Tau Tidewall

[ExeterOborach]

If a unit of Fire Warriors is embarked on a Tidewall and I then choose the Tidewall to be my Guided unit, do the Firewarriors then get +1 BS when firing from it even though they are a separate unit? 

Thanks.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, ExeterOborach said:

If a unit of Fire Warriors is embarked on a Tidewall and I then choose the Tidewall to be my Guided unit, do the Firewarriors then get +1 BS when firing from it even though they are a separate unit? 

Thanks.

 

You can't choose a unit that's riding in a Transport as your Guided unit.
You can choose the Transport to be guided however, in which case the Guiding applies to all weapons it has (including via Firing Deck which allows you to treat X number of Weapons equipped by an embarked unit as being equipped by the Vehicle, where X is your Firing Deck number).

That said...

At time of writing the Tidewall Shield Line cannot actually use it's Firing Deck keyword as it has no weapons on it innately and thus it isn't eligible to Shoot even if it's transporting Fire Warriors as you select your Firing Deck weapons after being selected to Shoot which the Tidewall cannot do because it doesn't have any guns of it's own.

Edited November 30 by Indy Techwisp

[Wormwoods]

Incredible rules interaction there. I feel like at a home game you just ignore that, and say that the firing deck guns are viable. 

[Lord_Ikka]

On 11/30/2024 at 3:29 PM, Indy Techwisp said:

At time of writing the Tidewall Shield Line cannot actually use it's Firing Deck keyword as it has no weapons on it innately and thus it isn't eligible to Shoot even if it's transporting Fire Warriors as you select your Firing Deck weapons after being selected to Shoot which the Tidewall cannot do because it doesn't have any guns of it's own.

Incorrect, as explained in the Core Rules Update/Rules Commentary, a unit is always eligible to shoot even if it does not have ranged weaponry:

 

Eligible to Shoot (when not equipped with ranged weapons): Unless a unit Advanced or Fell Back this turn or is Locked in Combat, it is eligible to shoot, even if no models in that unit are equipped with ranged weapons. This means that such units can be selected for any rules that require you to select a unit that is eligible to shoot.

 

In this case, yes, the Tidewall can be guided and the Firing Deck weapons will gain the benefits.

Edited December 2 by Lord_Ikka

[Indy Techwisp]

On 12/2/2024 at 5:19 AM, Lord_Ikka said:

Incorrect, as explained in the Core Rules Update/Rules Commentary, a unit is always eligible to shoot even if it does not have ranged weaponry:

 

Eligible to Shoot (when not equipped with ranged weapons): Unless a unit Advanced or Fell Back this turn or is Locked in Combat, it is eligible to shoot, even if no models in that unit are equipped with ranged weapons. This means that such units can be selected for any rules that require you to select a unit that is eligible to shoot.

 

In this case, yes, the Tidewall can be guided and the Firing Deck weapons will gain the benefits.

I was under the assumption you selected Firing Deck weapons when you selected the Transport to Shoot tho.

While it is eligible to Shoot, it cannot actually shoot since it doesn't have any guns, so you cannot select it to shoot, right?

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I was under the assumption you selected Firing Deck weapons when you selected the Transport to Shoot tho.

While it is eligible to Shoot, it cannot actually shoot since it doesn't have any guns, so you cannot select it to shoot, right?

 

No?  If there firing deck then they become choosable weapons.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I see where you are coming from, @Indy Techwisp, but the rules don't quite work that way.

 

As I see first you determine whether a unit is eligible to shoot - for which the rules read (copy-pasted from the PDF rulebook, not sure how to do the cut-and-paste thing DemonGSides did):

 

"In your Shooting phase, if you have one or more eligible units from your army on the battlefield, you can select those units, one at a time, and shoot with them. Each unit can only be selected to shoot once per phase. Once all of the units you selected have shot, progress to your Charge phase.
A unit is eligible to shoot unless any of the following apply:
■ That unit Advanced this turn.
■ That unit Fell Back this turn." (emphasis added)

 

So, choosing a unit to shoot doesn't depend on whether it actually has weapons it can shoot, just whether it is "eligible" whose definition boils down to what it did in the movement phase.

 

Now, to choose a target, you do have to have a shooting weapon, as you can only target something within range and LOS.  The applicable language is:

 

"Each time a unit shoots, before any attacks are resolved, you must select the enemy units that will be the targets for all of the ranged weapons you wish its models to make attacks with.  Each time you select a target for a model’s ranged weapon, you can only select an enemy unit as the target if at least one model in that unit is both within range of that weapon and visible to that attacking model (pg 8)." (emphasis added)

 

That said, by the time you get to the targeting portion, the firing decks rule has already kicked in as that activates at the "choose unit to shoot" step which involves determining shooting eligibility, as set out above.

Edited December 3 by Dr_Ruminahui

[DemonGSides]

10 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I see where you are coming from, @Indy Techwisp, but the rules don't quite work that way.

 

As I see first you determine whether a unit is eligible to shoot - for which the rules read (copy-pasted from the PDF rulebook, not sure how to do the cut-and-paste thing Demonslides did):

 

"In your Shooting phase, if you have one or more eligible units from your army on the battlefield, you can select those units, one at a time, and shoot with them. Each unit can only be selected to shoot once per phase. Once all of the units you selected have shot, progress to your Charge phase.
A unit is eligible to shoot unless any of the following apply:
■ That unit Advanced this turn.
■ That unit Fell Back this turn." (emphasis added)

 

So, choosing a unit to shoot doesn't depend on whether it actually has weapons it can shoot, just whether it is "eligible" whose definition boils down to what it did in the movement phase.

 

Now, to choose a target, you do have to have a shooting weapon, as you can only target something within range and LOS.  The applicable language is:

 

"Each time a unit shoots, before any attacks are resolved, you must select the enemy units that will be the targets for all of the ranged weapons you wish its models to make attacks with.  Each time you select a target for a model’s ranged weapon, you can only select an enemy unit as the target if at least one model in that unit is both within range of that weapon and visible to that attacking model (pg 8)." (emphasis added)

 

That said, by the time you get to the targeting portion, the firing decks rule has already kicked in as that activates at the "choose unit to shoot" step which involves determining shooting eligibility, as set out above.

 

Very easy to snip Dr. Ruminahui, I used the online version of the rules and the snipping tool on Windows. 

Edited December 4 by DemonGSides