Hexwarp Thrallband Detachment

[Ahzek451]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/d1mcf5ae/grotmas-calendar-day-4-a-light-dusting-of-snow/

Things have been fairly quite for us as far as anything new this edition, figured we could do with a bit of discussion on the latest from GW. 

What do folks think of the detachment, good, bad, ugly, neutral? Generally I have seen a lot of neutral to negative reactions to it so far but those are just first impressions. Do we see this as a contender for the cult of magic or better left to collect dust in the detachment tool box? 

[Karhedron]

On balance I see this as worse than Cult of Magic. The Detachment Rule working only on Psychic attacks basically restricts the benefits to Characters and Aspiring Sorcerers. I can see the fun of using Through the Veil to drop in some big blocks of Deep Striking Rubrics with Warpflamers but I don't think that is enough to build an army around.

[Ahzek451]

I suppose this detachment also disincentivizes using magnus and ahriman as they already have the +1 to wound. Which could be seen as a good thing, in a way. Competitively speaking I am not saying it means it would be better than the cult of magic, but rather, for those that are sick of seeing the same 2 characters in T.sons lists there is another route to try. 

Flood this detachment with exalted, rubrics, SOT,  and infernal masters I suppose. 

Edited December 4 by Ahzek451

[N1SB]

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

Competitively speaking I am not saying it means it would be better than the cult of magic, but rather, for those that are sick of seeing the same 2 characters in T.sons lists there is another route to try. 

Flood this detachment with exalted, rubrics, SOT,  and infernal masters I suppose. 

 

Brother Ahzek, I think you may be onto something here.  It's for Crusade campaigns.  We're doing the Pariah Nexus now.

 

Epic characters, like named ones such as Magnus and Ahriman, can't take upgrades from leveling up in a Crusade.  There's usually some really neat things specific to a campaign, but sometimes even simple things like +1 Damage to some attack is a game changer.  That alone MAY make an unnamed Exalted Sorcerer preferable to Ahriman, some combo of upgrades.  As for Magnus, I guess Crusade are 1000 pt games so ppl usually won't take a pricey Primarch.

 

I'll give an example, but on the Necron side.  I was taking the Nightbringer (he's great), Deceiver (he's lousy), but also a Transcendant C'tan.  There was this new player observing, and he's kinda objective, doesn't know the reputations of the miniatures, doesn't know who has what upgrades.  But from his vantage, he said he thought the Transcendant C'tan was "the main character/protagonist" of the army as she got most of the kills.  I didn't even notice 'til he said it.

 

I agree with you guys, but now that Brother Ahzek mentioned it, I think there might be a lane for a situation like in a Crusade to use this.  What do you think?

Edited December 4 by N1SB

[Xenith]

I think this is pretty cool actually, though really could have done with the strat to make things into psychic weapons, and loses double doombolt. 

 

Daemon prince with Empyric Onslaught for +3 Attacks on his melee weapons for Strike9 and Sweep 17 is nice, or D6+3 Astral Blast. Loss of 1D on invocation is a pain, but we can get reroll to wound instead.

 

Overall not as strong as cult of magic, but can be fun. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

I suppose this detachment also disincentivizes using magnus and ahriman as they already have the +1 to wound. Which could be seen as a good thing, in a way. Competitively speaking I am not saying it means it would be better than the cult of magic, but rather, for those that are sick of seeing the same 2 characters in T.sons lists there is another route to try. 

Flood this detachment with exalted, rubrics, SOT,  and infernal masters I suppose. 

I disagree with this helping encourage lists without Magnus and Ahriman. The latter gives another free Doombolt, and Magnus is still super efficient for Cabal points, and he affects all wound rolls rather than just ones from psychic attacks. 

 

As I stated in the N&R thread, GW is under the impression that TSons have more Psychic attacks than they really do. 

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

 

 

 

I agree with you guys, but now that Brother Ahzek mentioned it, I think there might be a lane for a situation like in a Crusade to use this.  What do you think?

Not really. You're still taking a bunch of generic characters in the Index detachment anyway. 

[Indy Techwisp]

This feels like the "TSons from Space Marine 2" detachment to me.
You've got Warping for Rubrics, mutation of terrain (the fluff for the detachment rule) and a little bit of blackstone shenanigans.

 

Cult of Magic is still definitely stronger, but this does feel like a detachment I'd use from time to time.

[HeadlessCross]

51 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

This feels like the "TSons from Space Marine 2" detachment to me.
You've got Warping for Rubrics, mutation of terrain (the fluff for the detachment rule) and a little bit of blackstone shenanigans.

 

Cult of Magic is still definitely stronger, but this does feel like a detachment I'd use from time to time.

But you'd use it for what?

[Ahzek451]

5 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I disagree with this helping encourage lists without Magnus and Ahriman. The latter gives another free Doombolt, and Magnus is still super efficient for Cabal points, and he affects all wound rolls rather than just ones from psychic attacks. 

 

As I stated in the N&R thread, GW is under the impression that TSons have more Psychic attacks than they really do. 

Not really. You're still taking a bunch of generic characters in the Index detachment anyway. 

Both are large point sinks in a detachment that would prefer to have more sorcerers on the board to work on getting those objectives to expand the magic and getting the most out of the detachment rules. As you said, GW is under an odd impression that we have more powers flying around than we actually do. If one were to run Magnus and Ahriman, just stick with the cult of magic. But if one were to try to this detachment that is arguably less appealing to CoM, then I'd say its time to think outside the Magnus/Ahriman box and try something new.

I really do not like the detachment system. For T.sons, GW spent this long into 10th edition to "fine-tune" our points but its based on the cult of magic detachment. Take the same units in another one like the new we just got and they may be too expensive. I know other armies are seeing this. Cult legions drop toward the end of the edition life cycle, hardly any time spent fine-tuning and its already time for another reset into the next edition. I amend my first stance, I really dislike GW's ancient codex/edition release practices. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

@Ahzek451 I too dislike the Detachment system. Always have. I miss army building to the FoC. The 3 year cycle is also terrible and absurd and even Tzeentch would be saying "now come on GW".

 

This is an okay detachment. TS don't really have a lot of units to play with. At least they didn't do a Tzaangor one. 

[HeadlessCross]

42 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

Both are large point sinks in a detachment that would prefer to have more sorcerers on the board to work on getting those objectives to expand the magic and getting the most out of the detachment rules. As you said, GW is under an odd impression that we have more powers flying around than we actually do. If one were to run Magnus and Ahriman, just stick with the cult of magic. But if one were to try to this detachment that is arguably less appealing to CoM, then I'd say its time to think outside the Magnus/Ahriman box and try something new.

I really do not like the detachment system. For T.sons, GW spent this long into 10th edition to "fine-tune" our points but its based on the cult of magic detachment. Take the same units in another one like the new we just got and they may be too expensive. I know other armies are seeing this. Cult legions drop toward the end of the edition life cycle, hardly any time spent fine-tuning and its already time for another reset into the next edition. I amend my first stance, I really dislike GW's ancient codex/edition release practices. 

Magnus is only slightly less effective here, and Ahriman is hardly a point sink when he's one of the most readily available Rubric enhancers (especially as a way to get deep strike Rubrics in this detachment a +1 to wound with those Flamers). The free Doombolt is just icing on the cake at that point. 

In the end, even generic characters are priced like they're being used with Index detachment, all in the while this one does basically the same thing in terms of detachment rule iitself. Without special characters you're still better off going Index.

 

Also the problem with the detachment system is GW's paid rules. If GW cuts rules prices in half or make them free, there would be little issue. 

18 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

@Ahzek451 I too dislike the Detachment system. Always have. I miss army building to the FoC. The 3 year cycle is also terrible and absurd and even Tzeentch would be saying "now come on GW".

 

This is an okay detachment. TS don't really have a lot of units to play with. At least they didn't do a Tzaangor one. 

The FOC did nothing to balance the game. It was merely a hinderence to creative army building vs everyone's core looking exactly the same. 

[Ulfast]

I agree with most uf you that this detachment seems ok but nothing groundbreaking. I so hope they do more intersting when our codex comes out.

 

Two things as Ahzek452 points out. first we really don´t have so much psycic attacks. Only characters so that one thing. The other one is also about the points. In this new detachment, we really need lower points to make it more shine, otherwise CoM is just better and can work while I see this will not work. But hopefull I´m wrong and someone now goes out and win a major tournament with this ;)

[Indy Techwisp]

On 12/4/2024 at 9:18 PM, HeadlessCross said:

But you'd use it for what?

Something new to use to fill the gap between now and 2 weeks before 11th edition when our Codex releases.

[Ahzek451]

Something I have been thinking about. I'm paraphrasing but I believe GW said these detachments are basically designed to be incorporated in future codex releases. And a few people have made comments that this detachment would make better sense in a Tzeentch daemon army. so.....

I have little faith GW plans this well in advance, and I don't mean having the idea, I mean the execution. But if the daemon rumor is true and Tzeentch daemons are going to be rolled up with T.sons in the same book, I think this detachment might make more sense if that came to fruition. But that would also depend on keywords.....

Anywho, just a musing. 

[Indy Techwisp]

3 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Something I have been thinking about. I'm paraphrasing but I believe GW said these detachments are basically designed to be incorporated in future codex releases. And a few people have made comments that this detachment would make better sense in a Tzeentch daemon army. so.....

I have little faith GW plans this well in advance, and I don't mean having the idea, I mean the execution. But if the daemon rumor is true and Tzeentch daemons are going to be rolled up with T.sons in the same book, I think this detachment might make more sense if that came to fruition. But that would also depend on keywords.....

Anywho, just a musing. 

I mean.

All the Tzeentch Daemon shooting weapons are Psychic, right?

And Daemons are getting their 4 Monogod Detachments in the Grotsmas calendar rather than a Belakor multiman melee Detachment or whatever.

 

I think the idea that this is a Detachment made with Tzeentch Daemons in mind holds merit.

[Ulfast]

You are totally right, if this would be for Tzeentch daemons, it would be an awsome detachemnt and would be very intersting to try out. Shall be intersting to see if the rumour will be try that Tzeentch daemons will be part of Thousand sons.