Krieg Boxset

[Norman Paperman]

1 hour ago, Matrindur said:

According to Auspex Tactics this will be the AM CP so the Krieg army set won't be the CP contents

 

 

They did announce this on the reveal stream.

 

10 Roughriders and no Krieg or even artillery make this a puzzling choice. Not surprised that Guard has low points value, there's still a lot of plastic in the box, but as someone who's looking to dive into the army with the Krieg box, I think this CP is a clear miss. No artillery, no vehicles, who's buying Guard because they've got horses? I can just play REDACTED if I want horses!

[DemonGSides]

27 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Well seems like I'm not the only one who missed it since I haven't seen discussion about it

 

It was talked about in one of the other threads dedicated to this reveal, I think the actual Saturday Reveal thread.  This thread is about the Boxset specifically.

It's just an underwhelming combat patrol that feels like "Here's some leftover stuff" as opposed to a coherent force.  Sure a command squad can order the kasrkin, but they aren't normally near each other and the Command Squad is normally hanging with a regular squad.

Just a weird box.

This is all off topic anyways, since this is the thread about the Boxset ;)

Edited November 26 by DemonGSides

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

45 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

They did announce this on the reveal stream.

 

10 Roughriders and no Krieg or even artillery make this a puzzling choice. Not surprised that Guard has low points value, there's still a lot of plastic in the box, but as someone who's looking to dive into the army with the Krieg box, I think this CP is a clear miss. No artillery, no vehicles, who's buying Guard because they've got horses? I can just play REDACTED if I want horses!

Rough riders have been a fan favorite for a long time.

[DemonGSides]

3 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Rough riders have been a fan favorite for a long time.

 

I think less that Rough Riders are unpopular; I think they're quite popular, there was a recent whole big discussion about them right in our IG forum.

I think it's more that this Combat Patrol makes no sense, when these exact units, almost unit for unit, are coming out in Krieg, at the exact same time.

Like, you're telling me this CP couldn't be the new Krieg Command Squad, the new Death Riders, and a unit of the Engineers (Or even just the Veteran Squad itself) and it wouldn't make a lot more sense both A) In universe and B) in marketing/sales world?

It's just a weird box!  One I'll probably get; I can TECHNICALLY fit another 10 Kasrkin into the army, I have room for another 10 Rough Riders for certain, and a command squad is just good ol bits box material if nothing else, but I don't think I'd ever want to play this combat patrol.

[ThePenitentOne]

It does make sense that they wouldn't want to duplicate the launch box though. Like, if a new player buys the launchbox, they can still benefit from having the CP as well, so they might buy both.

 

If instead, they do it your way, our theoretical player buys the launchbox and then looks at CP and already has most of what's in the box. You can argue that doubling up on units isn't actually a bad idea for our theoretical new player if they want to eventually have a 2k force... And it's true. So I could see a complimentary Krieg box with no duplicates from the launch box... So you'd get the command squad, the Kill Team and a heavy weapon team. That's a little light, so maybe you double up on the kill team or the heavy weapons, or maybe through in a vehicle.

 

Buy both boxes and you're on your way to decent army without a whole lot of duplication.

 

In terms of this CP box, it's just missing Cadian Troops- swap one of the rider units with Cadian Shock Troops and it would be fine fluffwise. And you've got to think about the company not wanting to put all their box set eggs in one Krieg basket. People who don't like Krieg would have no boxed set... Even if they did the no-duplicates Krieg CP. 

[Wispy]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:14 PM, TheTrans said:

Absolutely love how dynamic the new Krieg Steeds are, but god damn... do the riders suck... they've lost the cool 'elite' vibe they had, with the single piece chest armour and the back mounted, grenadier styled respirator. The new masks just suck though I feel they are really showing the limitation of plastic by comparison to resin. 

Outside the horses, all of the non-vehicle/weapon models just have a very cartoony vibe to them (probably exemplified by how sort of gritty and realistic feeling the originals where). 

the new riders don't look particularly less elite to me. perhaps more elite now because the horses have armour now too.

 

was it the longer coats perhaps?

[Sky Potato]

5 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Sure, that's why I said it's a pipe dream, but also, I disagree.  It would be about the same amount of kits now, you'd just buy kits by the body and then buy the weapons separately.

So you'd buy "Vostroyans" which is a kit of Vostroyans with Vostroyan like Las rifles, and then somewhere else there'd be a "Imperial Guard Weapons Upgrade Pack" That's just a bunch of generalized weapons with generic gloved hands that can fit into the conveniently included arms on Vostroyan sprues.

Same thing with like a "heavy weapons team", and maybe even "Rough Rider Horses" so you can have whatever themed horsemen you want to, etc etc.

It wouldn't end up with THAT many more kits than other forces, and it's OK for different forces to be sold different ways; this way wouldn't work for Space Marines or Votaan, or most other factions.  But Guard could be unique and not get that much more support (Certainly less support than the current paradigm, where they seem to want individual datasheets AND boxes for Krieg and Cadian and then also a general "infantry" squad sheet),  and make most if not all of their players happy.

Your suggestion is very actually very similar to how GW are supporting the 30k line.

 

Currently, you can buy a box of either Mk3 or Mk6 marines, all armed with standard bolters. You can then buy separate sprues with special weapons, heavy weapons or melee weapons, depending on what units you want to create.

 

There are other instances of future proofing on the 30k line. The riders on the jetbikes are on a separate sprue from the bikes, meaning in theory that the armour mark of the riders could be changed later down the line. There are separate dreadnought weapon sprues available, for multiple platforms etc.

 

Its not perfect, but GW have handled the modularity aspect of the 30k line pretty well.

 

For your suggestion to work, I guess the real question is, “Will the main 40K studio start acting like the Specialist Games Studio that’s running The Horus Heresy?”

[Sky Potato]

13 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

No thanks.  I'd rather they go down to just non-model attributed entries; "Infantry Squad" is infinitely more appealing to me than "Cadian Squad" or "Death korp of Krieg" squad.

Let me have either a full thematic army of one type of regiment if I want it that way, or let me have a hodge podge regiment that looks how I want if I want it that way.  The way the rules are currently coded, it pushes the idea of the hodge podge because the datacards are name.  I am not one who's a stickler for the sort that would require DKK to be used with a DKK datacard, but those people do exist and it would be nice for GW to embrace "Your models, your force".

Like, the IG codex could/should be pretty light, even if their model range isn't

 

4-5 types of leaders, with like 3-4 named guys

2 Battle Line Types;

Conscript/Militia

Regular (Currently Infantry Squad)

 

3-4 "Better" infantry

Close quarter/Scouting leaning (Currently Catachans)

Dig in and Survive (Current DKOK)

Assault/Point Capture (Currently Cadians (kinda))

 

Then Elite infantry

Stormtrooper Specialist (Kasrkin)

Rapid Insertion Specialists (Scions)

Ogryns of various stripes

Then vehicles can be upgraded with various upgrade kits for the various regiments people like.

 

 

All of the above can be made with whatever regiment you like, just have specific loadouts/specialists attached to them.  That'd be my ideal.  Very much a pipe dream cuz of Chapterhouse stuff.

 

It’s a shame there’s only one reaction I can give to a post.

 

This would be the Heresy approach to how they dealt with the individual legions. Generic leader units that can outfitted however you want, standard units available to all, and specific units as per your legion choice.

 

It’s a great approach. It’s also a complete 180 from the 10th paradigm of fixed loadouts and unit options are restricted to what’s in the box.

 

Maybe 11th?

[Arikel]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think it's more that this Combat Patrol makes no sense

It’s actually a really good box for me and likely others who got on the guard  bandwagon recently. I got the 9th ed army box and christmas box, so I have  40 foot sloggers, a sentinel, 2 dorns  and some command. I don’t have any karskin or horsies though so the only thing I would double up on is the command squad, which is fun bits anyways

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, Sky Potato said:

It’s a shame there’s only one reaction I can give to a post.

 

This would be the Heresy approach to how they dealt with the individual legions. Generic leader units that can outfitted however you want, standard units available to all, and specific units as per your legion choice.

 

It’s a great approach. It’s also a complete 180 from the 10th paradigm of fixed loadouts and unit options are restricted to what’s in the box.

 

Maybe 11th?

Wouldn't bet on it. 10th is making too much money to bet on a risk. If HH was way more profitable for them, then maybe but I think 40k dwarfs it by a margin.

 

I think I said in the other thread that Combat Patrol needs the same love that Spearhead is getting as the boxes still don't seem balanced in the slightest, and the guard one here doesn't change that.

 

As for the Krieg themselves, I think they look fine. Not going to jump on them or anything mind, but it is nice to see them bulking up the guard range. Now let the more forgotten regiments have a turn next (Kill Team would be a great way to trial these things out).

 

There was chatter up thread about krieg using telephones with gas masks on but I swear, didn't we already see that anyway in the Kill Team: Octarius reveal trailer back on '21? Or have I lost the plot (again).

[DemonGSides]

9 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

It does make sense that they wouldn't want to duplicate the launch box though. Like, if a new player buys the launchbox, they can still benefit from having the CP as well, so they might buy both.

 

If instead, they do it your way, our theoretical player buys the launchbox and then looks at CP and already has most of what's in the box. You can argue that doubling up on units isn't actually a bad idea for our theoretical new player if they want to eventually have a 2k force... And it's true. So I could see a complimentary Krieg box with no duplicates from the launch box... So you'd get the command squad, the Kill Team and a heavy weapon team. That's a little light, so maybe you double up on the kill team or the heavy weapons, or maybe through in a vehicle.

 

Buy both boxes and you're on your way to decent army without a whole lot of duplication.

 

In terms of this CP box, it's just missing Cadian Troops- swap one of the rider units with Cadian Shock Troops and it would be fine fluffwise. And you've got to think about the company not wanting to put all their box set eggs in one Krieg basket. People who don't like Krieg would have no boxed set... Even if they did the no-duplicates Krieg CP. 

 

This would make any sort of sense except that the original IG refresh box was legitimately just their combat patrol box, so there's even precedent for it.  And the last box was entirely Cadian so I'm not sure the idea of "this box is one regiment" is outside of GW wheelhouse. 

 

GW doesn't design boxes to build armies. They design boxes to make money.

 

6 hours ago, Arikel said:

It’s actually a really good box for me and likely others who got on the guard  bandwagon recently. I got the 9th ed army box and christmas box, so I have  40 foot sloggers, a sentinel, 2 dorns  and some command. I don’t have any karskin or horsies though so the only thing I would double up on is the command squad, which is fun bits anyways

 

I mean, my first IG purchased was in 2023 buying an on sale 9th edition IG army box. I am the exact person you describe as this to be good for and I'm just scratching my head at how it's a good box. I don't need more command squads than I have infantry squads to attach them to.

 

It's a head scratcher of a box for sure. It's solid for filling out a collection, and as I said previously I'll grab one just to get my RR to 20 and my Kasrkin to 30 without having to pay an arm and a leg, but it's still a weird box that's ostensibly supposed to be aimed at playing Combat Patrol, which I think is gonna be tough. 

Edited November 26 by DemonGSides

[chapter master 454]

I think it's important to remember that the death riders are being given a different role in their new form. Instead of being "Rough Riders but krieg skin pack" these guys are meant to be flanking units that aren't meant to be damage dealers and more about skirmishing. Not sure how valid they will be in that role due to being mounted and thus cast to the winds of whims that are "everything is a ruin, hehe haha good luck anything not infantry or beast" however it is nice to see them given a different role to the rough riders.

 

As for the CP, mixed. I feel that as a CP it fails but on the other it is a great addition to anyone who already has guard.

Overall...passable barely.

[01RTB01]

What's supposed to be in the new CP box?

[DemonGSides]

38 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

What's supposed to be in the new CP box?

There's a few threads about it already, but;

 

Cadian command squad

5x Rough Riders

5x Rough riders

10x Kasrkin

[soviet1337]

They can probably do Catachans justice with a limited number of kits. A new infantry squad introduced through Kill Team. A new command squad and heavy weapon squad would be nice, but not essential. Rerelease the couple of commemorative characters they did in the last few years. Then what, maybe an upgrade sprue, another character, and some kind of new recon vehicle or command sentinel variant.

 

You then have three overlapping ranges covering WW1/WW2/Vietnam in terms of imagery and infantry/tanks/skirmishers in terms of playstyle. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

20 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think less that Rough Riders are unpopular; I think they're quite popular, there was a recent whole big discussion about them right in our IG forum.

I think it's more that this Combat Patrol makes no sense, when these exact units, almost unit for unit, are coming out in Krieg, at the exact same time.

Like, you're telling me this CP couldn't be the new Krieg Command Squad, the new Death Riders, and a unit of the Engineers (Or even just the Veteran Squad itself) and it wouldn't make a lot more sense both A) In universe and B) in marketing/sales world?

It's just a weird box!  One I'll probably get; I can TECHNICALLY fit another 10 Kasrkin into the army, I have room for another 10 Rough Riders for certain, and a command squad is just good ol bits box material if nothing else, but I don't think I'd ever want to play this combat patrol.

…there’s already the krieg box, and the CP is supposed to be the introduction to a faction.

krieg aren’t the baseline of the faction, so they’re not going to be the CP.

 

 

[Emperor Ming]

RR's in the cp box and DR's in the army box,, its cav overkill

 

I guess we all wanted more cav right?

 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how much we are getting for Krieg. I figured we'd get a heavy weapons team,  a kit to make either engineers and/or grenadiers and an HQ or two. I figured the rest would be covered via an upgrade set with replacement Krieg crew for the field ordinance batteries, replacement Krieg riders to convert the rough riders into death riders and some Krieg tank crew for the Leman Russ and Rogal Doen battle tanks. So far it appears the only thi g I thought we'd get that we didn't is the tank crew, which is a little disappointing, but at at the end of the day no biggie.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

…there’s already the krieg box, and the CP is supposed to be the introduction to a faction.

krieg aren’t the baseline of the faction, so they’re not going to be the CP.

 

Attillans are less representative of what's available to the faction than krieg so I'm not sure your logic flows but whatever, I agree it's supposed to be an introduction.

It's a weird introductory product either way.

[TheMawr]

25 minutes ago, FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants said:

I'm pleasantly surprised by how much we are getting for Krieg. I figured we'd get a heavy weapons team,  a kit to make either engineers and/or grenadiers and an HQ or two. I figured the rest would be covered via an upgrade set with replacement Krieg crew for the field ordinance batteries, replacement Krieg riders to convert the rough riders into death riders and some Krieg tank crew for the Leman Russ and Rogal Doen battle tanks. So far it appears the only thi g I thought we'd get that we didn't is the tank crew, which is a little disappointing, but at at the end of the day no biggie.

 

It might be a bit on the expensive side compared to an upgrade sprue but :

When taking a second command squad, using the commisar as the basis for a solo commissar character ( its datasheet is regiment agnostic anyway ) and the medic as the basis of a krieg themed primaris psyker. It leaves you with the spotter as easy (tank) crew, and three more bodies left to make non krieg elements more krieg, one can be easily for a tank commander, and the other two can replace more usable bodies in the main kit.

[Matrindur]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

…there’s already the krieg box, and the CP is supposed to be the introduction to a faction.

krieg aren’t the baseline of the faction, so they’re not going to be the CP.

But Rough Riders and Kasrkin are the baseline of the faction instead of Cadian infantry?

 

The old CP made way more sense as an introduction while the new one is more an expansion box for people already playing AM

 

Also the old CP was also 1:1 the Cadian army set. Thats why many expected a Krieg army set to also be the new CP. But yes they moved away from that this edition.

[Handsome Fred]

2 hours ago, Matrindur said:

But Rough Riders and Kasrkin are the baseline of the faction instead of Cadian infantry?

 

The old CP made way more sense as an introduction while the new one is more an expansion box for people already playing AM

 

Also the old CP was also 1:1 the Cadian army set. Thats why many expected a Krieg army set to also be the new CP. But yes they moved away from that this edition.

 

Can I be frank? A cp is meant to learn the basics of 40k in a balanced enviorment (almost).

The old cp with basics guards in so low number wasn't what the gamemode needed.

Kasrkin with the 4+, good rules and weapons in a so low body count box (and point) are better for a beginner.

The Rough Riders? I don't think gw sold a lot of them and will not be better with the Death Riders on the store :D

[apologist]

Speaking as a big Rough Rider enthusiast, I really wanted to like the recent set, but a combination of the Attillan aesthetics and steep price made me leave 'em on the shelf. A bundle deal seems great – but any savings are wiped out by the inclusion of the other elements. If I do get any Rough Riders, I'll likely pick them up on the second-hand market, but I won't go out of my way for them.

 

The Krieg likewise leave me a bit cold – I like my baseline humans to have a bit more character and personality. Missed opportunity to bring them back in like with the original concept, in my opinion – though I'll concede the point that I'm likely in the minority!

 

 

For what they are, the new releases are nice. There's been a certain amount of adaptation and development from the FW originals, but I think that's fairly inevitable in changing to plastic from resin. Some choices I like; others I think are a downgrade, but either way, I'm glad there are more options for Guard. :)

Edited November 27 by apologist

[Indy Techwisp]

So what do people think is leaving the Guard Codex to make way for this?

It should be 5 kits that need to be removed to make space.

 

I'm thinking it'll be Servitors, Regimental Attache, Stracken, Harker and Sly Marbo.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Attillans are less representative of what's available to the faction than krieg so I'm not sure your logic flows but whatever, I agree it's supposed to be an introduction.

It's a weird introductory product either way.

I agree it’s a weird introduction, but it is still 2 Cadian units and 1 non-Cadian.

 

and even then RRs blend with Cadians pretty well with a simple head swap.