Emperor Ming Posted December 11, 2024 Share Posted December 11, 2024 and here I thought that was the name of a book series More than a 100% nerf to miracle dice, then yet more points hikes Elvatuar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvatuar Posted December 31, 2024 Share Posted December 31, 2024 Has anyone yet played using the new dataslate? How bad is the drop in miracle dice in practice? How does this affect various detachments, say, Army of Faith? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6084021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKirkham24 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 The nerf to miracle dice is enormous, and that was one of the main mechanics that allowed us to punch up with melta being our strongest weapon. As usual with GW, double dip on the nerf bat with points and the hammer to miracle dice. I think we’ll plummet in win rate til the next slate and they’ll reverse the miracle dice change. I’ve switched to Deathwatch for now with index coming back. Emperor Ming and W.A.Rorie 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6086891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 17 hours ago, NKirkham24 said: I’ve switched to Deathwatch for now with index coming back. Same ive switched to eldar, not touching sisters atm W.A.Rorie 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6087020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.A.Rorie Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Mine have been shelved for a while...... Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6087035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I'll get a chance to see how bad the miracle dice nerf is this weekend at the Las Vegas Open. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6087307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Techwisp Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 23 hours ago, Sume said: I'll get a chance to see how bad the miracle dice nerf is this weekend at the Las Vegas Open. We won't get a chance to see it if no-one runs Sisters at the event, which paradoxically would mean GW wouldn't get any results telling them the change is too much... W.A.Rorie 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6087482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I think I am one of the few Sister players for the narrative event. I was going to switch to Imperial Agents but decided to stay on track with sisters. W.A.Rorie 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6087584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I think for the doubles narrative there was 4 Sisters players. I was the only one that brought a more traditional list. One was heavy tanks, with warglaives, one had a bunch of sacrants and the last one was a pentient host. I am not sure how all they faired. I found 1 w t3 models pretty lack luster as 4 out of the 5 games was against walls of tanks and Knights/warglaives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6089421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Sisters at the bottom, im just looking at the latest community event metadata lower than imperial agents....... Sume 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6089527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Techwisp Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 22 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said: Sisters at the bottom, im just looking at the latest community event metadata lower than imperial agents....... Hopefully the presence of actual data showing the nerf to miracle dice was too much will make GW change that in the next balance dataslate. NKirkham24 and Sume 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6089540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said: Hopefully the presence of actual data showing the nerf to miracle dice was too much will make GW change that in the next balance dataslate. Its not just that thou, past three updates sisters have had points hikes to almost everything, every single time. its been crazy, and yet necrons have avoided almost anything, and there still on top, its a joke... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6089556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I know I ran into some of the other Sister players at the LVO narrative event. As opponents were asking about all the point hikes and nerfs. No one seemed to like the new miracle dice change, and how I guess game changing it was to take out all of the randomness. For an army that got the nerf bat before players even got the book was a shame. Sad that most sister units cost the same or slightly less than the Space Marine equivalent and the Marines function so much better. After the LVO me and my friend decided that we wanted to go to more narrative events but the Sisters are staying shelved. Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6089713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKirkham24 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 As suspected then. Disappointing though, they've just been far too heavy handed with the faction. I'm sure it'll revert back but frustrating they nerfed us so you LVO experience was that. Overall the meta is pretty decent with everyone near the goldilocks zone, but top to bottom is a massive swing Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6091880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I will say a month on from the nerf bat, I have put Sisters on the table in the last couple weeks and have had success. I have built skew lists just to goof off based around a few key assumptions. #1. Don't build around miracle dice, it isn't worth it and you won't get enough to matter. Spending points to improve or manage that resource is a waste of time. #2. Most of our units are too expensive and too fragile and our characters have too little impact to be worth the cost of adding them to units. #3. Hallowed Martyr has the best generic buffs and the most useful and affordable strats. In all my lists my biggest focus has been on spamming basic sisters squads, rhinos, and immolators as the core. 40-50 Sisters hitting the table with a lot of Rhino hulls for mobility. One to two characters max. I don't bother with Seraphim, Zephyrim, Sacresants, or Retributors....they all cost too much and dies to easy. I focus almost entirely around board control and performing actions for score. The lists can kill in aggregate, but individual units usually don't do much at all, just chip damage that adds up. Sisters are frail, but 40-50 3+ saves along with and 40-60 wounds worth of T9/10 vehicles takes time to chew through and most armies build units around taking down dangerous targets. Those units fail to make much impact when they can only kill a Rhino or 5 Sisters a turn. I have won the games I've played but even in winning, it doesn't feel very satisfying. It's hard not to ask your opponent 'you pay how much for that unit?' or 'your army rule lets you do what!?' and then feel upset at how bland or over-costed Sisters feel by comparison. Miracle dice feel...pointless. Granted some of that is that I didn't build my list to use or improve them...but I'm only using one per turn max, less if I'm only rolling duds. I love Sisters and I'm happy I have found ways to win with them in their current state and I did have fun making skew horde lists that surprised opponents. But I will say for every bit of fun I had, there was an equal measure of frustration or disappointment for how raw the faction is right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6096445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 Im expecting large points reductions and rules reversals in march update Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6096467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said: Im expecting large points reductions and rules reversals in march update I think a lot of the points will get walked back and hopefully the rule nerf to Bringers of Flame. I don't think they'll fully walk back the miracle dice because it's very apparent from the Eldar changes and these nerfs, GW has real heartburn around the dice substitution mechanic. I would bet money that in the next edition the mechanic will be gone entirely. The shame of this is the entire codex is built around using miracle dice....you can't just take them away without revisiting every unit that uses or generates miracle dice. So we have a dex built around a mechanic that GW clearly wants to phase out which probably means we will be in some amount of limbo until a new edition drops. Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6096477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Well, it looks like the balance update is in and we have a partial walk back of the miracle dice nerf, and a handful of units getting a welcome points cut. Now we at least get a miracle dice for every unit which dies so overall we are down by probably 1/3rd of our miracle dice rather than 2/3rds. Arcos, Repentia, Sacresants, Seraphim, Zypherim, and Dominions all taking a cut are welcome. The disappointments for me are Retributors and the Exorcist remaining inexcusably over-costed. I also think they should have taken back the nerf to Bringers of Flame range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6099545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 Yeah its not enough to interest me back unfortunately Sume 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6099561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 At least I think GW realized that they went too heavy handed on this faction. if miracle dice is still a issue. I think all the detachments need a redo. I would hate to see Sisters get a second codex this edition like Space Marines did in 8th. Current walk back on Miracle dice is going to prompt msu lists and funny will result in a Miracle dice nerf again. Some units getting a points drop is great. Still exorcists are slightly stronger random guard basilisks/whirlwinds that pay a price premium. Looking like this year I will be going to the narrative events for Dallas, and Atlanta. Sadly Tacoma was sold out. Along with the battle barge event. Sisters are staying shelved. I don't see a desire to play with them when Kreig is busted and make guard even better and Aeldari barely got hit and came out extremely strong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384798-the-end-and-the-death-new-dataslate/#findComment-6099653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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