Final Balance update of 2024

[Jscarlos18]

Nice to see the Norn Assimilator join the Harvesters, expanding the roster for that subtype. The detachment rule also got a bit of a buff. Not sure how good or bad the modifications to the Trygon are since I don't have him yet.

[AutumnEffect]

3 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

You are indeed. I almost always take a squad of Intercessors just for ObjSec but I can see myself bumping that up to 2 squads. Especially since it does not seem to have been accompanied by a points increase. The sad thing is that it makes Sternguard even harder to justify, even with their buff when shooting at OOM targets.

 

It's kind of odd just how strong of a buff it is. It makes the Intercessor Bolt Rifle a better Storm Bolter. I'm curious why they felt there was a need for it.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, AutumnEffect said:

It's kind of odd just how strong of a buff it is. It makes the Intercessor Bolt Rifle a better Storm Bolter. I'm curious why they felt there was a need for it.

 

Intercessors are the Space Marine of modern 40k, so having LSM players only fielding 1-2 Squads max as Backline Point Holders doesn't fit with the vibe they want the unit to have, so they give it a strong buff and no points bump in the hopes LSM players start using more of them.

[Orange Knight]

3 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

It's kind of odd just how strong of a buff it is. It makes the Intercessor Bolt Rifle a better Storm Bolter. I'm curious why they felt there was a need for it.

 

Probably because the unit wasn't being taken at all. There are units that can hold objectives that have more utility, or much cheaper units that can do their job.

 

This new ability is compelling, and it certainly makes Intercessors quite scary to most other infantry options that armies are taking. Basically their firepower has doubled. A squad of 10 is now firing 40 shots at a decent range, and with Oath being better, could actually punch above their weight class.

Edited December 11 by Orange Knight

[Iron Father Ferrum]

25 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Believe me, if it was up to me everything would still be printed.

 

There is another way to get around this. Much cheaper, printed booklets that only have datasheets and rules in them. These are released annually at a low cost.

 

You can still have a traditional codex book, but that should be a lore tome filled with inspiring art and model photos.

 

Inasmuch as I want to agree with you, Privateer tried this in War Machine 3rd Edition -- all model stats in the app, the books being lore & pictures only.  They didn't sell well, and all that money that went into writing, art, layout, printing, and distribution was wasted.  I'm not saying that's what toppled PP in the day, but I'm certain it didn't help.

 

Frankly, I like physical media.  It's nice to own something you can hold.

[AutumnEffect]

20 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Intercessors are the Space Marine of modern 40k, so having LSM players only fielding 1-2 Squads max as Backline Point Holders doesn't fit with the vibe they want the unit to have, so they give it a strong buff and no points bump in the hopes LSM players start using more of them.

 

20 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Probably because the unit wasn't being taken at all. There are units that can hold objectives that have more utility, or much cheaper units that can do their job.

 

I agree in principle, I'm just surprised this was the route chosen. It feels like a shadow-nerf to so many other things. Sternguard have already been mentioned, but I'm also now wondering how this compares to Infernus marines even with their shiny new -1 AP. It also makes Terminator squads shooting look positively anemic.

 

It's just such a big jump up in the 'floor' all other LSM ranged units are going to be compared to. 

Edited December 11 by AutumnEffect

[Anon]

The app got updated and the orks got a new breaka boys datasheet and the tankbustas one got updated.  Didn't see an anouncement.

[Dark Shepherd]

2 hours ago, redmapa said:

Outriders have definitely become at least viable, +1S/D on the charge is pretty tasty and if you're vanilla marines the +1 to wound will shore up their other weakness. Pretty good imo, maybe not a competitive unit but now they are not an absolute waste of points and definitely have a use.

Add a Chaplin on bike and he gets buffed up and the otriders get plus one to wound. Only 155 points for 3 plus 1

[Indy Techwisp]

21 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

 

I agree in principle, I'm just surprised this was the route chosen. It feels like a shadow-nerf to so many other things. Sternguard have already been mentioned, but I'm also now wondering how this compares to Infernus marines even with their shiny new -1 AP. It also makes Terminator squads shooting look positively anemic.

 

It's just such a big jump up in the 'floor' all other LSM ranged units are going to be compared to. 

 

So Sternguard (that aren't in a Supplement army) now have the Full Hit Reroll, the +1 to Wound and the Full Wound Reroll if they're shooting the Oath of Moment target.

IMO they've been reclassed as a Scalpel piece while the standard Intercessors have been promoted from Objective Holders to actual Frontline units.

[Crimson Longinus]

23 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

 

I agree in principle, I'm just surprised this was the route chosen. It feels like a shadow-nerf to so many other things. Sternguard have already been mentioned, but I'm also now wondering how this compares to Infernus marines even with their shiny new -1 AP. It also makes Terminator squads shooting look positively anemic.

 

It's just such a big jump up in the 'floor' all other LSM ranged units are going to be compared to. 

 

Yeah, almost doubling the firepower is a lot! Whilst I like Intercessors, I'm worried for internal balance.

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, redmapa said:

Outriders have definitely become at least viable, +1S/D on the charge is pretty tasty and if you're vanilla marines the +1 to wound will shore up their other weakness. Pretty good imo, maybe not a competitive unit but now they are not an absolute waste of points and definitely have a use.

 

I can't find this update? I could well be blind. Is it listed under a different rule somewhere?

[Orange Knight]

40 minutes ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

 

I agree in principle, I'm just surprised this was the route chosen. It feels like a shadow-nerf to so many other things. Sternguard have already been mentioned, but I'm also now wondering how this compares to Infernus marines even with their shiny new -1 AP. It also makes Terminator squads shooting look positively anemic.

 

It's just such a big jump up in the 'floor' all other LSM ranged units are going to be compared to. 

 

I missed this comment.

 

Yes, I completely agree. I have made a topic on Terminators and how the unit is completely outclassed by other options in the codex. It tries to do a few things and doesn't do any of them well, and I was very disappointed that the refresh was so faithful to the old kit when it comes to the wargear. The models look incredible, but every model in the unit should be equipped with a Missile Launcher or Assault Cannon as standard, at a minimum.

 

I'm really not fussed on a bunch of power fist attacks when a Hellblaster squad basically has the same strength and damage profile at range. 

 

The only other solution would be to vastly increase their profile and stats, and put them in the same toughness and strength category as the Centurions. But again, because this is a re-occuring unit across multiple factions, any such upgrade will have a far reaching effect that may or may not lead to other problems. Primaris fixed this, but the same old problems have resurfaced with the classic units that were updated too faithfully.

[irlLordy]

49 minutes ago, Anon said:

The app got updated and the orks got a new breaka boys datasheet and the tankbustas one got updated.  Didn't see an anouncement.

 

Ratlings got updated as well, their big gun got a profile, battle mutt is a lethal hits token, demo gives grenades keyword, and everyone else are normal dudes. Its now 5 - 10, and like vespids, you need to take 10 to get access to the fun stuff.

[DemonGSides]

Just now, irlLordy said:

 

Ratlings got updated as well, their big gun got a profile, battle mutt is a lethal hits token, demo gives grenades keyword, and everyone else are normal dudes. Its now 5 - 10, and like vespids, you need to take 10 to get access to the fun stuff.

 

5 man kept the way it was for old school models, new 10 man for the new age models. A great compromise, just like the vespids.

[Indy Techwisp]

50 minutes ago, Anon said:

The app got updated and the orks got a new breaka boys datasheet and the tankbustas one got updated.  Didn't see an anouncement.

 

No announcement yet afaics, but these are the Brutal & Cunning Killteam datasheets.

Updated Ratlings and Tankabustas plus new Breaka Boys

[Dr. Clock]

My Storm Lords are soooooooo happy with all this. Reivers and Outriders both feel possibly good finally, and Korsarro is still cheap, but now helps the bikes even if he doesn't ride one.

 

But honestly the OOM change feels the most impactful overall... you end up needing fewer dedicated higher-end shooting profiles because you'll know you can probably punch up with lower S stuff at least once a turn.

 

Honestly, this is also gonna make my Salamanders even more insanely shooty than they were... S:10 melta Devs with +1 to wound, re-rolling hits and wounds (OOM + razorback or Vulkan) is a vibe for sure. And I won't say no to Infernus AP buff. Vulkan's OC buff on Infernus is fine, but basically unnecessary - and nice to see Lysander et al getting cool buffs for free in exchange for not being BA or DA lol.

 

In other news - I'm not sure that they needed to go way down to 6" for Bringers of Flame buff though. 9" would have been fine.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

7 hours ago, redmapa said:

Outriders have definitely become at least viable, +1S/D on the charge is pretty tasty and if you're vanilla marines the +1 to wound will shore up their other weakness. Pretty good imo, maybe not a competitive unit but now they are not an absolute waste of points and definitely have a use.

It makes them more appealing, but their bases and being Bikers makes them too unwieldy and easily blocked. 

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

 

I agree in principle, I'm just surprised this was the route chosen. It feels like a shadow-nerf to so many other things. Sternguard have already been mentioned, but I'm also now wondering how this compares to Infernus marines even with their shiny new -1 AP. It also makes Terminator squads shooting look positively anemic.

 

It's just such a big jump up in the 'floor' all other LSM ranged units are going to be compared to. 

Terminator shooting has ALWAYS been anemic. That's why the Deathwatch route is the way to go. 

[StrangerOrders]

Can someone better at math than me tell me how scary a 10 man Intercessor squad led by a Libi with that Fussilade Enhancement from that Conclave detachment be?

 

I feel like it could be hilariously lethal but I'm not sure.

[Plaguecaster]

The nerf to armour of contempt and other ones similar to it is quite nice 

No longer can your opponent just pop it and benefit from it all phase but now only get it from one unit that attacks them 

Means you now  have to pick when it's going to matter the most 

[Karhedron]

Conversley, vehicles with the Smoke keyword are going to be more valuable as that still lasts the whole phase.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The AOC nerf was much needed, I think.  Any unit with AP-1 weapons were basically paying points for a stat they hardly ever got to use, and even AP-2 got hurt. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

10 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

But you can take UM special characters and still receive the buff.

 

Make Ultramar Great Again!

Business savvy individuals would print an acronym of that slogan on a smurf hat.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

8 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I missed this comment.

 

Yes, I completely agree. I have made a topic on Terminators and how the unit is completely outclassed by other options in the codex. It tries to do a few things and doesn't do any of them well, and I was very disappointed that the refresh was so faithful to the old kit when it comes to the wargear. The models look incredible, but every model in the unit should be equipped with a Missile Launcher or Assault Cannon as standard, at a minimum.

 

I'm really not fussed on a bunch of power fist attacks when a Hellblaster squad basically has the same strength and damage profile at range. 

 

The only other solution would be to vastly increase their profile and stats, and put them in the same toughness and strength category as the Centurions. But again, because this is a re-occuring unit across multiple factions, any such upgrade will have a far reaching effect that may or may not lead to other problems. Primaris fixed this, but the same old problems have resurfaced with the classic units that were updated too faithfully.

Every Terminator should have a heavy weapon?! Their iconic loadout will never be changed. Better to choose another unit to fulfil your needs.

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Every Terminator should have a heavy weapon?! Their iconic loadout will never be changed. Better to choose another unit to fulfil your needs.

Devastator Terminators when GW? YOU COWARDS!