Agreement with Amazon for films and television series

[TheMawr]

When gotten into it the charm of 40k to me personally was that it was not a HFY setting ( or at least, not in the usual way.) I need to go through all my white dwarves sometime but the point back then was made that humans were near the bottom of the galactic foodchain, much closer to gretchin than orks (tau wasnt a thing yet to be lower even.) and for humanity to survive high stake gambles with lots of sacrifices  are made : Space marines. And even these engineered almost inhuman super soldiers struggle to tip the scales against enemies for whom these high powerlevels come more natural.

 

I dont know if it was somewhere else or in the same WD article, but there was the suggestion then that the guardsmen (and thus cultists too) dont represent single guardsmen on the tabletop. A unit of 10 might represent 100 soldiers ( just hypothetically, not to get dragged into the numbers.)

 

So I dont see the battlescene as the superiority of spacemarines, but the inferiority of humans.. wich is for me a core element of the setting, the only ones I felt there should be a little more fight was the tzaangors ( though Im sure this was fanservice to all the hate the poor birds get.)

 

I had first seen just the battlescene, and admittedly found it a little bit cringe without context, but for me the context completed that this fell easily within my headcanon of the 40k setting. this is ofcourse based on a headcanon, and might not at all be the idea they intended, instead going for a SMFY effect. Its also likely not where GWs head is at anymore anyway ( who very often lean into a more standard HFY approach nowadays.) but still, enough nuance for both views.

 

 

 

 

 

[Marshal Mittens]

I really liked it.

 

For me their fight against the Heretics was amazing and it instantly made me think back to the part in Horus Rusing when the Rembrancers sneak down to watch the Astartes fight the rebels at Samus's prison, and they are just blown away and humbled by how insanely destructive Astartes are in combat. 

 

They do an amazing job of setting up just how strong these warriors are, and when they finally meet something dangerous to them, it's not another warrior or huge deamon, rather it's what I think was supposed to be the changeling, and it bodies most of the team pretty easily, which shows just how scary deamons and the warp are, even when facing what we have just been shown to be great warriors. 

 

I loved it. 

[ThePenitentOne]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

He killed the dude looking out and attached an explosive, likely a melta mine after dropping the grenade inside.

 

also episode wasn’t made to swell SM2. It was created to sell 40K in its entirety to new people.

 

but the tabletop also doesn’t reflect the lore in the game books…so which one takes precedent in this system of yours?

Well I use the game to express lore on the tabletop- I don't play competitive pick-up games.

 

I'm the guy who starts a Crusade with 500 points of Purestrainss and grows a cult from that. I've got a Drukhari army, but I'm not adding my Razorwing until the Ascendant Lord captures a docks territory to ally with the Corsairs, who will be the part of the Drukhari force that owns said razorwing.

 

The only time the game doesn't reflect the lore is when you, and/or your chosen opponent choose to play it in a manner that is inconsistent with the lore. Every now and then if someone just wants a regular old match, I might be talked into it, but generally, I play to create my own BL stories which are consistent with both "Lore" and the game. It means not playing an optimized force quite frequently, playing pieces of a large roster a few units at a time so that the various battlegroups within the army bond with each other in small games before coming together for large ones.

 

Granted, a lot of that is aspirational at the moment- I'm a dinosaur slow painter, which is one of the reasons why I prefer the small game. I've only played a handful of games across 9th. But I did the same thing from 2nd to 5th, even though formal progression systems were vague. Planetfall and Cityfight were my jam, and I loved Apocalypse- often building 40k armies as single Apocalypse formations and then bringing them together with Apocalypse games. THAT was asymmetrical and swingy, because those were all specialist formations. The 8th and (especially) 9th detachment system was more balanced (again, provided the players choose to play that way).

 

Urban Conquest from 8th was decent, especially when you combine it with Crusade and run a parallel Spec Ops campaign. With minor tweaks, it still works with 10th, and right now, the only KTs without spec-ops content are Aquilons, Vespid, Rattling and Tankbustas, but Spec ops also needs tweaks to work with KT 24. Sorry for the tangent- I know I've veered a bit off topic.

[Xanthous]

I definitely did a little bit of eye-rolling at the depiction of the marines in the short, particularly at Titus smashing a vehicle into pieces just by running through it. My greater problem with the short is that I'm definitely getting a little tired of the most special space marine in the galaxy, arbitrarily resisting chaos again and again. I get that they weren't going to resolve that plot point here, but it just doesn't make for interesting conflicts to have Titus be basically unbeatable for no good reason.

[DukeLeto69]

I think the fiction developed around W40k (both BL books and computer games) has lost touch with the rarity of Space Marines. They ARE super human but they are rare and finite in number (oh and a tonne of Primaris on ice also undermined this key element in the lore).

 

The accepted story was there were a 1000 chapters of a 1000 marines in an Imperium of a million worlds. So one marine per planet. Some BL authors played with this rarity in that the vast majority of baseline humans have never, and will never see a marine. Some even think they are a myth.

 

The BL focus on Space Marine stories and then the advent of the Horus Heresy has normalised (for us in real life) Space Marines, making them seem to be everywhere all the time.

 

I think that is a shame.

[4b4dd0n]

This 1000%. In the old lore as a human soldier you where lucky to fight side by side one time with a space marine in your whole life. And the oldest generals had maybe this one time where they work together with a chapter master. 

I think it makes sense that the first wave of the great crusade the legiones are. And the 2nd 3rd etc. wave the normal human soldiers are. But after 10k years, splitting in small chapters and constant conflicts the space marines should be rare. Also the lose of technology should also play into this, since the great crusade. But with the new primaris this isn't a think anymore. And they will bring back every primarch which they can...

 

I hope we get some more stuff besides Space Marines stories. I think it will get pretty boring very fast if we get only bolter porn stories. 

You can tell much more interesting stories if you change the pov. A inquisitor which hunts down a daemon in a horror like way. A alien like story with an liktor which arrives on a planet before the hive fleet and normal people have to fight that thing without any space marine support.

Day to day story about the arbites in a hive city which they fight criminals and slowly uncover a genestealer cult. The list goes on and on.

 

I think the more smaller stories are better and more interesting then the big sector wide stories which repeat some elements over and over again.

And you can bring in new audience more easier to the universe with smaller stories because you don't have to explain everything in detail.

Like this is problem X these are the people which work/life here and have to deal with it. They don't know anything such as the audience and then step by step the audience uncovers slowly with the cast the mystery of problem X.  And after the show/film the audience knew something more and you can go to the next show. And after some time you can bring in the big stories and you don't overwhelm the people with explanation after explanation. Like the marvel universe in the beginning. 

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, 4b4dd0n said:

This 1000%. In the old lore as a human soldier you where lucky to fight side by side one time with a space marine in your whole life. And the oldest generals had maybe this one time where they work together with a chapter master. 

I think it makes sense that the first wave of the great crusade the legiones are. And the 2nd 3rd etc. wave the normal human soldiers are. But after 10k years, splitting in small chapters and constant conflicts the space marines should be rare. Also the lose of technology should also play into this, since the great crusade. But with the new primaris this isn't a think anymore. And they will bring back every primarch which they can...

 

I hope we get some more stuff besides Space Marines stories. I think it will get pretty boring very fast if we get only bolter porn stories. 

You can tell much more interesting stories if you change the pov. A inquisitor which hunts down a daemon in a horror like way. A alien like story with an liktor which arrives on a planet before the hive fleet and normal people have to fight that thing without any space marine support.

Day to day story about the arbites in a hive city which they fight criminals and slowly uncover a genestealer cult. The list goes on and on.

 

I think the more smaller stories are better and more interesting then the big sector wide stories which repeat some elements over and over again.

And you can bring in new audience more easier to the universe with smaller stories because you don't have to explain everything in detail.

Like this is problem X these are the people which work/life here and have to deal with it. They don't know anything such as the audience and then step by step the audience uncovers slowly with the cast the mystery of problem X.  And after the show/film the audience knew something more and you can go to the next show. And after some time you can bring in the big stories and you don't overwhelm the people with explanation after explanation. Like the marvel universe in the beginning. 

Oh we'll definitely get guard stories, and SoB stuff to boot, and I'd be surprised if we didn't get an Eisenhorn adaption.

 

Still holding out for a Gaunt's Ghost series.

 

However, they'll all be bankrolled by Space Marine stuff because business is going to business.

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

I'd like to know how much input Pedersen had on this. Judging by how the non-Pedersen marine vids are like I'd say he did some of the animations, maybe, but the direction was probably not his given how ridiculous some of the actions were.

-spinning the double-bladed axe around

-a vehicle hits a marine at full speed, he doesn't even flinch just punches it and it explodes

-everybody is stomping and strutting around, the overall effect being to ask the viewer: isn't this SO AWESOME OMG

These stood out for me as just annoying. Some guy who doesn't know anything apart from LARP probably thought it was very cool, unfortunately.

 

I miss ASTARTES. I wish he'd finish his V45. I back you on Patreon Pedersen, finish your Viking Mecha lmao! It's way cooler than this.

[DukeLeto69]

1 hour ago, ZeroWolf said:

Oh we'll definitely get guard stories, and SoB stuff to boot, and I'd be surprised if we didn't get an Eisenhorn adaption.

 

Still holding out for a Gaunt's Ghost series.

 

However, they'll all be bankrolled by Space Marine stuff because business is going to business.

I would be VERY surprised if we don’t get Gaunt’s Ghosts Band of Brothers style.

 

But not in the beginning. Personally I think GG and Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin are both good entry points for newbies.

 

But I expect something very heavily Space Marine led as they are the W40k poster boys.

[phandaal]

15 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

But not in the beginning. Personally I think GG and Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin are both good entry points for newbies.

 

As much as I enjoy the Inquisition novels, they are not good entry points for Warhammer 40k. They are great at expanding the universe once you are already familiar with the idea of giant battles with all kinds of alien factions though. It shows what is happening in parts of the galaxy off of the battlefield.

 

The entry point is going to be - Space Marines. Because [cash register sounds intensify]. It is what people want to buy, and it is the thing most people think of if they have barely any knowledge of 40k.

[Ammonius]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

I would be VERY surprised if we don’t get Gaunt’s Ghosts Band of Brothers style.

Ohhh man. Permit me to wishlist a moment.

You say Band of Brothers and I think:

YES, I want a 10 hour+ miniseries of 40k.

YES, I want a Blood Axe centric "Band of Bruvvers".

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, Ammonius said:

Ohhh man. Permit me to wishlist a moment.

You say Band of Brothers and I think:

YES, I want a 10 hour+ miniseries of 40k.

YES, I want a Blood Axe centric "Band of Bruvvers".

I'd watch that!

 

2 hours ago, EmprahsStrongestGuardsman said:

I'd like to know how much input Pedersen had on this. Judging by how the non-Pedersen marine vids are like I'd say he did some of the animations, maybe, but the direction was probably not his given how ridiculous some of the actions were.

-spinning the double-bladed axe around

-a vehicle hits a marine at full speed, he doesn't even flinch just punches it and it explodes

-everybody is stomping and strutting around, the overall effect being to ask the viewer: isn't this SO AWESOME OMG

These stood out for me as just annoying. Some guy who doesn't know anything apart from LARP probably thought it was very cool, unfortunately.

 

I miss ASTARTES. I wish he'd finish his V45. I back you on Patreon Pedersen, finish your Viking Mecha lmao! It's way cooler than this.

Considering this was approved by GW themselves, I'd say it's clear that this is how GW want people to see Space Marines...off the tabletop at least. I'd also argue it is consistent with the lore, at least as far as dealing with cultists.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

19 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

Well I use the game to express lore on the tabletop- I don't play competitive pick-up games.

 

I'm the guy who starts a Crusade with 500 points of Purestrainss and grows a cult from that. I've got a Drukhari army, but I'm not adding my Razorwing until the Ascendant Lord captures a docks territory to ally with the Corsairs, who will be the part of the Drukhari force that owns said razorwing.

 

The only time the game doesn't reflect the lore is when you, and/or your chosen opponent choose to play it in a manner that is inconsistent with the lore. Every now and then if someone just wants a regular old match, I might be talked into it, but generally, I play to create my own BL stories which are consistent with both "Lore" and the game. It means not playing an optimized force quite frequently, playing pieces of a large roster a few units at a time so that the various battlegroups within the army bond with each other in small games before coming together for large ones.

 

Granted, a lot of that is aspirational at the moment- I'm a dinosaur slow painter, which is one of the reasons why I prefer the small game. I've only played a handful of games across 9th. But I did the same thing from 2nd to 5th, even though formal progression systems were vague. Planetfall and Cityfight were my jam, and I loved Apocalypse- often building 40k armies as single Apocalypse formations and then bringing them together with Apocalypse games. THAT was asymmetrical and swingy, because those were all specialist formations. The 8th and (especially) 9th detachment system was more balanced (again, provided the players choose to play that way).

 

Urban Conquest from 8th was decent, especially when you combine it with Crusade and run a parallel Spec Ops campaign. With minor tweaks, it still works with 10th, and right now, the only KTs without spec-ops content are Aquilons, Vespid, Rattling and Tankbustas, but Spec ops also needs tweaks to work with KT 24. Sorry for the tangent- I know I've veered a bit off topic.

I don’t play competitively either, but the game does not remotely represent the lore.

not even remotely.

expecting novels and tv shows to depict marines in manner accurate to the tabletop is silly, as the game is meant to be balanced and the lore isn’t. 

[grailkeeper]

14 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I don’t play competitively either, but the game does not remotely represent the lore.

not even remotely.

expecting novels and tv shows to depict marines in manner accurate to the tabletop is silly, as the game is meant to be balanced and the lore isn’t. 

Space marine armour not working 1 in 3 times would be... a choice.

[Norman Paperman]

The short was fun and I want MORE. Our boys in blue were unstoppable until something even greater came along. Really shows off the power discrepancies! I'm very much wondering if the Tzeentch cultists might be a preview of new models. TS have sorcerer and cultist data sheets, but no kits for them. Loved those designs. 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Norman Paperman said:

The short was fun and I want MORE. Our boys in blue were unstoppable until something even greater came along. Really shows off the power discrepancies! I'm very much wondering if the Tzeentch cultists might be a preview of new models. TS have sorcerer and cultist data sheets, but no kits for them. Loved those designs. 

 

Besides "rule of cool," that is another good reason to show Marines plowing through baseline soldiers. Establish the power disparity and then when the daemon does what it does, we understand just how much of a threat the daemon is.

 

Astartes did this as well. Those Marines also plowed through their human opponents without breaking a sweat, up to and including one of the Marines tanking a laser machinegun to his torso with no more than some hot patches on his armor. Then when the Marines reach the techno-sorcerers, we can see just how strong that pair really is.

[ZeroWolf]

36 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Besides "rule of cool," that is another good reason to show Marines plowing through baseline soldiers. Establish the power disparity and then when the daemon does what it does, we understand just how much of a threat the daemon is.

 

Astartes did this as well. Those Marines also plowed through their human opponents without breaking a sweat, up to and including one of the Marines tanking a laser machinegun to his torso with no more than some hot patches on his armor. Then when the Marines reach the techno-sorcerers, we can see just how strong that pair really is.

This is it exactly, it also helps sell the idea that baseline humans are the utmost bottom rung on the galactic ladder.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Norman Paperman said:

The short was fun and I want MORE. Our boys in blue were unstoppable until something even greater came along. Really shows off the power discrepancies! I'm very much wondering if the Tzeentch cultists might be a preview of new models. TS have sorcerer and cultist data sheets, but no kits for them. Loved those designs. 

I would not expect anything from the video games or based on the video games to be a preview of things to come in game.

 

iirc you can take a plasma weapon while wearing gravis armor in SM2 for example.(don’t have the game, and don’t plan to fund a Russian developer)

14 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Space marine armour not working 1 in 3 times would be... a choice.

Right? If lore was accurate to table top, the tzaangors would have ended the episode 

Edited Friday at 03:36 PM by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TheMawr]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I would not expect anything from the video games or based on the video games to be a preview of things to come in game.

 

This I constantly said when everybody was sure that the jumppack design would be indicative of the primaris jumppacks. And then it suddenly was.
Though I do agree with you, and the jumppack was probably a freak incident

 

Maybe if I say enough times that the daemon is just creative license and isnt based on an upcoming miniature I will be proven wrong again, let me think whats better a consistent denial every 24 hours or more randomly spread out

[ZeroWolf]

20 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

 

This I constantly said when everybody was sure that the jumppack design would be indicative of the primaris jumppacks. And then it suddenly was.
Though I do agree with you, and the jumppack was probably a freak incident

 

Maybe if I say enough times that the daemon is just creative license and isnt based on an upcoming miniature I will be proven wrong again, let me think whats better a consistent denial every 24 hours or more randomly spread out

I always thought more that GW shared the jump pack design with the developers as I reckon they were another kit that had been done for a while and waiting for a release window, like the desolators. So the Devs got a first peek at it kind of thing rather than GW looking at it and going "we'll nab that"

[DemonGSides]

Yeah it's pretty obvious that the JPAI have been sitting around for a while.  I'm sure Saber just got a heads up preview of them.

Though that does bring into question; lack of impulsors and amount of rhinos that were present.  Maybe they do know more than we do!