

 

Sold out locally before 2 A.M. so I expect it won't stick around long.

 

Buying it without any LGS loyalty bonus has gotta be tough though. 

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

No, rolling 5 different weapons for a squad is bad rules writing.

I think my post said as much? "It's definitely more hassle than it oughtta be to use Kasrkin and the like when ~6/10 guys have unique armaments to track... And doubling up on plasma or melta or, yes, flamers used to just be a nice way to streamline play because you only had to roll like 2 sets of dice for a unit of 10..."

 

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

What loop hole was being abused when my Skitarii Rangers took 3 TransArqs?

None! The issues I'm calling attention to in that paragraph were more at the 'army-wide options' level where we got things like 'bespoke Regiment building' rules with like a 'pick 2 benefits and 1 drawback' chart that still always seemed to result in everyone's armies picking the same combos because a few of them were basically always better than the others. Maybe loophole was the wrong word to use in that context though... thanks for keeping me in check.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

 

[Mandragola]

I think I probably find it less annoying to have this system, where your units can only take what’s in the box, than the old one where you could take what you wanted. 
 

GW is incapable of writing equally powerful weapons and abilities, or assigning correct points to them in games like heresy where they still do. That means some options are always better or worse than others. You never take a flamer when you can have a plasma gun, and so on. 
 

In the past I’ve “had to” buy extra kits and/or convert stuff to make the units I wanted. I remember trying to get four cyclic ion blasters for a Tau commander, for example. Very annoying and expensive. Now they can only have one CIB and I needn’t have bothered. There’s still going to be a best option, but it’ll be a combination of of the things in the box, not extra stuff for me to buy. 
 

There are some big problems with today’s system though. It has coincided with a reduction in the options kits give you, in some cases. The results also don’t always match the fluff. 
 

So for example there’s no real reason DKoK sergeants should all have plasma pistols and power swords, while Catachan ones get nothing. It’s just because of what’s on a sprue - which was originally designed for Kill team and therefore has extra options. 
 

Some things in the guard codex, like the  Krieg command squad, take this to an absurd place. The box has a commissar in, so he’s a member of the squad.
 

I can’t explain why they didn’t just put a sticker on the box to say it had a command squad and a commissar. That would have been fine, especially as they talk a lot about there being loads of Krieg commissars. 
 

Similarly they could have given us a generic Colonel instead of the Cadian Castellan. Then people could have made their own army leaders if they wanted, or used the official figure if they liked as well. 

Edited Monday at 08:57 PM by Mandragola

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I think I probably find it less annoying to have this system, where your units can only take what’s in the box, than the old one where you could take what you wanted. 
 

GW is incapable of writing equally powerful weapons and abilities, or assigning correct points to them in games like heresy where they still do. That means some options are always better or worse than others. You never take a flamer when you can have a plasma gun, and so on. 
 

In the past I’ve “had to” buy extra kits and/or convert stuff to make the units I wanted. I remember trying to get four cyclic ion blasters for a Tau commander, for example. Very annoying and expensive. Now they can only have one CIB and I needn’t have bothered. There’s still going to be a best option, but it’ll be a combination of of the things in the box, not extra stuff for me to buy. 
 

There are some big problems with today’s system though. It has coincided with a reduction in the options kits give you, in some cases. The results also don’t always match the fluff. 
 

So for example there’s no real reason DKoK sergeants should all have plasma pistols and power swords, while Catachan ones get nothing. It’s just because of what’s on a sprue - which was originally designed for Kill team and therefore has extra options. 
 

Some things in the guard codex, like the  Krieg command squad, take this to an absurd place. The box has a commissar in, so he’s a member of the squad.
 

I can’t explain why they didn’t just put a sticker on the box to say it had a command squad and a commissar. That would have been fine, especially as they talk a lot about there being loads of Krieg commissars. 
 

Similarly they could have given us a generic Colonel instead of the Cadian Castellan. Then people could have made their own army leaders if they wanted, or used the official figure if they liked as well. 

What a terrible defense of "build only the box". You didn't HAVE to build the best combination, you chose to. You also chose to go through direct official GW kits instead of 3rd party bitz or even eBay. 

[MechaMan]

What’s going on with the kill team: death korps kit, seems to be out of stock at every flgs. Do you think we’ll have to wait for the kits to release separately? 

[Emperor Ming]

15 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

What’s going on with the kill team: death korps kit, seems to be out of stock at every flgs. Do you think we’ll have to wait for the kits to release separately? 

gw said a while a go, various kill team kits would eventually be transferred over and reboxed for 40k

 

I guess its that time

Edited yesterday at 12:18 AM by Emperor Ming

[INKS]

Yeah the Kill Team Vet guard or the Death Korps team has less than a year left at this point. And it's been hard to get for a while. my guess is they will rebox is and raise the price. this seems to be the new way of doing things

[MechaMan]

But weren’t they reboxed and released this December? Or am I going crazy? 

[ZeroWolf]

10 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

But weren’t they reboxed and released this December? Or am I going crazy? 

They did, there's some available on 3rd party websites at a glance like Element.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I think I probably find it less annoying to have this system, where your units can only take what’s in the box, than the old one where you could take what you wanted. 
 

GW is incapable of writing equally powerful weapons and abilities, or assigning correct points to them in games like heresy where they still do. That means some options are always better or worse than others. You never take a flamer when you can have a plasma gun, and so on. 
 

In the past I’ve “had to” buy extra kits and/or convert stuff to make the units I wanted. I remember trying to get four cyclic ion blasters for a Tau commander, for example. Very annoying and expensive. Now they can only have one CIB and I needn’t have bothered. There’s still going to be a best option, but it’ll be a combination of of the things in the box, not extra stuff for me to buy. 
 

There are some big problems with today’s system though. It has coincided with a reduction in the options kits give you, in some cases. The results also don’t always match the fluff. 
 

So for example there’s no real reason DKoK sergeants should all have plasma pistols and power swords, while Catachan ones get nothing. It’s just because of what’s on a sprue - which was originally designed for Kill team and therefore has extra options. 
 

Some things in the guard codex, like the  Krieg command squad, take this to an absurd place. The box has a commissar in, so he’s a member of the squad.
 

I can’t explain why they didn’t just put a sticker on the box to say it had a command squad and a commissar. That would have been fine, especially as they talk a lot about there being loads of Krieg commissars. 
 

Similarly they could have given us a generic Colonel instead of the Cadian Castellan. Then people could have made their own army leaders if they wanted, or used the official figure if they liked as well. 

The weapon balance issue isn’t fixed by this…

Cadians can still take 2 flamers or 2 plasma guns…

[MechaMan]

14 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

They did, there's some available on 3rd party websites at a glance like Element.

I think they’re available to order but not in stock, and it’s been that way since December as far as I can tell. Maybe they’re just selling out instantly due to hype around the new models? 

[INKS]

27 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

But weren’t they reboxed and released this December? Or am I going crazy? 

correct they were for the new launch of kill team, but the team itself will be out of tournament play before the end of 2025. And stock has always been low, I am not saying they won't be back in stock but at some point, somewhat soon they will also get reboxed, because you need them for 40k, but you won't need them for kill team

[Dark Legionnare]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The weapon balance issue isn’t fixed by this…

Cadians can still take 2 flamers or 2 plasma guns…

Yeah. Novel concept, I know, but folks used to get compensated points for suboptimal picks for the sake of flavor/theme! </joking>

Edited yesterday at 05:13 AM by Dark Legionnare

[Sky Potato]

11 hours ago, MechaMan said:

I think they’re available to order but not in stock, and it’s been that way since December as far as I can tell. Maybe they’re just selling out instantly due to hype around the new models? 

I reckon that’s a part of it. I know I bought 3 extra boxes of Krieg to go with the box set.

[phandaal]

10 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Yeah. Novel concept, I know, but folks used to get compensated points for suboptimal picks for the sake of flavor/theme! </joking>

 

What is this "Points" you are talking about? The only "Points" I know is the system we have today where everything costs a single flat amount, and your lasgun has the exact same value as a plasma gun or flamer!

 

BTW - this is completely different from the old Power Level system we had, where everything costed a single flat amount, and your lasgun had the exact same value as a plasma gun or flamer. It is different because there is an extra digit on the end of the number.