Ideas for Outrider Characters

[L30n1d4s]

I'd say most of the Marine line has been pretty filled out, but with only a Chaplain on Bike, I think Space Marine mounted units really need some characters to lead them.

 

What do you think the Mounted Characters should be like? Here is my take:

 

-Captain on Bike -- Rites of Battle (-1CP for a Strat per Battle Round) and Leader of the Hunt (his unit piles and consolidates 6", instead of 3")

 

-Librarian on Bike -- Psychic Hood (4++ FNP gains Psychic attacks) and Ride the Winds (his unit gains +2" to Advance and Charge rolls)

 

-Lieutenant on Bike -- Tactical Precision (Lethal Hits) and Mounted Barrage (his unit gains Rapid Fire 1 for its Shooting)

 

-Swiftguard Veterans -- 3-6, one can take Banner (+1 OC), all have TLed Bolt Rifle, Storm Shield, and Relic Lances (3A melee S6 AP-2 Dmg2, Lance) and have special rule for +1A and -1AP on the charge.

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 minutes ago, L30n1d4s said:

I'd say most of the Marine line has been pretty filled out, but with only a Chaplain on Bike, I think Space Marine mounted units really need some characters to lead them.

 

What do you think the Mounted Characters should be like? Here is my take:

 

-Captain on Bike -- Rites of Battle (-1CP for a Strat per Battle Round) and Leader of the Hunt (his unit piles and consolidates 6", instead of 3")

 

-Librarian on Bike -- Psychic Hood (4++ FNP gains Psychic attacks) and Ride the Winds (his unit gains +2" to Advance and Charge rolls)

 

-Lieutenant on Bike -- Tactical Precision (Lethal Hits) and Mounted Barrage (his unit gains Rapid Fire 1 for its Shooting)

 

-Swiftguard Veterans -- 3-6, one can take Banner (+1 OC), all have TLed Bolt Rifle, Storm Shield, and Relic Lances (3A melee S6 AP-2 Dmg2, Lance) and have special rule for +1A and -1AP on the charge.

 

The veterans would be better sanguinary guard

[HeadlessCross]

8 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The veterans would be better sanguinary guard

Not really. Outriders have unwieldy bases that make them impossible to move around a board with a modicum of terrain and Sanguinary Guars still have their own shenanigans. 

[AutumnEffect]

 

I've never liked the idea of a 'full' storm shield on a bike model for the veterans. It just feels like it would be a bit too unwieldy (gotta keep one hand on a handlebar after all) and steps a bit on Assault Terminator and Blade Guard's toes. I think having an Apothecary to give the unit Feel No Pain would be great and they would get a lot of use out of it with their high number of wounds.

I'd also give them a different special rule from normal Outriders. The option to trade out the spears for thunder hammers would also be nice.
Finally, I've always liked the name "Stormguard" for bike veterans.

Edited December 26, 2024 by AutumnEffect

[jaxom]

19 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

-Captain on Bike -- Rites of Battle (-1CP for a Strat per Battle Round) and Leader of the Hunt (his unit piles and consolidates 6", instead of 3")

 

-Librarian on Bike -- Psychic Hood (4++ FNP gains Psychic attacks) and Ride the Winds (his unit gains +2" to Advance and Charge rolls)

These are the only two I think could use a tweak. The 6” pile in and consolidate is very strong, especially on Bike’s ungainly bases. It might cost up the Captain too much.

 
Along those same lines, I think it could work as the Librarian ability if you gated it behind having to roll a 2 or 3+ for the ability to work.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

I've never liked the idea of a 'full' storm shield on a bike model for the veterans. It just feels like it would be a bit too unwieldy (gotta keep one hand on a handlebar after all) and steps a bit on Assault Terminator and Blade Guard's toes. I think having an Apothecary to give the unit Feel No Pain would be great and they would get a lot of use out of it with their high number of wounds.

I'd also give them a different special rule from normal Outriders. The option to trade out the spears for thunder hammers would also be nice.
Finally, I've always liked the name "Stormguard" for bike veterans.

Bikers have been riding one hand off for decades now.

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

These are the only two I think could use a tweak. The 6” pile in and consolidate is very strong, especially on Bike’s ungainly bases. It might cost up the Captain too much.

 
Along those same lines, I think it could work as the Librarian ability if you gated it behind having to roll a 2 or 3+ for the ability to work.

+D3” consolidate maybe.

it can be up to 6” or as low as 4” 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

22 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Not really. Outriders have unwieldy bases that make them impossible to move around a board with a modicum of terrain and Sanguinary Guars still have their own shenanigans. 

Bigger bases in exchange for more durability, and more lethality, with the same movement…I’d say the positives outweigh the negatives 

[HeadlessCross]

36 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Bigger bases in exchange for more durability, and more lethality, with the same movement…I’d say the positives outweigh the negatives 

More lethality? LOL no it isn't. Yeah they have a TL Bolt Rifle (yawn) but OP gave it the same exact profile as the Lance that Sanguinary Guard get, except Outriders are much less likely to make a charge due to the nature of moving them around the board. 

 

Also they're not more durable in most contexts. Sanguinary Guard have the native 2+ and more ease of accessing cover and durability strats (Infantry is always coded on that vs Mounted).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

23 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

More lethality? LOL no it isn't. Yeah they have a TL Bolt Rifle (yawn) but OP gave it the same exact profile as the Lance that Sanguinary Guard get, except Outriders are much less likely to make a charge due to the nature of moving them around the board. 

 

Also they're not more durable in most contexts. Sanguinary Guard have the native 2+ and more ease of accessing cover and durability strats (Infantry is always coded on that vs Mounted).

They have an in built +1A and -1AP on the charge, so far from the same profile.

 

in LAG on the charge the bikers are hitting 5A S8 AP-3 D2

SG 4A S8 AP-2 D2

thats a pretty big difference 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

They have an in built +1A and -1AP on the charge, so far from the same profile.

 

in LAG on the charge the bikers are hitting 5A S8 AP-3 D2

SG 4A S8 AP-2 D2

thats a pretty big difference 

Once again, that assumes charge, and I can tell you've not used Outriders if you think they'll be able to get a charge. 

 

It's basically an equivalent of trying to defend Mutilators when they were still a thing. Yeah you can be fine with chat potential, but that doesn't matter if you can't make it to combat itself. Why do you think Outriders have gotten so cheap and yet they still aren't used?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

36 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Once again, that assumes charge, and I can tell you've not used Outriders if you think they'll be able to get a charge. 

 

It's basically an equivalent of trying to defend Mutilators when they were still a thing. Yeah you can be fine with chat potential, but that doesn't matter if you can't make it to combat itself. Why do you think Outriders have gotten so cheap and yet they still aren't used?

Because they’re not very good…that’s why they haven’t been used.

3 dudes with chainswords at T5 is ok but not great.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Once again, that assumes charge, and I can tell you've not used Outriders if you think they'll be able to get a charge. 

 

It's basically an equivalent of trying to defend Mutilators when they were still a thing. Yeah you can be fine with chat potential, but that doesn't matter if you can't make it to combat itself. Why do you think Outriders have gotten so cheap and yet they still aren't used?

Because they’re not very good…that’s why they haven’t been used.

3 dudes with chainswords at T5 is ok but not great.

also I’m pretty sure they’re not for regular sale still…so scarcity would be another reason.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Why do you think Outriders have gotten so cheap and yet they still aren't used?

White Scars players say hi.

 

Anyway, Bike Characters.

Bike Lt. and Bike Apothecary aren't really doable imo.

The Lt. is problematic simply because it's already highly improbable to get 7 bikes moving around a reasonably terrained board at a decent pace, so having an Lt. hop in as well would make it nigh impossible.

As for Bike Apothecary... how are you managing to do medic stuff on a bike at 120mph? Also, unless it's another Apothecary Biologis situation you're giving up valuable buffs the Outriders really need by taking a Medic instead. Survivability means jack if you can't do anything with your longer lasting unit.

 

Now, for characters that do work, starting with a weird one: Bike Techmarine.

Rather than being in a unit, throw on Lone OP, and let it target Bikes with its heal (Read: "Mounted, excluding Thunderwolves"). Now your Techmarine can actually keep up with stuff like Speeders.

 

For Bike Captain, the extended pile in is great, but too strong at 6" (that is longer than a Rubric can walk, for context). Maybe just adding one inch would be better. Still helps, but doesn't make them essentially get another full move whenever they fight. Plus you could also argue in an extra bonus as well, maybe +1 to charge rolls? For weapons, I think you don't give them access to a Power Fist (good luck punching someone at 120mph), so keep the rest of the usual Captain stuff, but swap out the Fist for a Power "Lance" for both an innate Lance weapon and a throwback to the old Khan on Bike unit White Scars lost to Legends.

 

For Bike Librarian, obviously they need a Psychic Gun. Rather than a traditional Smite, maybe this should be a little more... Stormcaller-y? It's a bike unit, we can have a little White Scars in here. Probably a Blast weapon, maybe also Ignores Cover on the Focused profile to simulate striking from above or something. Obv Force Weapon for the Melee, probably a Sword like all Primaris Psykers (except Tigerius). As for abilities, Psychic Hood like all the other Psykers and their unique ability should simply be that, when leading a unit, you can move through terrain as though you were Infantry. With this in mind they'd probably be quite points hungry.

 

Finally, you have some kind of Vet Bikes mentioned.

I like the suggestion of Stormguard for the name, as mentioned elsewhere in here by @AutumnEffect. As for what they have tho, I have some other suggestions:

I like the Lances, they fit well and differentiate them from the (entirely unnecessary) Ravenwing Knights these would inevitably be compared to, but I don't think they should get a Banner tho, since they're pretty much just "make OC better" and if you want to point hold with bikes, Kor'sarro Khan is right over there in a Bladeguard unit giving Outriders 3OC per model. I also feel they need a better gun on their Bike itself, at least 1 or 2 per unit. I'd say Twin Plasma but Ravenwing Knights exist, so idk maybe a multi-profile Twin GL or something (or the dreaded 10th Ed Combi-Weapon that's clearly modeled with the idea of going back to different Combi-Weapon statlines in 11th). Pistols can stay as is. Storm Shields present an issue, because if you've got a hand on the controls, a hand with a Lance and a hand with a Shield you have 3 arms and are therefore either a Genestealer Cultist or Blessed by Tzeentch. Instead, I think these Stormguard Veterans should have the Shield built into the Bike itself (think like a superbike windscreen) and they should have an extra wound and an ability to reflect that fact like "Artificer Warbikes: Unit has a 4+ Invuln" or something. For their main ability tho, I feel there is an obvious answer: This unit may always Advance or Fallback then Shoot and Charge and if the Detachment they're in already does that they add 1 to Advance and Charge rolls.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Indy Techwisp

[redmapa]

You know what character is sort of missing from the Primaris line? Company Champion, that's a great niche for a bike character and Vanilla chapters don't have that assassin type of unit like an Emperors Champion, make him a Lone Op around Outriders so he can be escorted and then thrown to kill enemy characters.

[AutumnEffect]

15 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Bikers have been riding one hand off for decades now.

 

On 12/26/2024 at 4:02 AM, AutumnEffect said:

 

I've never liked the idea of a 'full' storm shield on a bike model for the veterans. It just feels like it would be a bit too unwieldy (gotta keep one hand on a handlebar after all) 

 

 

[tychobi]

Characters opening new roles seems fun? Invader ATV specialist characters?

 

Tech marine ATV with shield dome and teleporter.  Grav servo arm weapon? Special delivery! 

 

A medic ambulance ATV usable on friendly units could be interesting. 

 

An emperors champion ATV with fighting platform? Epic challenge on the go!

 

Ooo a Phobos coded battle scanner that gives the unit torrent and devastating within 6" on a 3+. Peekaboo! 

 

 

[Tacitus]

On 12/25/2024 at 1:35 PM, L30n1d4s said:

I'd say most of the Marine line has been pretty filled out, but with only a Chaplain on Bike, I think Space Marine mounted units really need some characters to lead them.

 

What do you think the Mounted Characters should be like? Here is my take:

 

-Captain on Bike -- Rites of Battle (-1CP for a Strat per Battle Round) and Leader of the Hunt (his unit piles and consolidates 6", instead of 3")

 

-Librarian on Bike -- Psychic Hood (4++ FNP gains Psychic attacks) and Ride the Winds (his unit gains +2" to Advance and Charge rolls)

 

-Lieutenant on Bike -- Tactical Precision (Lethal Hits) and Mounted Barrage (his unit gains Rapid Fire 1 for its Shooting)

 

-Swiftguard Veterans -- 3-6, one can take Banner (+1 OC), all have TLed Bolt Rifle, Storm Shield, and Relic Lances (3A melee S6 AP-2 Dmg2, Lance) and have special rule for +1A and -1AP on the charge.

 

I'd say few of the Marine Characters have been filled out.  I'd love to see a mix-n-match kit with datasheets.  For a Gravis Lieutenant take one Heavy Intercessor,  then add Parts 19 and 20 from Frame B of the Character Upgrade kit while omitting the Intercessor's left and right arm.

For the Outrider Captain, take one Outrider Sergeant Model, and add Left Arm bit 11, 12, or 14 from Frame A, Backpack piece 24, Iron Halo saddlebag 19, and (yadda yadda)

 

That plus making the 3 and only 3 units into 5 and only 5 or 5-10 depending on the unit would help.  But mostly they need a pre-fab conversion kit to turn Normal Dude Sergeant into Captain/Lieutenant/Libby/Chappy/etc Dude in special armor.  They finally gave us the best way they ever have to do so many theme lists then promptly sent half the characters we needed to do this to legends. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Librarian and Captain. Techmarine, maybe? My jury is out on an Apothecary on bike since that treads pretty hard on the Dark Angels Ravenwing if they release that character on bike marine-line wide. 

 

 

I don't think you'll see a gravis lieutenant because then GW just removed the reason to purchase and own the kit that gets you the apothecary biologis. 

 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

On 12/27/2024 at 6:15 AM, redmapa said:

You know what character is sort of missing from the Primaris line? Company Champion, that's a great niche for a bike character and Vanilla chapters don't have that assassin type of unit like an Emperors Champion, make him a Lone Op around Outriders so he can be escorted and then thrown to kill enemy characters.

 

Nope. Never happening. 

 

Treads too hard on the Dark Angels Ravenwing's small list of unique reasons for existence. 

 

 

[ThaneOfTas]

39 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

I don't think you'll see a gravis lieutenant because then GW just removed the reason to purchase and own the kit that gets you the apothecary biologis

Unless of course come 11th the Biologis is just another Apothecary, or does something else for that matter.

[Helias_Tancred]

True. They could always change the rules on an existing character in order to launch and sell a new one, lol. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

21 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Unless of course come 11th the Biologis is just another Apothecary, or does something else for that matter.

I think it would be cool for tacticus apothecaries to revive 1 model at 1W, and heal 1 model 1W.

meanwhile biologis provide a 5+++ and heal 1W per turn.

 

and maybe a strat somewhere that allows them to heal 2W per turn for a single model, or heal 1W on two separate models.

[Indy Techwisp]

On 12/28/2024 at 9:19 PM, Helias_Tancred said:

 

Nope. Never happening. 

 

Treads too hard on the Dark Angels Ravenwing's small list of unique reasons for existence. 

 

As much as I wish Ravenwing would stop existing so White Scars aren't competing against ⅙th of the Dark Angels for their entire army gimmick, I did try to avoid stepping too much on Ravenwing's design space with my own suggestions.

 

That said, they are uniquely operating within the discussed area of design, so some comparisons and/or stolen concepts are to be expected.

[Helias_Tancred]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

As much as I wish Ravenwing would stop existing so White Scars aren't competing against ⅙th of the Dark Angels for their entire army gimmick, I did try to avoid stepping too much on Ravenwing's design space with my own suggestions.

 

That said, they are uniquely operating within the discussed area of design, so some comparisons and/or stolen concepts are to be expected.

 

/shrug 

 

TWT ... 

 

 

[Tacitus]

I would also point out that a Bike Command Squad isn't - or shouldn't be - treading on Ravenwing specifically.  Its a fairly basic concept that should be available to everyone.  The Ravenwing space is plasma talon bikes.  Bikes and Terminators cooperating.  Not Bike Captains having Bike Command Squads (which isn't currently a Ravenwing thing either).