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2007: Games Workshop's Worst Year EXPLAINED (by Rick Priestley, not me)


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44 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

I'd say the Model Availability trumps all of those - despite any grumbling going on, people are still buying things faster than GW can make them. FWIW, aside from model availability, the issues you raise have always been present in my time in the hobby: People have complained about price incresases, dumbing down, loss of flavour, aggressive sales tactics, finecast etc. 

I agree that availability is at the top, with pricing a close second. No doubt, the things listed have always been an issue, I was more eluding to the DEGREE of the issues. True, people have grumbled about these things since I started, with the primary issue being GW's lack of effort in communication to the community and lack of response to issues with the game as mentioned in the main topic. But...maybe its due to the growth of social media, or maybe it is a genuine growing trend, but from my eyes, the same old grumblings have either amplified/become more pronounced than ever before. That's the odd part, to me that I would love to see analyzed down the road. Maybe GW is getting that many new players to offset the increased displeasure from oldtimers and lifers that have increasingly been more dissatisfied with GW in recent years. There has been a blip of retailers dropping GW products in the states, my local shop was fed up with them and dropped the product as well. Maybe its nothing, but it was noticeable last year. And then we have things like space marine 2 that have certainly helped to grab interest in the hobby. Or maybe those annoyed with 40k have migrated to other GW game systems, I'm not sure. There's been a lot of things to look at hence my curiosity for an in-depth analysis down the road.

10 hours ago, N1SB said:

Brother McGraw, turns out you're onto something.  My biases vs. Finecast aside, I'm sure it didn't help GW sales, but it did (help) slash costs.

 

I started with the easiest way, which was via Revenue (thanks for reminding me the year, btw).  Revenue was so flat, but that doesn't mean sales were holding steady, because prices were increasing.  So there was this gradual decline in that decade between 2007 and 2016, but it wasn't suddenly in 2012, right after Finecast's introduction.

 

What WAS interesting was what I did NOT see; nobody even mentioned Finecast in their annual reports to GW shareholders.  They spent some time talking about their paints.  I remember GW was trumpeting Finecast like it was the best thing since lasguns to us!  They also shut down their Shanghai plant around that time, I found.

 

But we know big issues like these have a lead-lag, things take years to happen.  Like how GW's 2007 crash was a result of LotR films ending in 2003.  So I looked a few years BEFORE and AFTER Finecast began, like in raw materials in inventory.  This was an interesting note and it made me think it's the impetus for Finecast:

 

image.thumb.png.5ffe22cbe67a045a6e079ff536e0d279.png

 

Before Finecast: GW generally kept £1 million of raw materials back then; remember, that was when a lot of minis were metal, not just for Made-to-Order.  It jumped to £2.445 million, so more than double, in 2009.  That was the year the Assault on Black Reach came out.  There's still a lot of those Tac Marines around, but not THAT much.  Remember, they were still hurting from 2007, they were £2 million in the red, everyone was being asked to cut costs, and now they bought that much of raw plastic?  Somebody would've said, "ya we're going to have to find a way to save money on that."

 

After Finecast: GW didn't just take their raw materials costs down from that peak back down to around £1 million, but to LESS than £100k:

 

image.thumb.png.f8de385e65c02ee498f205fde5b184f0.png

 

This was the year right before they launched AoS, so they were going to do a huge run for the AoS range, and even then they reduced their raw materials cost to less £100k.  It was then I realised why Finecast even exists.  To us, it's an insult to the sculpts, hideous dopplegangers of what the minis should be.

 

But to GW upper management with the Great Master Plan of basically cost-cutting, whoever came up with Finecast is a genius, he reduced raw materials cost to a literal fraction of what it used to be.  It's not even like corporate greed, it's like after 2007, everyone's mindset was still on just how to save money.

 

Raw materials would only go back to about £1 million in the last 2 years...when GW is selling 5x times what it used to back when Finecast was launched.

 

Brother McGraw, you were more forgiving than I was, and you're right.  I was so biased against Finecast, but you were more clear-eyed than me, with these numbers in front of me it was CLEARLY a good idea, takes away a major direct input costs, I mean you need raw materials to make minis to sell.  Growing pains, I guess.

Thanks! That is both really interesting and fantastic detective work, excellent job!

 

I'm not going to take any undue credit for having clear eyes, I just wondered how finecast fit into the story. I certainly have no more love of finecast that you do.... even if the model currently on my painting table is a finecast Captain of the Empire! 

 

I knew, or had heard at least, that the price of metal was a key factor, more so than the superior miniature quality we take for granted now. However, never in a million years did I think it was *that* big an impact on their bottom line raw materials cost..... That's a crazy difference! It's also, as you say, really interesting that it's not mentioned directly in the statements to investors. Odd.

 

Once again, great detective work to dig that out!

The £1m to £2.44m in raw materials stock could realistically have been literally the same weight of white metal - the mindi to finecast was due to the exceptionally volatile tin prices in 2008-2010 that saw the metal increase by 2-3x in price in that time (metals geologist), and saw exceptional price rises from GW

 

Weirdly, as a testament to the quality of this discussion, I think this is the first time Google has recommended a B&C page to me. Below is a grab of my news screen, well done N1SB, your topics made Google news for GW

 

Screenshot_2025-01-02-22-45-54-13.thumb.jpg.a7d26861fe380d9b66ee4916251819f7.jpg

 

 

Edited by Xenith

Brother Xenith, you're really onto something here.

 

19 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Did you find anything that would give relative inputs from LoTR, 3rd ed 40k, 6th ed fantasy, 13th crusade (+BFG/Mordheim) to the bottom line from 2000-2003?

 

 

You're right, GW does NOT break down Revenue by product line.  It all goes into this blob.  LotR trilogy's dates might be correlation, not causation.

 

While typing out a long, long answer, I kinda realised your thinking is probably the more correct one.  Here's how Rick Priestley and I described things:

 

ForBrotherXenith.thumb.jpg.8ae629539c5ad3dc4aaac72a83bf7a06.jpg

 

Blue Triangle of LotR: this upward force tacked on top of...

 

Green Block of Warhammer: this consistent core of GW's business

 

The major premise is pre- and post-LotR levels were so exactly the same.  In 2001, pre-LotR, Warhammer's core business was £90+ million.  In 2007-2008 even, post-LotR, Warhammer's core business was £110+ million, and would float around this level for the next decade of decline.

 

It looks like going from £90+ mil to £110 mil from 2001 to 2007/8 or so seems like 20% growth, right?  I looked up the inflation numbers from the Consumer Price Index, plugged in 2001 and 2008, it was just about 20%.  In other words, that wasn't growth at all, that was just GW prices going up.  Post-LotR fell to EXACTLy pre-LotR levels.

 

(Basically, any given year under normal circumstances, like not counting pandemics, inflation raises prices about 3% each year.)

 

 

+++ But the world doesn't fit so neatly into boxes like that +++

 

 

What Brother Xenith saying is, it's gonna be this bluey-greenish light ocean turquoise all blended together.  That is SO true.

 

Black Crusade (2003): The Black Crusade Codex, released in June 2003, was not technically a new edition launch, but certainly felt like a new narrative launch.  It took place in the summer, when GW launches new products, and it wasn't just Wulfen, people bought/added to armies to join or fight against the Black Crusade.

Storm of Chaos (2004): the Fantasy version of Black Crusade.  This epic between the Empire vs. Chaos, won by...Orc.  That was hilarious.

 

It's like later AoS was absolutely pushes not by its initial release, but by that Season of War campaign where ppl earned points for buying, then painting minis as much as for painting, so of course that'll drive sales.  40k has always been a big driver, so I think that's gotta have had a major impact in 2004.

 

I guess my only issue is, I wish they did something like this in 2006 or 2007, when they really needed it.

 

I think there was this LotR vacuum that was inevitable when the films stopped.  LotR fans weren't going to suddenly jump on the Warhammer Fantasy bandwagon even with the Storm of Chaos, but we can only say that in hindsight.  I'm guessing that was their intention at the time, to convert LotR fans to WhFB.

 

21 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Would you have any way of mapping GW's social media regressions onto the revenue chart?

 

 

 

Again, you're onto something here...and I guess I could check like Warhammer TV views from all these years, too.  I might, 1 day.  For now, from my secret spreadsheet, this is in fact the top lines of the 1st tab (I'm actually rebuilding the whole thing, now that I understand GW more and more).

 

Screenshot2025-01-03194706.thumb.png.d7e6470d5f8c28e7159ea21d4f30095a.png

 

2016 is when Warhammer Community initially came out, in fact, it was when GW re/started so many marketing activities.

 

All the Golden cells show when AoS launch sales were counted.

 

All the Gunmetal cells shown when 40k launch sales were counted.

 

Both AoS and 40k editions launched right when Warhammer Community, in 2017 and 2018 respectively, came out with the biggest percentage jump by a substantial margin.  I remember right before 8th, GW posted some new rule or mechanic EVERY day for a month.  No single AoS or 40k edition matched that initial jump.

 

There may be some statistical shenanigans.  It's because after the decade of decline, ANY growth would've seen huge in comparison.  In absolute terms, 8th ed grew £60+ mil, 9th by £80+ mil.  We do look at growth in % percentage terms because we're think of growing from an established base of existing customers.

 

But imho, definitely, definitely an impact.  I think all these activities add about ~10% to any launch, as people need to learn about the new product.

 

However, now that WhC and all these activities are the norm, it's just always there, you'll only notice a change if GW suddenly turned it all off again.

 

However, I don't see this so much via the lens of social media or Warhammer Community per se.  It's just all marketing, GW's style of marketing especially, because they're too frugal to buy advertising.  They're not alone, Microsoft spends very little in advertising, while Apple spends a lot.

 

Any time a company has to cut costs, marketing is the 1st thing to go for a number of reasons.  If you remember after the pandemic Spotify and Netflix fell of their peak, both announced layoffs, my Warhammer friends were speculating whom would get cut and I knew it was marketing, it always is the 1st to go.

 

That's what happened with GW.  They went so radio silent people read the Bell of Lost Souls for news, everything was just some random rumour.  The only real news was RIGHT HERE on B&C from Lady Atia, remember her!?  And Mr. Parker, and then Brother Valrak, and others I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

It's like after 2016, GW was doing what it should have been doing all along.  I understand the cost-cutting, but also that they weren't selling well because of no marketing.

14 hours ago, N1SB said:

If you remember after the pandemic Spotify and Netflix fell of their peak, both announced layoffs, my Warhammer friends were speculating whom would get cut and I knew it was marketing, it always is the 1st to go

So is this perhaps the reason for the perceived drop in volume and quality of content on WarCom that has been discussed in another thread a few weeks back? They cut staff after COVID and marketing were viewed as the most expendable?

9 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

So is this perhaps the reason for the perceived drop in volume and quality of content on WarCom that has been discussed in another thread a few weeks back? They cut staff after COVID and marketing were viewed as the most expendable?

 

I also wonder if that's why we see so little interaction and outreach now

 

I don't specifically mean in the replies to social media comments but I remember back towards the pandemic, GW was doing more outreach and support such as reaching out to people who had their collections destroyed by some of the California wildfires to replace their stuff. You also had more of an emphasis on the school club program, which I think still exists but they never mention anymore. For a while they even sent out tournament kits to FLGS with prizes and support for that

 

That all started to go quiet around the same time that WHC started to regress, which is sad because I feel like that built goodwill towards the company. But I guess with record profits for so long they don't need that

Edited by darkhorse0607
On 1/1/2025 at 3:23 AM, N1SB said:

There's a whole army of sleeper agents who wanted to be good at Warhammer, like painting a Marine like how it appeared in a White Dwarf, but set aside The Hobby when they had to go to university or starting a family.  They return to it in probably the safest, most reasonable mid-life crisis imaginable.


This was exactly me. In my case I dropped it around 18 because my girlfriend at the time thought it was dumb. I didn’t paint a single model through uni, thinking people would think it was “uncool.” Probably stopped for about 5 years 2002-2007. I picked it back up again after I’d been with my partner (now wife) for a while and was able to introduce my kids to it. If I could go back I would have kept it up because as an adult I now realise anyone who doesn’t accept something you enjoy this much isn’t worth your time.

 

Interestingly, I did actually interview to work in a GW store in summer 2005 and got offered a full time position. I turned it down because I just wanted part time to fill space before another job started. I’ve always regretted doing that  and wish I’d taken the job. The manager at the time actually told me it would be essential for me to get a handful of LOTR models and learn the rules. It was clearly massive for them at that time.

Edited by TheArtilleryman
22 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

So is this perhaps the reason for the perceived drop in volume and quality of content on WarCom that has been discussed in another thread a few weeks back? They cut staff after COVID and marketing were viewed as the most expendable?

 

13 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

I also wonder if that's why we see so little interaction and outreach now

 

I don't specifically mean in the replies to social media comments but I remember back towards the pandemic, GW was doing more outreach and support such as reaching out to people who had their collections destroyed by some of the California wildfires to replace their stuff. You also had more of an emphasis on the school club program, which I think still exists but they never mention anymore. For a while they even sent out tournament kits to FLGS with prizes and support for that

 

That all started to go quiet around the same time that WHC started to regress, which is sad because I feel like that built goodwill towards the company. But I guess with record profits for so long they don't need that

 

If it was back in 2007, your lines of thinking are exactly along what GW was thinking about.  To the point, they actually mentioned in an annual report they were closing offices in Europe in particular, I recall.  A few cycles later, GW complained sales were declining in Europe in particular...who would have thought?

 

I only used Spotify and Netflix as examples.  Even beyond the Covid era, it's like sales & marketing are non-critical roles (yes, expendable) thus often go 1st.  And it's not just these firms, you probably see this is standard practice for a lot of companies in the past and in the future.

 

From that thread a few weeks ago, I think WhC is spread too thin.  Look at how much stuff GW is pumping out still...and there's stuff we don't see.

 

I also exactly remember what you mean about things like the school club program.  Timperial Guard actually set one up in his school, our Warhammer Store manager gave him a stack of those little workbooks, "What unit did you get (buy) and why?"  We have 2 Brothers in our Warhammer Store, I was hanging out at the painting table 1 day and they kept referring to like "Mister Guard" and I realised they were his students.  That program clearly works.

 

I hear you on the record profits, but it's actually the record sales, to the point demand is outstripping GW's supply, everything is "Temporarily Not Available Online" on their website for a reason.  So remember their Revenue is about 5x times what it used to be...but GW has the same 3 plants, they just got Factory 4 approved by the Nottingham local district government.  They have a genuine supply issue, and when that happens, you'd rightly focus on your core, loyal customer base, ease up (not stop, but just take it easy) on new customer acquisition.

 

As GW was on a hiring spree, if you may recall they hired a new generation of sculptors and will continue to hire more for their new factory, I don't think they're firing the WhC group, though.  They might be spread too thin (they did 3 articles yesterday, used to be just 1 a day) AND I think they have extra scrutiny now as they're doing more and more licensed-related things, like Space Marine II and this Amazon partnership.

 

When you leak about your own product, it can be damaging.  When you leak about your partner, it's a dealbreaker.  It's the difference between dropping your own mini vs. dropping your friend's mini on the ground; you don't just break his mini, you break your friendship.  Think of how long it took for the Titus set to be announced; it was the week of release.  It must have been some agreement with Focus Entertainment/Saber Interactive, GW honoured their agreement, being honourable.

 

I think there are hidden things like that we don't see.  I'm not sure I'm a fan of the new layout, but I still like their stuff.  I think things like the Grotmas Detachments, remember how they had to coordinate with all those YouTubers to time their releases for each day?  Iirc 1 Detachment got leaked because a YouTuber put the wrong video up.  I think those are all things WhC is working on now, those chores you got to do at work, operational stuff rather than just writing.

 

3 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:


This was exactly me. In my case I dropped it around 18 because my girlfriend at the time you got it was dumb. I didn’t paint a single model through uni, thinking people would think it was “uncool.” Probably stopped for about 5 years 2002-2007. I picked it back up again after I’d been with my partner (now wife) for a while and was able to introduce my kids to it. If I could go back I would have kept it up because as an adult I now realise anyone who doesn’t accept something you enjoy this much isn’t worth your time.

 

Interestingly, I did actually interview to work in a GW store in summer 2005 and got offered a full time position. I turned it down because I just wanted part time to fill space before another job started. I’ve always regretted doing that  and wish I’d taken the job. The manager at the time actually told me it would be essential for me to get a handful of LOTR models and learn the rules. It was clearly massive for them at that time.

 

This is such great field intel, thanks for this.  The timing, it's summer 2005, the LotR decline was already starting (the last film came out December 2003), and that GW Store Manager still put emphasis on it.  And I get it, like he knew you got 40k 100% covered...but LotR was probably the gap in a lot of Hobbyists' collections.  I didn't get my Dead Men of Dunharrow until a few years ago.

 

It really does reflect the thinking at the time, like these LotR customers rushed in, we just gotta hold on to them.  Like it wasn't just the upper management.  Srsly, that manager, he's not just looking at a spreadsheet, he's ringing up those sales, it's a lot of 40k, but also a lot of LotR, then some WhFB/Specialist stuff.  I think he could tell things were changing, but at the time, it's like we just gotta sell HARDER.

 

What you shared, is like, a crystalisation of so much, from how we grew up in The Hobby to these crossovers, to the future.  I mentioned Customers 1st not like "customer is always right" but "start by counting customers, then figuring out what to sell"?  I'm starting to think there's these eras:

 

  • Heroquest/Space Crusade era (kids got into Rogue Trader via boardgames)
  • 40k and WhFB boxset era (like 2nd ed until...)
  • LotR era (customers brought in by the films)
  • WhC era (as before, imho not just WhC, but all GW marketing activities restarting in a social media generation, but WhC is a good icon for that)

 

Then we're kinda entering a new one:

 

  • Licensing era (where more people learn about Warhammer from outside than within GW's sphere of influence)

 

Like licensing has always been a thing, I see a guy painting his Marines as Blood Ravens and I'm like "oh you played Dawn of War" and he's like "how did you know!?"  But it's like that crossover from the computer game into The Hobby was a tiny fraction, like that dude is 1 of maybe 30 or 50 in our meta.  But I'm also hearing stories of how the Monday after Space Marine II came out 10 customers came in, some of them actually bought stuff.  Let's assume (hehehe, big ask here) the Amazon show is good for more than 1 Season, you'll be in a situation where more people knew Warhammer from those sources is more than those who grew up reading White Dwarf.

 

The one I'm most excited about is:

 

  • The Next Generation (wherein they followed their daddies into The Hobby)

 

GW used to say Beer & Pretzel games.  I really want to see Father & Son games.  If you want to get interesting, Father & Daughter games.

 

And of course it's not clear cut, all these blend together.  Below is my idea for a Father & Daughter game:

 

 

My idea of a Father & Daughter game, btw, is a Warphanage run by Sororitas.

 


 

It's like not all Sisters are from Militant Orders, they have many Orders of healers and, indeed, raise children, including war orphans a.k.a. Warphans.  So it's like a boardgame, where the board is the Warphanage, and you and your daughters play COOPERATIVELY (this is key, she wants to play WITH Daddy, not against Daddy) to raise the Warphans.  You have Sororitas who are like the Apothecary, the Teacher, The Disciplinarian, one is indeed The Battle Sister to watch the ramparts of the Warphanage, etc.  And then you see how many Warphans you raise to the Schola Progenium.

 

A girl might see a dollhouse, but we see this co-op operational game like Pandemic: the boardgame or something.

 

Edited by N1SB

Great thread thanks @N1SB

 

Another example of a returning/lapsed customer right here but over a different timescale and different end results (in terms of product line spend focus).

 

I am an old timer. As a teen in the 80s I played WH Fantasy Battles and then in from 1987 it was W40k RT. More of a skirmish game in those days and Games Workshop definitely felt like a GAMES company not a miniature company (which were branded Citadel anyway).

 

I played 2nd Ed as well at first and then stopped, COMPLETELY.

 

Several reasons… I grew up and “put away childish things”***. Got into a serious relationship that focused time and money on other stuff. My gaming group dispersed for similar reasons.

 

I am from the UK and lived and worked in London. In my lunch hour I would still, on occasion, pay a visit to the GW store on Oxford St for a bit of nostalgia. But I was a tad embarrassed if the staff spoke to me and I did not spend a penny on GW products between 1994(ish) to 2006.

 

What brought ME back was not the game or the miniatures but the lore, the setting, the enjoyment of the grim dark, and in actual fact it was the Eisenhorn Omnibus.

 

Browsing in the big Waterstones on Trafalgar Sq I came across a big Black Library section. Remember when book shops gad shelves and shelves of BL books? The Clint Langley cover caught my eye, the blurb piqued my interest (I was a big fan of the Ian Watson books back in the early 90s). So i bought it.

 

Since then I have spent literally £000s on GW product, be that BL books, rulebooks, codexes, art books, campaign books, Imperial Armour books, Forgeworld HH big black books, RPG books (I own every single one), basically anything that contains a decent amount of lore for any game connected to W40k (such as Necromunda). I even ebayed to collect up everything I could for the editions I had missed over 12 years.

 

But not a penny was spent on even a single model, paint pot, brush etc.

 

For ME it is all about the setting (and as my income level is now over 10 times what it was in the early 90s, I have been a lucrative returnee for GW.

 

And for several years I felt very well served. BUT there is now a real risk of losing me again (they won’t care) as the books are becoming far lighter on lore (I don’t need rules, I want more Sabbat Crusade background books, for example) and BL has taken a turn fir the worse.

 

I have gone from someone who bought most BL releases (40k/HH) to this year having bought just one! One driver for this is the big name authors having been quiet. Another is the seeming willingness to lose interest in series and leave them unresolved (eg WH Crime, various trilogies without a third book etc). Another is the shockingly poor marketing and forward look around novels (yes I did regularly scan Coming Soon and got excited about future releases).

 

But then this could end up with me eating humble pie because I AM excited by the potential of the Amazon deal and if the film(s) and TV Show(s) end up adapting existing BL books (looking at you Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin and Gaunt’s Ghosts and WH Crime and Horus Heresy and Vaults of Terra and Black Legion and and and) then I’m a sucker (erm collector) for a film tie in novel re-release!!!!
 

***Only to those looking on, inside I missed it.

 

EDIT: Because it was late and I totally missed the point I thought I was making in my verbose post…

 

I believe GW do need to see themselves as a Hobby Company rather than a Miniatures Company or a Games Company. The second two are subsets of the first. GW themselves are recognising the value they have is in their IP and the setting(s). It is THAT which attracts Amazon, Computer Game Developers, and other licensees. GW need to recognise they have different customer groups, some of whom will never buy another miniature but remain invested. I worry the bean counters only see BL as an unimportant side line rather than a gateway/pathway to pull customers (back) in.

Edited by DukeLeto69
8 hours ago, N1SB said:

40k and WhFB boxset era (like 2nd ed until...)


Me. Started in 1996 in 2nd edition. First models were metal Eldar aspect warriors.

 

8 hours ago, N1SB said:

The one I'm most excited about is:

 

  • The Next Generation (wherein they followed their daddies into The Hobby)

 

GW used to say Beer & Pretzel games.  I really want to see Father & Son games.  If you want to get interesting, Father & Daughter games.


This is my family now! My kids have all been into 40K, my middle son the most (he even has an account and has posted some of his stuff on this forum!) and my daughter the least, but she does have some lovely looking Necrons. 
 

8 hours ago, N1SB said:

I also exactly remember what you mean about things like the school club program.


Never got involved in the GW one but I did run one for a short time in the first school I worked at. I managed to get funding to buy a copy of Assault on Black Reach and some paints. I didn’t work there long though and I doubt anyone carried it on after I left. That I think is part of the problem with these things. If you don’t have the teaching staff who are into the hobby nobody is going to sustain it.
 

My eldest son was in a Warhammer club at high school because the RE teacher was nuts on the hobby. Really great guy. My middle son at a different high school actually turned the board games club into a Warhammer one and got half a dozen of his friends into the hobby. That’s bravery, if I’d been the only one into it I wouldn’t have had the nerve to try and get friends involved.

 

The biggest barrier I think these days is the cost. We used to complain about prices in the 90s but these days the prices are so sky high. Even if they are in line with inflation, the psychological factor of seeing fifty quid on a box instead of twenty, or a hundred instead of fifty is massive, and kids don’t (usually) have that kind of cash. It is fascinating that GW has managed to do so well in recent years with the cost of living squeeze.

 

This worst year ever coincides roughly with the end of the mail order troll bits service. Just an observation. 

On 1/4/2025 at 11:44 PM, N1SB said:

This is such great field intel, thanks for this.  The timing, it's summer 2005, the LotR decline was already starting (the last film came out December 2003), and that GW Store Manager still put emphasis on it.  And I get it, like he knew you got 40k 100% covered...but LotR was probably the gap in a lot of Hobbyists' collections.  I didn't get my Dead Men of Dunharrow until a few years ago.

 

I think it was part of the licencing deal with New Lone/Tolkien that GW had to treat the LoTR game as one of their core games (possibly after seeing how specialist games were treated?), the third leg on the tripod and promote it as such. 

 

I'm sure Rick et al tracked model production so *know* it was LoTR models driving those sales (I hope so anyway), however it's uncanny how well that chart  aps onto the lifecycle of 3rd edition 40k. I recall theold anecdotal evidence/adage from GW that they sold more space marines alone than all of WFB, and I would assume the same holds for LoTR. 

 

In 3rd edition we had 2 absolutely massive global campaigns, Armageddon (forgot this the first time) and Eye of Terror, which were incredible marketing. They released the Black Templars (my store had more BT players than LoTR players), followed by the CSM3.5 codex, where everyone bought a new Chaos army, then the Eye of Terror Global Campaign.

 

Basically it was year after year of massive releases for 40k, compounded with the LoTR gains. However I feel that many would have just subscribed to the magazine that came with all of GW's LOTR models for a fraction of the cost. If GW were tracking models produced, then LOTR would look like a winner.

 

Actually, thinking about it, this period also included Inquisitor. So we have this magical period from 1999 - 2003 with a massive release every year, new armies, new games systems:

3rd ed 40k; 6th ed fantasy; mordheim; inquisitor; battlefleet gothic; LoTR 1-3; Eye of Terror; Armageddon; [cityfight]; CSM3.5; Black Templars; Tau; Grey Knights.

 

There was a very fast pace of releases, across a wide range of systems, they innovated, and gave people new things.  and it led to significant growth...and it kind of looks like GW have realised that and have been doing that since 2016 - AoS; 8th ed; necromunda; blood bowl; aeronautica; titanicus; 9th ed; heresy, AoS2/3/4; Old World; LotR new edition; Legiones Imperialis; Underworlds; warcry; genestealers; harlequins; squats.

 

Screenshot 2025-01-06 083222.jpg

 

Post 2004 we then get into ill-will caused by the retcon of black crusade, the poor ending to storm of chaos, poorly received (read boring) 4th edition, then the lck of innovation and support for specialist games. This is all internal stuff, but we also then get external threats like competition from Warmachine etc. 

 

 

 

Edited by Xenith

Both Brothers @DukeLeto69 and @Xenith Raise valid points about the period under discussion.  IMHO GW consistently undervalues their IP and its hold on many in the hobby.  No matter what attracted you to W40K, be you a hard core gamer, painter or reader coming in through BL or the codices, the lore matters to some degree.

When you play it’s with ‘your’ boys.  Their backstory might affect who/what you paint, etc.  This is why there are schisms within hobbyists when they do things like changing the lore behind the Black Templars for instance.

 

I remember the excitement running through the community (both locally and online) for the Armageddon & 13th Black Crusade campaigns.  We avidly played games to add to the tallies (and just as avidly followed online how a crazy bunch of players managed to skew the system to produce a win for Chaos - not what GW planned I’m sure).

More importantly, I remember the general disappointment (and some anger) when GW reneged on the result and the lore backflipped.  Several of my playing group at the time left the hobby for a time as a result.  It left a bad taste even while we were being swamped with some great minis and games at the time.  It didn’t help that most of my circle thought that 4th Edition was a bit of a dud.

 

The 2004 - 2008 period also saw general stagnation from GW during 4th ed - Armies like Blood Angels and Dark Eldar went this whole edition without an updateCoincendetally (?) you begin to see a small uptick in 2008 when 5th ed is released, however we then see a drop in releases in 2009, as well as a retreat from social media after backlash from people regarding some fluff.

 

I made this quickly also, using release dates from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_(Warhammer_40,000)

 

I believe codex Eye of Terror was released June 2003, and the global campaign was that summer, so would feature in the 2004 financials? After that, GW go back to their usual...2 codexes per year. That seems insane in this day and age. Imagine waiting 6 months to hear about the next army to be released. 

 

image.thumb.png.0db4a09f7be46a21d9482386b202b44f.png

On 1/4/2025 at 11:44 PM, N1SB said:

 

GW has the same 3 plants, they just got Factory 4 approved by the Nottingham local district government. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

My idea of a Father & Daughter game, btw, is a Warphanage run by Sororitas.

 


 

It's like not all Sisters are from Militant Orders, they have many Orders of healers and, indeed, raise children, including war orphans a.k.a. Warphans.  So it's like a boardgame, where the board is the Warphanage, and you and your daughters play COOPERATIVELY (this is key, she wants to play WITH Daddy, not against Daddy) to raise the Warphans.  You have Sororitas who are like the Apothecary, the Teacher, The Disciplinarian, one is indeed The Battle Sister to watch the ramparts of the Warphanage, etc.  And then you see how many Warphans you raise to the Schola Progenium.

 

A girl might see a dollhouse, but we see this co-op operational game like Pandemic: the boardgame or something.

 

Genuine curiosity here.... Why is this point made so pertinently? (It's not the first time it has been emphasised.)

The site GW are building the factory on already had a factory on it and it is in an industrial estate. Notts City Council have literally zero reason to object, it would never have been a barrier. 

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