Theory of Rogal Dorn's return.

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

If Dorn comes back, I'd like to see him as the IF overall CDR, but with a special rule "Last Wall: Dorn can command any IF successor chapter", or something like that.

[Indy Techwisp]

13 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

I think if he comes back - then with a golden armor and playable for IF AND BT AND CF

Do Crimson Fists still have their one character in the codex?

[TheNicronomicon]

4 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Do Crimson Fists still have their one character in the codex?

We’ll just add Pedro when we add Dorn. Easy-peasy!

[Indy Techwisp]

6 hours ago, SWORD BROTHER RYAN said:

If Dorn comes back, I'd like to see him as the IF overall CDR, but with a special rule "Last Wall: Dorn can command any IF successor chapter", or something like that.

 

I feel if Dorn comes back he's going to be pushed as a Black Templars character first and a Codex Chapter character second.

 

As such, I predict a rule somewhat like this:

Primarch of the Imperial Fists

If your army only contains Epic Heroes with the [Imperial Fists] chapter keyword, you may include this unit in your army as though it shared the Chapter Keyword.

[Tacitus]

Yes, Pedro is still around, Cortez is not AFAIK.  

 

I think if/when they bring him back the rules won't overtly favor Templars, but the fluff and model almost certainly will.  I think he won't have the same wargear.  None of the Loyalists so far have to prevent cross-over while the Daemon Primarchs occaisionally do keep one piece or two, but also have physical changes (wings, weapons and such).  So I would not expect Dorn to show up in the Auric Armor with a big Chain Sword.  I would expect to see him show up looking much more like a Gigantic super Emperor's Champion - probably a Black (Crusaders) armor with Red (CF) and Gold (IF) trim.  He will have a new bolter (Maybe something like the Shoulder Mount that Tor Garradon has) and a power sword.  He will also have some "piece" of the Emperor's panapoly - Guilliman has his sword, Lion has his shield, maybe Dorn gets a baroque Jump Pack with huge golden wings.

[TheNicronomicon]

19 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Yes, Pedro is still around, Cortez is not AFAIK.  

 

I think if/when they bring him back the rules won't overtly favor Templars, but the fluff and model almost certainly will.  I think he won't have the same wargear.  None of the Loyalists so far have to prevent cross-over while the Daemon Primarchs occaisionally do keep one piece or two, but also have physical changes (wings, weapons and such).  So I would not expect Dorn to show up in the Auric Armor with a big Chain Sword.  I would expect to see him show up looking much more like a Gigantic super Emperor's Champion - probably a Black (Crusaders) armor with Red (CF) and Gold (IF) trim.  He will have a new bolter (Maybe something like the Shoulder Mount that Tor Garradon has) and a power sword.  He will also have some "piece" of the Emperor's panapoly - Guilliman has his sword, Lion has his shield, maybe Dorn gets a baroque Jump Pack with huge golden wings.

Not to hijack the thread too much but what piece of the panoply do you think Russ will have? The Spear (though I think that counts as part of Russ's gear, not the Emperor's, right?)?

Though the idea of Rogal Dorn with a jump pack is pretty funny to me.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Not to hijack the thread too much but what piece of the panoply do you think Russ will have? The Spear (though I think that counts as part of Russ's gear, not the Emperor's, right?)?

Though the idea of Rogal Dorn with a jump pack is pretty funny to me.

Possibly his claw.  More likely something new that will be made up and "inserted" into history - potentially a cloak.

[ZeroWolf]

See, I was thinking Dorn would have the claw (with bionics inside) to replace his lost hand.

[TheArtilleryman]

11 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Not to hijack the thread too much but what piece of the panoply do you think Russ will have? The Spear (though I think that counts as part of Russ's gear, not the Emperor's, right?)?

After all the hassle Ragnar went through over that blimmin thing he’d better blimmin use the blimmin spear XD

 

Seriously though, the 30k model doesn’t have the spear, so I see no reason he can’t have it in 40k, if crossover is an issue.

Edited January 11 by TheArtilleryman

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

See, I was thinking Dorn would have the claw (with bionics inside) to replace his lost hand.

I was thinking Russ because of Bjorn. 

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

The claw would make more sense for Dorn due to the missing hand, and the fact that his own sword was broken and used to make the Sword of the High Marshal for the BT. I could see Russ as using the spear he used against Horus, or maybe something like the Emperors Bolt Gun with some special ability.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, SWORD BROTHER RYAN said:

The claw would make more sense for Dorn due to the missing hand, and the fact that his own sword was broken and used to make the Sword of the High Marshal for the BT. I could see Russ as using the spear he used against Horus, or maybe something like the Emperors Bolt Gun with some special ability.

I suspect if he comes back, they retcon his hands.  While it would be grim-dark to see your kids have been scratching their initials in the bones of your hands, to see them CONITNUE to do it would be pretty creepy.   Best to just regrow or change the history there. 

[Medjugorje]

On 1/11/2025 at 9:37 AM, ZeroWolf said:

See, I was thinking Dorn would have the claw (with bionics inside) to replace his lost hand.

The Emperors Claw. I like that idea

[Brat Igorus]

Hello my brother's !

 

What do you thinks of the Emperor's champion's vision in the new novel " The perfect son"?

[Tacitus]

Well I don't think Dorn is next.  I think Russ is next, especially given how late in the process Space Wolves are.  I imagine Fulgrim is going to go on a tear somewhere near The Eye, or Fenris or both (since they're so nearby)  Dorn is probably 11th, and more probably more Templar than Fist but available for any of them.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I just have never ascribed to the idea that a returned Dorn will be Templar flavored. You can find any lore rationalization you want but I just don't see it, even if templar have a bigger model presence than fists. I'm sure if released a lot of players will want to paint him black, but officially? nah.

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I just have never ascribed to the idea that a returned Dorn will be Templar flavored. You can find any lore rationalization you want but I just don't see it, even if templar have a bigger model presence than fists. I'm sure if released a lot of players will want to paint him black, but officially? nah.

I think he's Templar because Templar are part of the Loyalist "Big Five".  Chaos have Black Legion, Children, Deathguard, Thousand Sons, and Worldeaters.  The balance is Ultramarines, Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and... Templars provide a fifth subfaction with a codex/supplement.  So I think he comes back and can obviously lead any of his legion chapters, but I think they fluff him and rules-nudge him to Templar.  Potentially going so far as to make him the Super Duper Emperor's Champion

[Medjugorje]

On 4/29/2025 at 5:21 AM, Tacitus said:

I think he's Templar because Templar are part of the Loyalist "Big Five".  Chaos have Black Legion, Children, Deathguard, Thousand Sons, and Worldeaters.  The balance is Ultramarines, Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and... Templars provide a fifth subfaction with a codex/supplement.  So I think he comes back and can obviously lead any of his legion chapters, but I think they fluff him and rules-nudge him to Templar.  Potentially going so far as to make him the Super Duper Emperor's Champion

in the Helbrecht novel there is a hint of that... then in the Fulgrim novel now as well AND

even in WARHAWK they said that the emperors champion was Dorns name at first - then Dorn himself thought it would fit to sigismund too.

[Karhedron]

I thought that Dorn's title was the Emperor's Praetorian, but I may be misremembering. 

[Medjugorje]

I know. But in fact this are Dorns owns words in Warhawk.

 

You are correct in terms of the Praetorian.

[Orange Knight]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:30 AM, MadGamerAK said:

Hey, so, I heard a rumor of a theory about Rogal Dorn, the theory is that he may be in hiding as an Adeptus Custode, now, I have faith in this theory, because Dorn's purpose was to protect the Emperor, the theory would add up, as the Custodes have the same purpose, anybody here agree with this theory?

 

What a disappointing use of the abilities of a Primarch, especially one as gifted as Dorn.

 

If Dorn is to return, I would want a suitable and logical reson for his absense. It doesn't have to be clever - he could be trapped in the warp, in a stasis prison, etc etc

 

Dorn was an empire builder in his own way - not as gifted as Guilliman in this regard, but he accomplished it with a defensive mindset. If he was alive and well, and on Terra, then the empire of man would have crumbled gradually over time infront of his eyes and he would have done nothing about it. I think it would be extremely damaging to his character.

Also, was he hiding out of sight in a box when Guilliman was on terra?

[Karhedron]

35 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

What a disappointing use of the abilities of a Primarch, especially one as gifted as Dorn.

 

If Dorn is to return, I would want a suitable and logical reson for his absense. It doesn't have to be clever - he could be trapped in the warp, in a stasis prison, etc etc

 

Yes, both Guilliman and the Lion had their absences enforced by injuries. Russ and Corax left on mysterious quests while the Khan is MIA. Vulkan may or may not still be guarding the broken webway portal in the Throne Room (we don't know if he survived the War of the Beast). The last sighting of Dorn was his apparent death during the 1st Black Crusade. For him to survive and not return publicly suggests he is either injured/imprisoned somehow or has gone a quest. If he was chilling with the Custodians then there were plenty of occasions when Terra was threatened and he might have reappeared but didn't (War of the Beast, Age of Apostacy, opening of the Great Rift). Sitting out all of those seems out of character.

 

35 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Dorn was an empire builder in his own way - not as gifted as Guilliman in this regard, but he accomplished it with a defensive mindset.

 

He was a physical builder to compliment Guilliman who was skilled at designing systems of governance and logistics.

[Tacitus]

17 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, both Guilliman and the Lion had their absences enforced by injuries. Russ and Corax left on mysterious quests while the Khan is MIA. Vulkan may or may not still be guarding the broken webway portal in the Throne Room (we don't know if he survived the War of the Beast). The last sighting of Dorn was his apparent death during the 1st Black Crusade. For him to survive and not return publicly suggests he is either injured/imprisoned somehow or has gone a quest. If he was chilling with the Custodians then there were plenty of occasions when Terra was threatened and he might have reappeared but didn't (War of the Beast, Age of Apostacy, opening of the Great Rift). Sitting out all of those seems out of character.

 

 

He was a physical builder to compliment Guilliman who was skilled at designing systems of governance and logistics.

The Khan is in the Webway.

 

Dorn is an Engineer, Guilliman was a Logistician.

 

Dorn's most likely excused absence plays into him coming back primarily for the Templar:  He was on a long long crusade.

[Medjugorje]

On 4/29/2025 at 2:24 AM, Marshal Reinhard said:

I just have never ascribed to the idea that a returned Dorn will be Templar flavored. You can find any lore rationalization you want but I just don't see it, even if templar have a bigger model presence than fists. I'm sure if released a lot of players will want to paint him black, but officially? nah.

He will be golden (like helbrecht is) and therefore he can be part of a Black Templar and an imperial Fist army. So both factions are equal (like the lore is AND should be)

[Commander Nicky]

My thoughts on it is; they will not review Dorn. More likeliy they will review Russ. There are several argument and suggustions to that:

 

1. It will drive the plot in 40k forward

2. It will create coherence in the plot

3. It will create a sort of balance in the Imperium

4. It will give the Imperium more room for manuvering

5. IT WILL defently give more stories and actions!!!

6. It will mean, that they will not have to reawake Sangunius or create new characters that are already dead or already are in the universe without introducing new concepts

7. Alternative they can make a Kardon Stronos model, but I don't see if any will find that funny...

 

We have four powers in the Imperium Sanctus; The Terran goverment (the "Core imperium", Lion's Protectorate, Guilliman's Ultramar and the Dark Imperium. Llosts of drama. The later is under Luis Dante control. 

 

The Terran goverment is unstable. With Guilliman trying to regroup the Imperium back into some sence of coherence after Cadian's Fall he is enlarging his own personal Imperium (Ultramar). To that end, he has Increased Ultramar to "it's former glory" by raising new chapters and proclaming himself leader of this "Regional" Imperium. That is why the Terran goverment is uproar and is trying to depose of him.

Guilliman however also have problem controlling his own territory and team. The later is because he is facing crisis with his own team (Sicarius and Agemman were in a "state of competition" while Calgar was in charge, giving Calgar imminense influence over his Chapter, and that is a problem for Guilliman). By promoting both of them, Guilliman is trying the dimishing Calgar's influence in Ultramar.

 

All the while, the Lion reapears and is carving out his own territory in the middle of the chaos (in the Imperium). His former Legion's power and unity is in periale thanks to Luther and the defect of the Unforgiven at the Battle at Idolatros. So the Lion is offering clemency the Fallen (those who were neutral in the powerstruggle between Luther's group and Lion El'Johnson's group) and rebuilding the First Legion's strength; Giving the task of the former to himself and the later the Azrael. 

 

IF ROGAL RETRUNS... What will it add? If I was a writer of plot, I should leave him out... for now.

 

If Russ return ### it will create plots like noting else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like Sangunius entering the Imperium Secundus...