Jump to content

Theory of Rogal Dorn's return.

MadGamerAK

By MadGamerAK
in + ADEPTUS ASTARTES +

 Share

Recommended Posts

Tacitus Veteran

Tacitus

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I think we'll get 4 on each side.. or maybe the 3 big loyalists only.

 

Games Workshop haven't updated Lysander yet. I really have no expectations of them releasing any Imperial Fist models beyond just updating a character... eventually, if at all. 

 

I've mentioned this before, but I get the impression that GW's experiment with the lesser known chapters has probably convinced them not to support them much going forward. They would have collected metrics on the supplements and the models and the chapter usage in the previous editions, and that's why they've scaled back support for the codex chapters in 10th. I hope I'm wrong of course.

 

I think that by the time Fulgrim and Russ have been released, it will not be far off from starting the release cycle all over again. So... I'm expecting a new Guilliman, an updated Intercessor kit, etc etc. They do actually have to update the kits as they abandoned the different rifle variations, so there is a lot of wasted space on those sprues that could go towards Sgt upgrades, special weapons, etc etc.

By the time Russ actually drops, a lot of Primaris kits are going to be over or close to 10 years old. Let's not forget how many times the old Tactical squads were refreshed, and how many small chapter specific variants existed. That's what I imagine we'll be getting.

 

 

I still think they release Dorn to give the fourth "divergent" a Primarch.  They'll make him with rules for all three chapters, maybe interchangable bits (but probably not) but primarily he'll be aligned with the Templar divergents, they'll hand wave a return for Horus, and we'll have 5 and 5 - and then they just stop.  My guess is we find out Cawl was raising a little baby Horus sibling/clone - i.e. not from some blood drop on the Emperor's armor etc - but actually recreated the entire process to make a new Horus.  Baby Horus grows at an accellerated rate, but the Primarchs can't bring themselves to kill a little baby sibling just in case Horus turns out to be good.  The Black Legion snatch him, yadda yadda. 

ZeroWolf Venerable Brother

ZeroWolf

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I still think they release Dorn to give the fourth "divergent" a Primarch.  They'll make him with rules for all three chapters, maybe interchangable bits (but probably not) but primarily he'll be aligned with the Templar divergents, they'll hand wave a return for Horus, and we'll have 5 and 5 - and then they just stop.  My guess is we find out Cawl was raising a little baby Horus sibling/clone - i.e. not from some blood drop on the Emperor's armor etc - but actually recreated the entire process to make a new Horus.  Baby Horus grows at an accellerated rate, but the Primarchs can't bring themselves to kill a little baby sibling just in case Horus turns out to be good.  The Black Legion snatch him, yadda yadda. 

I think Abaddon is the Horus stand in (he's already killed a clone Horus afterall). 

 

However the people saying GW will stop after 4-5 primarchs have a lot more faith in them showing restraint than I do :laugh: the people making the decisions will be looking at it like: Primarchs = Money. It'll be very hard to leave that on the table.

Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Venerable Brother

Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, can be possible. Atvleast,sounds quite cool. Dorn or Russ are the most probables to return in a near future,in my opinion. But before that we're going to see other things. Much more other thing, specially for Chaos. After that, probably after a full release of EC, probably GW will give us another loyalist Primarch. And I bet for Russ or Dorn.60%-40% each.

Edited by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf
Inquisitor_Lensoven Novitiate

Inquisitor_Lensoven

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Well, csn be possible. Atvleast,sounds quite cool. Dorn or Russ are the most probables to return in a near future,in my opinion. But before that we're going to see other things. Much more other thing, specially for Chaos. After that, probably after a full release of EC, probably GW will give us another loyalist Primarch. And I bet for Russ or Dorn.60%-40% each.

Almost certainly Russ first.

probably not in 10th, but in 11th, then dorn in 12th.

Osteoclast Battle-Brother

Osteoclast

Posted
Posted

He will come back alongside Primaris size Centurions and we’ll finally have a leader unit for them. 
 

My own personal headbrew for his disappearance is that a quite justifiably panicking TSons sorcerer was performing a “get me out of here” ritual, Dorn blammed in and was choking the dust out of him when it activated and away he went, minus hand outside the circle, much like a Stargate teleportation. Now he’s stuck somewhere blocked by warp storms that the Great Rift conveniently removes, allowing for his return. 

TheArtilleryman Venerable Brother

TheArtilleryman

Posted
Posted

Although I’m not really that keen on primarchs in 40K, I would be OK with the return of Dorn, Russ, Corax, Khan, Vulkan (he’s a perpetual after all, so has the most plausible reason for returning), Perturabo and Lorgar. Also Omegon, because I don’t think (?) he’s proven dead. In fact, can we even be sure that Dorn killed Alpharius? The thing with the AL is you’re never sure who you’re talking to.

 

I would not support the return of Horus, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Curze. If you’re dead, you’re dead, as far as I’m concerned and Horus and Sanguinius in particular need to stay dead. Their deaths are such a pivotal iconic part of the lore that the whole universe hinges upon that I just think it would be a terribly sad cash-in to bring them back.

 

What I’m really scared of is GW doing a whole “End Times” thing and turning the whole 40K universe upside down like they did with AoS. Kinda feels like we are in that kind of territory narrative-wise at the moment.

Inquisitor_Lensoven Novitiate

Inquisitor_Lensoven

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Although I’m not really that keen on primarchs in 40K, I would be OK with the return of Dorn, Russ, Corax, Khan, Vulkan (he’s a perpetual after all, so has the most plausible reason for returning), Perturabo and Lorgar. Also Omegon, because I don’t think (?) he’s proven dead. In fact, can we even be sure that Dorn killed Alpharius? The thing with the AL is you’re never sure who you’re talking to.

 

I would not support the return of Horus, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Curze. If you’re dead, you’re dead, as far as I’m concerned and Horus and Sanguinius in particular need to stay dead. Their deaths are such a pivotal iconic part of the lore that the whole universe hinges upon that I just think it would be a terribly sad cash-in to bring them back.

 

What I’m really scared of is GW doing a whole “End Times” thing and turning the whole 40K universe upside down like they did with AoS. Kinda feels like we are in that kind of territory narrative-wise at the moment.

Sanguinius is already back, so that ship has sailed.

 

as for the end times, that happened because WHFB wasn’t selling well and they had to figure out a way to revamp the game. The end times was just a lore explanation for what all the new stuff was.

i think 8th and the introduction of primaris was basically 40k’s version of the end times.

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven
Inquisitor_Lensoven Novitiate

Inquisitor_Lensoven

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:


Yeah in a vision…

Yes a vision where sanguinius spoke to him from the warp.

he’s back and working in the universe.

claiming he’s not back would be silly.

 

just like ka’bandha is alive and active some where in the warp and realm of chaos, sanguinius is also clearly alive and active.

LSM Battle-Brother

LSM

Posted
Posted

A couple things which jumped out at me when I did my re-read of all the Index Astartes article (which I summed up in The Horus Heresy According to 2004):

  • "It fell to Dorn to discover the bodies of the Emperor, Horus and Sanguinius after the final drama had run its course. His grief was immense. Until that point Dorn had been true, noble and enduring, but now he became an avenging son. While the Ultramarines maintained order within the Imperium, the Imperial Fists hunted down the traitors, levelling fortress after fortress. Dorn led them, dressed in the black of mourning, his customary mercy set aside until the guilty were punished. While others shaped the new Imperium, Dorn immersed himself in implacable justice. It was rumoured that he saw the Emperor's death as his personal failure and his crusade as penance."
  • "Rogal Dorn outlived many of his brother Primarchs and each loss saddened him greatly. Also, as fewer Primarchs remained, each began to attract unhealthy respect. With the Emperor on Terra, some distant systems began to deify the Primarchs they encountered. To Dorn, only the Emperor was worthy of this attention and he feared the consequences. However, sacrifice came easily to Dorn..."

The first point highlights how well-suited he is (in this telling) to leading the Black Templars.

 

The second point is right before the tale of his disappearance. It seems (to me) to give plenty of justification for him wanting to fake his death (he was becoming uncomfortable with the Imperium).

 

TheArtilleryman Venerable Brother

TheArtilleryman

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yes a vision where sanguinius spoke to him from the warp.

he’s back and working in the universe.

claiming he’s not back would be silly.

 

just like ka’bandha is alive and active some where in the warp and realm of chaos, sanguinius is also clearly alive and active.


Sad thing is you are probably right and we will see a model before long. I just wish they wouldn’t …

Inquisitor_Lensoven Novitiate

Inquisitor_Lensoven

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:


Sad thing is you are probably right and we will see a model before long. I just wish they wouldn’t …

Primarchs don’t belong in 40K but when they decided to bring some back it was quite clear they’d bring all back.

 

and as I’ve said a million times at this point, bringing sanguinius back does nothing to his sacrifice unless they claim he knew before hand that he’d be resurrected.

sanguinius’ return also shouldn’t have any effect on the black rage.

 

it all just simply comes down to execution in the lore if it’s well done or not

MadGamerAK Veteran

MadGamerAK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
48 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Primarchs don’t belong in 40K but when they decided to bring some back it was quite clear they’d bring all back.

 

and as I’ve said a million times at this point, bringing sanguinius back does nothing to his sacrifice unless they claim he knew before hand that he’d be resurrected.

sanguinius’ return also shouldn’t have any effect on the black rage.

 

it all just simply comes down to execution in the lore if it’s well done or not

Yeah, Sanguinius needs to just be dead, however, I think it's ok to bring back some Primarchs to 40k.

SWORD BROTHER RYAN Venerable Brother

SWORD BROTHER RYAN

Posted
Posted

Assuming for a moment that he IS alive somewhere, IMO the only way him coming back is an out ant out chaos assault on Terra once again, maybe a "Last Wall" situation. I think it would have to be particularly heavy enough to have him come back in his prior role as Pretorian, fight the attack off, then reenter the galactic battle from there.

 

I would love an updated Dorn to return, but realistically, it makes more sense for Primarchs like Russ, Khan, Vulcan (who already came back once), or even Corax to be brought back. The arcs of their stories have then as "alive" somewhere. I'm sure that GW, if they really wanted to, could McGuffin him back one way or another, it's just from a cannon perspective, a returned Dorn means one that could be more viable given current lore won't be returning.

 

The 2 Chaos Primarchs to 1 Imperial ratio, if kept, would mean that we might see only one more loyalist creep back at some point. As much as I hate to say it, I really don't think Dorn will be the one, (A GW curve-ball not withstanding)

ZeroWolf Venerable Brother

ZeroWolf

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SWORD BROTHER RYAN said:

Assuming for a moment that he IS alive somewhere, IMO the only way him coming back is an out ant out chaos assault on Terra once again, maybe a "Last Wall" situation. I think it would have to be particularly heavy enough to have him come back in his prior role as Pretorian, fight the attack off, then reenter the galactic battle from there.

 

I would love an updated Dorn to return, but realistically, it makes more sense for Primarchs like Russ, Khan, Vulcan (who already came back once), or even Corax to be brought back. The arcs of their stories have then as "alive" somewhere. I'm sure that GW, if they really wanted to, could McGuffin him back one way or another, it's just from a cannon perspective, a returned Dorn means one that could be more viable given current lore won't be returning.

 

The 2 Chaos Primarchs to 1 Imperial ratio, if kept, would mean that we might see only one more loyalist creep back at some point. As much as I hate to say it, I really don't think Dorn will be the one, (A GW curve-ball not withstanding)

It's also an assumption that GW keep the 2:1 ratio, i suspect in the search for more money, that'll be quietly ditched. Again though, we've got plenty of time for many of these theories to be tested. If they do bring back everyone, I'll have plenty of practice painting them when Sanguinius comes out in 2041 with the end of 14th edition :laugh:

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.

  I accept