How Primaris being played as SW

[Grimtooth]

Been out so long, no idea how we are getting integrating Primaris. 
 

Are SW detachment rules, enhancements, and stratagems making units “wolfy” versus actual unit rules making them “wolfy”?

 

SW Combat Patrol is just Primaris Marines, with no SW unit rules, other than detachment, enhancements, and stratagems that make them like SW. The Grotmas Champions of Russ does the same if you choose to run all Primaris. I see some exceptions with like Ragnar and Hounds of Morkai, but that is all. 

[Karhedron]

So far the only SW Primaris units we have are Ragnar and the Hounds. Wulfen are also Primaris-scaled. Our unique units like Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are currently Firstborn only. 

 

Dark Angels and Blood Angels recently had codex supplements that introduced several of their units as Primaris. These include Deathwing Knights, Deaths Company and Sanguinary Guard. It is strongly rumoured that Space Wolves will get a similar update at some point this year.

 

There are several standard units that do well in Space Wolves lists such as Blade Guard Veterans. They can be decorated with spare parts to Wolf them up a bit if you like. 

 

Edited December 25, 2024 by Karhedron

[Grimtooth]

That is what my research so far has shown me and I have dipped into the other forums and saw that BA and DA did get updated Primaris units. 
 

However that leaves me in a bind because I have no desire to retrofit built and painted models when our new codex comes out. I have been retrofitting or saying goodbye to beloved units since 3rd edition and don’t feel like wasting the time or money with Primaris. 
 

It it plays out like DA/BA and we get a solid showing of SW Primaris units vs Primaris units playing SW dress-up, I will be 100% all in. My biggest concern is lack of Primaris sized wolf bits to build out a decent looking army which looks like it gets somewhat addressed in additional sprues when/if we get units in the new codex. 

[Karhedron]

If it helps at all, the following units have been rumoured to be coming.

 

Primaris Grey Hunters 

Primaris Blood Claws 

Logan Grimnar

Elite bodyguard unit (think Bladeguard Vets or Inner Circle Companions)

Wolf Scouts

 

If you stay away from units like this, that still leaves you with plenty of units you can safely build without having to worry about them being obsolete by the new codex.

[Grimtooth]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

If it helps at all, the following units have been rumoured to be coming.

 

Primaris Grey Hunters 

Primaris Blood Claws 

Logan Grimnar

Elite bodyguard unit (think Bladeguard Vets or Inner Circle Companions)

Wolf Scouts

 

If you stay away from units like this, that still leaves you with plenty of units you can safely build without having to worry about them being obsolete by the new codex.

The disparity in size and absolute craptastic lore wrangling when Primaris first came out has soured me on even bothering with what everyone is calling Firstborn. Basically gonna close my eyes and pretend that 40k was always Primaris Marines and move on. 

[TopToffee]

19 hours ago, Grimtooth said:

The disparity in size and absolute craptastic lore wrangling when Primaris first came out has soured me on even bothering with what everyone is calling Firstborn. Basically gonna close my eyes and pretend that 40k was always Primaris Marines and move on. 

 

The introduction wasn't the best in terms of lore, but let's be honest, the Primaris models (and the scale in general) are just.... better.

[Grimtooth]

15 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

 

The introduction wasn't the best in terms of lore, but let's be honest, the Primaris models (and the scale in general) are just.... better.

100% agree which is why I am in this limbo on building a new Wolves army because I won’t have any Firstborn in it. GW has the Primaris models, we just need the upgrade sprues and rules. 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

On 12/25/2024 at 8:30 PM, Karhedron said:

If it helps at all, the following units have been rumoured to be coming.

 

Primaris Grey Hunters 

Primaris Blood Claws 

Logan Grimnar

Elite bodyguard unit (think Bladeguard Vets or Inner Circle Companions)

Wolf Scouts

 

If you stay away from units like this, that still leaves you with plenty of units you can safely build without having to worry about them being obsolete by the new codex.

That is assuming, of course, that the non-updated stuff stays in the supplement and isn't banished along with the other Firstborn stuff.

That being said, look forward to the inevitable Upgrade kit, since the 10th Ed ones have had quite a few random useful bits in them so far.

[Kassill]

Plenty of 3rd party bits floating around, additionally many firstborn kit bits fit onto primaris models. I too was cold on them at first then a year or two after they came out (2017) i got a box of intercessors and they were such a delight to build and paint. They actually feel like space marines, not the short kings we played many editions with that were almost the same size as cadian guard models. I have thoroughly enjoyed "wolfing" primaris units so far. 

As far as "wolfy" units, they are as wolfy as you want them to be. Assault intercessors can be your bloodclaws, outriders can be your swiftclaws, etc etc. Forge your narrative. I think 2+ish editions ago they had examples in the codexes of what primaris units might be as far as pack markings, etc. And their is a quote of Grimnar accepting them as Sons of Russ that I first saw in a white dwarf, something like "do you want this brothers marching in step under the banner of macragge??" (paraphrased probably not half way close but I dont have the magazine on hand lol) and I think there was another instance of the Wolf Lords meeting and debating and Ragnar basically says (again paraphrased) "there are bigger things to be concerned with in the galaxy and Fenris just got molly whopped and the population thinned by chaos and the inquisition....soooo "

Our unique units (what you would be more familiar with) unfortunately have pretty bad profiles for 10th or are overcosted (looking at you wolf guard terminators....) The following are what I see being played the most when I browse tournament results:

Thunderwolves - stormlance detachment pushed them for over half a year, wolf jail as it was known. A few still kicking around but repeated point hikes kind of kicked them in the teeth. Damage profile can feel lackluster but the idea is you lockdown your opponent and beat them to death with the characters and torrent of 5 -1 1 (sometimes 2) attacks 

Logan - he has a once per game army wide ability that is incredibly strong, people take him on foot as a solo mission play piece but some take him on the sled if running cav

Wolf Lord and Battle Leader on Thunderwolf- should mention them now while im thinking about. Critical pieces for TWC which otherwise feel...soft. They get unique wargear still 

Wulfen - started 10th as wet paper bags, got a slight buff to their hammers. Great skirmishers or tarpits for melee opponents to deal with. Have gone up a bit in points, but still good

Wolf Scouts - just got an AP buff so having a unit that is both versatile for scoring, but can also skirmish with enemy infilitrators, scouts, etc etc is nice. 

Ragnar - he's a cheap beatstick, toss him in with assault intercessors or blade guard vets. He can mulch a lot of enemy infantry/MEQ

Bjorn - arguably as strong or essential to SW lists as Logan, he is a tanky old man that can soak a lot of damage. His aura ability to tax enemy stratagems is very powerful

Ulrik + Bloodclaws or Wolf Guard - doing this as one because they are sort of a whombo combo. Ulrik give strong rerolls, Blood claws have volume, while Wolf Guard have 2+ WS and stormshield invuls. Sort of a preference but I've seen plenty of both variations. Usually in a rhino 

 

Sadly, most of the bread and butter units from 5th-7th era are just....weak sauce. Grey Hunters are very underwhelming and have a bad datasheet ability. Either version of intercessor is just better here. Hounds of Morkai are still just too niche despite me wanting to play them. They also DIDN'T get the AP buff to combat knives recently which is funny/sad... Swiftclaws got legends I believe when they legends'd all of the vanilla bike units as well. Skyclaws are ok, but Jump Pack Intercessors just fill that roll a bit better. The special weapons are not enough to make them valuable and the JPI just have more alpha damage with mortal wound output. Wolf Guard Terminators are just too costly IMO. When you compare them to other terminator units across Space Marines and even the traitor legions they just fall short. They pop "occasionally" but not enough yet for me to be swayed. Iron Priest being 5pts more than a techmarine for a tempest hammer and frost pistol is not enough for me to run him. Njal, Arjac, and all the other named characters are pretty mid to lukewarm. Long Fangs are also pretty underwhelming. it's not that the weapons are bad, it's just that their ability relies on them standing still and hoping your opponent puts something juicy out for them to see. The game is very movement based and terrain heavy at the moment. Wulfen dreads and Venerable dreads are mild. There was a meme list of "oops all dreads" that was making the rounds for a bit. Flyers are bad. Outside of Skari breaking the dark eldar bomber for a bit, they are bad across the board regardless of army. Too pricey and too fragile. 

 

I apologize for the wall of text, but just trying to help get you caught up and out of the feels you are in about the current state of space wolves. It does feel like a long band aid pull getting them updated like they did DA, BA and BT. Thanks James Workshop

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Kassill

[Grimtooth]

4 hours ago, Kassill said:

Plenty of 3rd party bits floating around, additionally many firstborn kit bits fit onto primaris models. I too was cold on them at first then a year or two after they came out (2017) i got a box of intercessors and they were such a delight to build and paint. They actually feel like space marines, not the short kings we played many editions with that were almost the same size as cadian guard models. I have thoroughly enjoyed "wolfing" primaris units so far. 

As far as "wolfy" units, they are as wolfy as you want them to be. Assault intercessors can be your bloodclaws, outriders can be your swiftclaws, etc etc. Forge your narrative. I think 2+ish editions ago they had examples in the codexes of what primaris units might be as far as pack markings, etc. And their is a quote of Grimnar accepting them as Sons of Russ that I first saw in a white dwarf, something like "do you want this brothers marching in step under the banner of macragge??" (paraphrased probably not half way close but I dont have the magazine on hand lol) and I think there was another instance of the Wolf Lords meeting and debating and Ragnar basically says (again paraphrased) "there are bigger things to be concerned with in the galaxy and Fenris just got molly whopped and the population thinned by chaos and the inquisition....soooo "

Our unique units (what you would be more familiar with) unfortunately have pretty bad profiles for 10th or are overcosted (looking at you wolf guard terminators....) The following are what I see being played the most when I browse tournament results:

Thunderwolves - stormlance detachment pushed them for over half a year, wolf jail as it was known. A few still kicking around but repeated point hikes kind of kicked them in the teeth. Damage profile can feel lackluster but the idea is you lockdown your opponent and beat them to death with the characters and torrent of 5 -1 1 (sometimes 2) attacks 

Logan - he has a once per game army wide ability that is incredibly strong, people take him on foot as a solo mission play piece but some take him on the sled if running cav

Wolf Lord and Battle Leader on Thunderwolf- should mention them now while im thinking about. Critical pieces for TWC which otherwise feel...soft. They get unique wargear still 

Wulfen - started 10th as wet paper bags, got a slight buff to their hammers. Great skirmishers or tarpits for melee opponents to deal with. Have gone up a bit in points, but still good

Wolf Scouts - just got an AP buff so having a unit that is both versatile for scoring, but can also skirmish with enemy infilitrators, scouts, etc etc is nice. 

Ragnar - he's a cheap beatstick, toss him in with assault intercessors or blade guard vets. He can mulch a lot of enemy infantry/MEQ

Bjorn - arguably as strong or essential to SW lists as Logan, he is a tanky old man that can soak a lot of damage. His aura ability to tax enemy stratagems is very powerful

Ulrik + Bloodclaws or Wolf Guard - doing this as one because they are sort of a whombo combo. Ulrik give strong rerolls, Blood claws have volume, while Wolf Guard have 2+ WS and stormshield invuls. Sort of a preference but I've seen plenty of both variations. Usually in a rhino 

 

Sadly, most of the bread and butter units from 5th-7th era are just....weak sauce. Grey Hunters are very underwhelming and have a bad datasheet ability. Either version of intercessor is just better here. Hounds of Morkai are still just too niche despite me wanting to play them. They also DIDN'T get the AP buff to combat knives recently which is funny/sad... Swiftclaws got legends I believe when they legends'd all of the vanilla bike units as well. Skyclaws are ok, but Jump Pack Intercessors just fill that roll a bit better. The special weapons are not enough to make them valuable and the JPI just have more alpha damage with mortal wound output. Wolf Guard Terminators are just too costly IMO. When you compare them to other terminator units across Space Marines and even the traitor legions they just fall short. They pop "occasionally" but not enough yet for me to be swayed. Iron Priest being 5pts more than a techmarine for a tempest hammer and frost pistol is not enough for me to run him. Njal, Arjac, and all the other named characters are pretty mid to lukewarm. Long Fangs are also pretty underwhelming. it's not that the weapons are bad, it's just that their ability relies on them standing still and hoping your opponent puts something juicy out for them to see. The game is very movement based and terrain heavy at the moment. Wulfen dreads and Venerable dreads are mild. There was a meme list of "oops all dreads" that was making the rounds for a bit. Flyers are bad. Outside of Skari breaking the dark eldar bomber for a bit, they are bad across the board regardless of army. Too pricey and too fragile. 

 

I apologize for the wall of text, but just trying to help get you caught up and out of the feels you are in about the current state of space wolves. It does feel like a long band aid pull getting them updated like they did DA, BA and BT. Thanks James Workshop

 

There is nothing “wolfy” about an Assault Intercessor squad that plays exactly like every other Assault Intercessor squad in every other army when they don’t get the bonuses or handicaps of a Blood Claws Pack. Same with Intercessors being played as Grey Hunters or Desolation as Long Fangs. 
 

We have seen how BA have gotten Death Company Primaris. There should be no hurdle for us getting Wolf Guard/Grey Hunter/Blood Claw/Wolf Scout/Swift Claw/Sky Claw/Long Fang Primaris in our next codex.

 

Otherwise we just end up playing grey painted Ultramarines. 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

21 hours ago, Grimtooth said:

100% agree which is why I am in this limbo on building a new Wolves army because I won’t have any Firstborn in it. GW has the Primaris models, we just need the upgrade sprues and rules. 

 

I agree with your thoughts. It hard to commit to working on my wolves because there’s no clarity on how things might change. I do expect it to change. Models that are probably safe to work on are Wulfen, Ragnar, hounds of Morkai, any marine unit that doesn’t have a comparable SW unit ie Aggressors, and vehicles. If you’re into converting it might be safe to work on Intercessors/ assault Intercessors but I expect we might not get access to those units if we get grey hunters and blood claws. Stinks being in limbo. I hope when 11th comes out it is backwards compatible with 10th edition codexes. 

[Kassill]

16 hours ago, Grimtooth said:

There is nothing “wolfy” about an Assault Intercessor squad that plays exactly like every other Assault Intercessor squad in every other army when they don’t get the bonuses or handicaps of a Blood Claws Pack. Same with Intercessors being played as Grey Hunters or Desolation as Long Fangs. 
 

We have seen how BA have gotten Death Company Primaris. There should be no hurdle for us getting Wolf Guard/Grey Hunter/Blood Claw/Wolf Scout/Swift Claw/Sky Claw/Long Fang Primaris in our next codex.

 

Otherwise we just end up playing grey painted Ultramarines. 

 

 

My brother in Russ, you are looking at this through rose colored 5th ed lenses. If datasheet names are the only thing that determine what is wolfy and not wolfy maybe you should just wait or find a group that plays older editions. Simple as. My intercessors are just as much space wolves as bloodclaws or anything else, because I put the time into them. If you want to call them grey ultras feel free but don't throw shade so sourly on the rest of us. You must have NEVER played with rhino's or predators huh? Nothing wolfy about those mhmm 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Kassill

[Grimtooth]

9 hours ago, Kassill said:

 

 

My brother in Russ, you are looking at this through rose colored 5th ed lenses. If datasheet names are the only thing that determine what is wolfy and not wolfy maybe you should just wait or find a group that plays older editions. Simple as. My intercessors are just as much space wolves as bloodclaws or anything else, because I put the time into them. If you want to call them grey ultras feel free but don't throw shade so sourly on the rest of us. You must have NEVER played with rhino's or predators huh? Nothing wolfy about those mhmm 

You only need to look at Ragnar’s datasheet to see a SW unit that was turned into a Primaris unit and retained his wolfy rules. You only need to look at Hounds of Morkai to see a Primaris unit that was made wolfy by adding a unit rule. You can even look at Thoryk’s rules for his Combat Patrol and see how his enhancements make a Primaris unit wolfy. 
 

Your Intercessor squads who self-identify as SW and use SW pronouns are no different than the myriad of other SM chapters with the exact same Intercessor squads.

 

If the new codex does what I pointed out above with Ragnar, Hounds of Morkai, and Thoryk we are good to go. If not, it is a wasted codex update. 

[Kassill]

On 12/28/2024 at 3:50 AM, Grimtooth said:

You only need to look at Ragnar’s datasheet to see a SW unit that was turned into a Primaris unit and retained his wolfy rules. You only need to look at Hounds of Morkai to see a Primaris unit that was made wolfy by adding a unit rule. You can even look at Thoryk’s rules for his Combat Patrol and see how his enhancements make a Primaris unit wolfy. 
 

Your Intercessor squads who self-identify as SW and use SW pronouns are no different than the myriad of other SM chapters with the exact same Intercessor squads.

 

If the new codex does what I pointed out above with Ragnar, Hounds of Morkai, and Thoryk we are good to go. If not, it is a wasted codex update. 

 

Mentioning pronouns when discussing plastic models tells me all I need to know about you.  Enjoy being grumpy

[Karhedron]

On 12/28/2024 at 8:50 AM, Grimtooth said:

Your Intercessor squads who self-identify as SW and use SW pronouns are no different than the myriad of other SM chapters with the exact same Intercessor squads.

 

I disagree. Wolves have always had plenty of overlap with codex-compliant Chapters, even if they had unique flavours of infantry. Look at my Space Wolf Intercessors below. They are modelled and painted as Space Wolves and they have wolfy rules thanks to the Detachment. Saga of the Beastslayer or Warrior Born means they will hit harder in melee than equivalent units in other Chapters. Would I like Primaris Grey Hunters and Blood Claws? Of course I would but in the meantime, these guys look and play like Space Wolves.