New Detachment tomorrow!

[L30n1d4s]

WARCOM started the Advent Calendar today with Death Guard and teased that DA get their detachment released tomorrow - - what are you all hoping for?

 

As I posted in another Forum, I'm hoping for a detachment that emphasizes/rewards all three wings working together, something like this:

 

<<SWORD OF CALIBAN Task Force>>

 

DETACHMENT RULE:

*As long as the army contains at least one Deathwing Terminator/Bladeguard unit with at least 3 models still alive, add +1 Dmg for any Critical Wounds rolled by friendly Astartes melee attacks.

*As long as the army contains at least one Ravenwing Mounted unit with at least 3 models still alive, add +3" to the Pile in and Consolidate moves for all friendly Astartes units in the army.

*As long as the army contains at least one Astartes Infantry Battleline unit with at least 5 models still alive, add -1AP for any Critical Wounds by friendly Astartes ranged weapons.

 

 

ENHANCEMENTS 

1 - Standard of Fortitude - (Terminator Ancient/Bladeguard Ancient only) -- Bearer's unit gains 6+++ FNP. If within range of an Objective, gains 5+++ FNP instead.

 

2 - Standard of Retribution - (Ancient only) -- Bearer's unit rerolls 1s to Hit. If any models have been lost, rerolls all Hits.

 

3 - Standard of Vengeance - (Ravenwing Command Squad Ancient only) - All friendly Astartes Non-Vehicle units within 6" of bearer gain -1AP on their melee attacks on a turn they charge.

 

4 - Standard of Devastation  - (Company Heroes Ancient only) - All friendly Astartes Non-Vehicle units within 6" of bearer gain Sustained Hits (1).

 

STRATAGEMS 

1 - Armour of Contempt (1 CP) 

 

2 - Weapons of the Dark Age (1 CP/Shooting Phase) - one friendly Astartes unit's Plasma Weapons gain +1 Dmg until the end of the Shooting Phase. If the targeted unit has 6 or more models, this Stratagem costs 2CP.

 

3 - Reverred Relics (2 CP/Command Phase) - If targeting a Darkshroud, add 6" to its Icon of Old Caliban aura until the next friendly Command Phase. Alternatively, if targeting a Land Speeder Vengeance, then choose one enemy unit hit this turn with its Plasma Storm Battery -- Dark Angel units can ignore any/all modifiers when targeting that unit until the end of the next friendly Shooting Phase.

 

4 - Hunting the Fallen (1 CP/Movement Phase) - One friendly Astartes infantry unit in Reserves can arrive one turn earlier than normal and add +1" to their charge rolls until the next friendly Command Phase, but must arrive wholly within 6" of selected Ravenwing unit.

 

5 - Veteran Fortitude (1 CP/Command Phase) - One friendly Astartes non-Deathwing infantry or mounted unit within 6" of the selected Deathwing unit gain +1 OC/+1 Ld until the end of the end of the next friendly Command Phase.

 

6 - Fury of the Lion (1 CP/Shooting or Fight Phase) - One friendly Deathwing or Ravenwing unit within 6" of selected friendly Astartes Battleline unit gains -1AP to its attacks until the end of the phase.

Edited Sunday at 11:11 PM by L30n1d4s

[N1SB]

So it's up at https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bo59fcgg/grotmas-calendar-day-2-hark-the-dark-angels/

 

17 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

As I posted in another Forum, I'm hoping for a detachment that emphasizes/rewards all three wings working together, something like this:

 

<<SWORD OF CALIBAN Task Force>>

 

DETACHMENT RULE:

*As long as the army contains at least one Deathwing Terminator/Bladeguard unit with at least 3 models still alive, add +1 Dmg for any Critical Wounds rolled by friendly Astartes melee attacks.

*As long as the army contains at least one Ravenwing Mounted unit with at least 3 models still alive, add +3" to the Pile in and Consolidate moves for all friendly Astartes units in the army.

 

From the article:

 

Quote

A Lion’s Blade Task Force combines the speed and manoeuvrability of the Ravenwing with the obdurate might of the Deathwing.

 

Brother Leonidas...how did you know!?  Do you have the gift of the wyrding sight to foresee this?

 

Oh, I should totally say something strategic or something.  I think it'll depend on the points cost changes of Ravenwing Black Knights and their Command Squad; atm, I think they're a little on the high side compared to Deathwing Knights (actually, would be curious if they get a points increase, too).  But this looks cool.

Edited Monday at 12:51 PM by N1SB

[Prot]

I guess we'll just continue this thread? 

 

Now that it's official let's break it down and see if we like it.

 

The beauty is it combines the major elements of the DA. This was a giant hole in the existing codex. But is it good enough reason to combine arms, and use it? 

 

The detachment rules: The Lion's Claws:

 

■ Each time an enemy unit (excluding Monsters and Vehicles) within Engagement Range of one or more Ravenwing units from your army Falls Back, all models in that enemy unit must take a Desperate Escape test. When doing so, if that enemy unit is Battle‑shocked, subtract 1 from each of those tests.

 

■ Each time a Deathwing unit from your army declares a charge, if one or more targets of that charge are within Engagement Range of one or more Ravenwing units from your army, add 2 to the Charge roll.

 

So this is fairly lethargic. A lot of base detachment rules are spicier, BUT many are worse, and may get played for other reasons (IE: Strats). 

 

The Bad:

Loyalist bikes are really, really bad this edition. Clunky, not good at anything in particular, easy to remove from the table, or block out in this edition's love of terrain heavy tables. They simply have no bite. I've used Plasma Talons/Knights many times and I always feel a little underwhelmed. Deathwing Knights cost a lot more now. They are good, but right off the hop we're being asked to combine two pricey categories. Battle Shock.... it's still a really underwhelming mechanism to include in anyone's base strategy. 

 

The Good:

I don't have my codex with me, but isn't any unit with a jump pack considered "Ravenwing" now? 

Also bikes don't necessarily like melee, but with +2 to charge for the Deathwing, it's not like they will be alone in that melee for long.

Deathwing keyword: It's much easier to get than the Ravenwing keyword simply by leveraging characters.

 

Enhancements:

 

Calibinite Armaments: + 1 to damage is always good. But feels like it should have done something else... small bonus maybe? (Take battleshock?)

 

Lord of the Hunt: Ravewning: Shoot and Declare Charge, reroll Desperate Escapes. Not bad, but I've often used the Ravenwing HQ with Black Knights, and their enhancement is super similar. This is very usable though. A bit more utility than the Ravenwing specific version.

 

Stalwart Champion: Capt/Chap/Lt. only. +1 to OC's unit if not battle shocked. It might be just me but for 25 points I won't be touching this.

 

Fulgus Magna: Sounds very Emperor's Children-ish doesn't it? Deathwing Only. Once per battle. (Meh) Unengaged Termies, at end of opponent's turn, can be put back in reserves.   This is the built in rule for Custodes Termie's.  Honestly with the cost of these units, I'll be using Scouts which have this built in. I'm not sure if I'd pay point for it on Termies, BUT maybe there's use for it on another unit? 

 

Strategems:

 

Overpowering Extraction:

 

Force a Battleshock test with an engaged unit. If Ravenwing/Deathwing is invovled, -1 to the test. Believe it or not this might be really big. I don't know how many games I've had where a swing on the primary for a key objective can make or break those tight games. At 1 CP I will definitely be using this.

 

Armour of Contempt: Yes please, just put it straight into my veins...

 

Strength In Unity: Fight Phase:  When targeting Ravenwing -1 to hit. If targeting Deathwing with Strength>toughness, -1 to wound roll. (Can't use with A.C.) So this is a survivablilty strat from the Deathwing Detachment expanded to help Ravenwing. 

 

So the way I'm reading this it could be really good if you have Ravenwing AND Deathwing in the same melee. It seems to be triggered by an enemy targeting any of your Astartes units in melee. However, RAW I see it as affecting the enemy unit against any/all Ravenwing and Deathwing in engagement. It might be situational, but not bad when it comes into play.

 

Knights of Iron: Ravenwing: Allows the unit to move/advance or charge through terrain. This is pretty huge. It allows you to play 'gotcha' 40K. Someone hiding something behind a building is now in risk of getting hit. Bikes have a good amount of disadvantages in 10th edition, this helps mitigate that for 1 CP.

 

Illuminating Fire: Shooting Phase- Select a Ravenwing's shooting target. The rest of the phase Deathwing get to add +1 to wound against that same target.

 

This seems so close to being good. It's just really awkward. So I have to blow two units firing at one unit to give the (lethargic) Deathwing a boost. That is unless we are talking about Hellblasters. This could be good, but requires essentially wasting the Ravenwing's shooting phase. My biggest issue with Hellblasters is they don't have a good niche, but this might make them quite scary now. But the points for such a list is looking really high. Anyone have a better use case for this? I feel like I'm missing something. Best case might be Stormspeeder of choice + Ballistus?

 

Inescapable Wrath: 2CP: End of opponent's charge phase. Deathwing Infantry, or DW Walker can make a counter charge. This is counter charge on steroids. As long as your opponent is within 6" this could be triggered. 

 

 

So there you have it. The cole's notes version. 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

40 minutes ago, Prot said:

I don't have my codex with me, but isn't any unit with a jump pack considered "Ravenwing" now? 

 

Unfortunately not. Only MOUNTED units and VEHICLES with the FLY keyword. 

[HeadlessCross]

Yeah this detachment ain't it. I'd even rather use the Unforgiven Task Force. 

[Prot]

Ah well. I've played every other detachment several times, and I'll give this a whirl. I've always preferred ICT just for the termies, but at least this leverages multi-wing.

[N1SB]

21 hours ago, Prot said:

The Bad:

Loyalist bikes are really, really bad this edition. Clunky, not good at anything in particular, easy to remove from the table, or block out in this edition's love of terrain heavy tables. They simply have no bite. I've used Plasma Talons/Knights many times and I always feel a little underwhelmed. Deathwing Knights cost a lot more now. They are good, but right off the hop we're being asked to combine two pricey categories. Battle Shock.... it's still a really underwhelming mechanism to include in anyone's base strategy. 

 

I think you're right, it comes down to this, the Detachment relies on units that are simply not very attractive.  And what you said about how you have to commit to 2 pricey things, that's a really good point.  It's not something you can just pepper in, you're really going all in with 2 big bets.

 

I did hear a funny thing just listening to YouTube videos; the Mario Kart ATVs seem to technically fulfill the Ravenwing requirement, so you just throw el cheapo ATVs to bring out Deathwing.  That is kinda hilarious to me.  But it's like if you have to resort to this sort of technicality, is it really good?  I dunno.

 

Update - this gets better & better.  I'm looking around, looks like the +1 to Wound Stratagem is where the interest is at.  Have Storm Speeder Hammerstrikes and Ballistus Dreads, because technically, they count as Raven/Deathwing.  The Hammerstrikes debuff and apply the Stratagem, the Dreads apply +1 Wound.  This doesn't use Ravenwing/Deathwing Knights, it's just a goofy way to apply 1 Stratagem.

Edited 21 hours ago by N1SB