Would you like to see a dedicated 40k Badab War game setting?

[skylerboodie]

Once all first-born marines have been phased out by Primaris and out of print for a few years, I expect they'll be brought back ala 'The Old World' in some new setting between 30K & 40K, so they can sell a whole bunch of old models to new and nostalgic hobbyists; the Badab War is a good example of a time period they could pick for this, or maybe an Age of Apostasy setting.

[roryokane]

On 1/3/2025 at 6:32 PM, Evil Eye said:

Whilst I'm not sure a full standalone system needs to be made, having HH expanded into a "historical battles" game for 40K, with updates of Mk.7 and Castraferrum dreadnoughts and support for Xenos would be very nice, and the Badab War would be the perfect jumping off point for pushing beyond the Heresy itself- in fact it'd actually get me back into modern GW rules if they did that. They could pull a TOW and release new kits where appropriate whilst reissuing older sculpts to fill gaps.

I want to live in a pre-Primaris world forever, so this would be PERFECT for me! :P

[WrathOfTheLion]

As others have said, it could work really well as an expansion for 30k. Some of my friends and I are toying with the idea of doing Badab War armies using the 30k sculpts and rules, would really just need to add a couple of datasheets and iron a few things out.

 

It would be a lot more convenient if they published a campaign book for it though. I think it'd be a great decision, make it use the existing 30k line and with one book and a couple of resin models off a bunch of us go to spend a lot of money again.

[LameBeard]

I like the ideas here.

 

I think if GW were smart then it would use Badab as a solution to the problem of the bloated marine codex.

 

Split Codex Marines into two: Primaris and Firstborn, release Badab campaign book as cover for why there is a ‘historical’ marine list, take a bit of the sting out for all the people sad to lose their firstborns.
 

That would make it a 40k spin-off (where I might prefer 30k spin-off, where fan versions already exist) and give them options to (say) re-release mk vii rescaled. Which they will if they think there is money in it. They like money.

 

 

 

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 1/3/2025 at 3:59 PM, W.A.Rorie said:

2 of my Favorite Chapters served in the Badab War, Raptors and Exorcists. So having a game based around it, may sound cool but I don't think it would be beneficial as it is more marine on marine action. War of the Beast or the Great Crusade/ Great Scouring are better options, like others have said as more forces outside of marines can be played.

 

What would be nice is setting up the Badab War as a Necromunda style game, where each of the Chapters got specific rules, and you had multiple options to build a team. Unlike Kill Team, where your army options is locked.

 

What I think will happen is we will get a campaign book for Legion Imperials

Necromunda style meaning no vehicles and low model count? Then do Kill-Team instead with appropriately painted squads. 

[Xin Ceithan]

On 1/3/2025 at 5:01 PM, ZeroWolf said:

A expansion for LI (or even Battlefield Gothic if the rumours about its resurrection turn out to be true) would help GW side step the thorny issue of Mk7 vs Primaris which i think they're on purposely running from.

If I wanted to sell a return of Battlefleet Gothic to GW, I think I’d go along similiar lines. 
Start  it as an expansion to the HH line if that is financially doing well to expand sales with tie in models ( Breachers!) to boost sales and an excuses to not having to introduce non imperial vessels and keep production values low.

 

Then put out extension books and releases for the Badab War along with some goodies ( Transfers, Shoulder pads) and a box / starter set with Astartes Strike Cruisers and such.

 

Given the popularity of both Gothic and Badab War, I’d assume it would fly of the shelves 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Necromunda style meaning no vehicles and low model count? Then do Kill-Team instead with appropriately painted squads. 

I won't lie, a Kill Team level game with support for "middleweight" units (smaller monsters and light vehicles like Carnifexes, Dreadnoughts etc) would be cool.

[Marshal Rohr]

A reprint of the Badab War duology with updated points and instructions to use the Age of Darkness ruleset would be awesome. 

[Xenith]

GW did this in 200...9 - 2010 and it sold very well, leading to them giving the Horus Heresy the green light.

 

Realistically, we don't need another marine v marine game system. A Badab War mission book for 40k or HH would be fine. 

[Marshal Rohr]

After the Heresy gets more established kit wise it would be a smart move to release a compendium of rules from the old Imperial Armor books (including Cyraxus). The movement to legends for some old world factions has done nothing to decrease their representation at Old World events in the UK. 

[Cleon]

3 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I won't lie, a Kill Team level game with support for "middleweight" units (smaller monsters and light vehicles like Carnifexes, Dreadnoughts etc) would be cool.

Man, that really hit like punch in the gut - I remember Carnifexes being one of the scariest things you could encounter....

 

I guess I'll just go be old over here.

[Evil Eye]

45 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Man, that really hit like punch in the gut - I remember Carnifexes being one of the scariest things you could encounter....

 

I guess I'll just go be old over here.

You and me both; I more meant in terms of size rather than actual threat per se (especially if you base them as the Hive Mind intended on 60mm rounds). But yes, power creep is a horrible thing.

[jaxom]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:03 PM, WrathOfTheLion said:

As others have said, it could work really well as an expansion for 30k. Some of my friends and I are toying with the idea of doing Badab War armies using the 30k sculpts and rules, would really just need to add a couple of datasheets and iron a few things out.

 

It would be a lot more convenient if they published a campaign book for it though. I think it'd be a great decision, make it use the existing 30k line and with one book and a couple of resin models off a bunch of us go to spend a lot of money again.

Badab pushed a lot of the HH armour marks in their books. If anything, I’d say it makes sense as another no Mk7 setting.

[Matcap86]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

Badab pushed a lot of the HH armour marks in their books. If anything, I’d say it makes sense as another no Mk7 setting.

 

There's actually quite a lot of mk7 in the Badab War books. TBH I'd love a remake/rescale like the mk6 got for the mk7s.

[WrathOfTheLion]

3 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

There's actually quite a lot of mk7 in the Badab War books. TBH I'd love a remake/rescale like the mk6 got for the mk7s.

It might be something we get if they move into the scouring at some point. I'd love to see them do Badab as well. Especially if they do a more stable 3E 30k that lasts a good long time, to me it's quite nice for projects like this to have some longevity vs. the chaotic nature of 40k.

[Brother Tyler]

To answer a revised version of the basic question posed by the topic title...

 

I would love to see Games Workshop provide continuing support for the Badab War [and other "historical" settings].

 

I don't see this concept being viable as a separate settings/rules system, however. While the Badab War is similar to the Horus Heresy (and a prospective Scouring, which I would also love), it is distinct from the Horus Heresy in that the units are "modern" (albeit pre-Primaris). From a rules development standpoint, and from a marketing standpoint (i.e., reaching a wider audience), it would make much more sense to support "historical" settings as expansions to the main Warhammer 40,000 game. After all, more people play that game than the Age of Darkness game, so the transition to the "historical" setting would be easier and probably more profitable for GW.

 

No matter which system GW chooses to use for a theoretical Badab War, the key limitation with any "historical" setting that involves the Adeptus Astartes is the continued (or renewed) availability of Mk 6, 7, and 8 power armour and other firstborn units (bikes, transports, tanks, etc.). This problem doesn't really apply to the other factions, for the most part. As long as GW has an appetite for creating those later (pre-Primaris) marks of power armour and units, the Badab War and other Adeptus Astartes historical events are tenable. There are considerable costs (and opportunity costs) in making these models available, however, not to mention the impacts on other lines of models (i.e., GW's resources are finite, so creating more models for one things means fewer models elsewhere). Most of the moulds for the firstborn units are getting old, and creating new moulds is very costly. While modern digital sculpting and additive manufacturing methods are very helpful, there is still considerable cost in getting new moulds for new models (and who wouldn't want properly upscaled firstborn Adeptus Astartes models?).

 

I could see non-Adeptus Astartes historical campaigns being easier for GW to support. With the Adeptus Astartes, however, I think we're far more likely to see campaigns set in the Era Indomitus, where GW can focus on the current line of Primaris models.

 

Still, if GW provided renewed support for the Badab War, I would most likely plonk my hard-earned cash down on the counter for as much as I could afford.

[ThePenitentOne]

I'd like to see a many flavours of Eldar game, or a BSF style Commorragh game, or an Agents based BSF. I'd also settle for an Age of Apostasy game/ campaign setting.

 

Basically, we need EVERYTHING that ISN'T Marines Marines Marines more than we need ANYTHING that is Marines.

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I'd like to see a many flavours of Eldar game, or a BSF style Commorragh game, or an Agents based BSF. I'd also settle for an Age of Apostasy game/ campaign setting.

 

Basically, we need EVERYTHING that ISN'T Marines Marines Marines more than we need ANYTHING that is Marines.

I mean, most of us agree that we don't need another separate game, but some sort of expansion/campaign book for an existing system. There's a reason with it mostly being historical marine vs marine many have gravitated towards 30k being the basis for such an expansion.

 

That said, an Age of Apostasy setting would be quite cool, I'd love to see that. But I think Badab/Scouring are much easier settings to add without much effort. Especially that it'd be likely SDS would do both settings, I think it'd be difficult for them to do much in the realm of Age of Apostasy without some larger changes in GW's internal workings.

Edited January 13 by WrathOfTheLion

[MoriyaSchism]

On 1/3/2025 at 7:32 PM, Evil Eye said:

Whilst I'm not sure a full standalone system needs to be made, having HH expanded into a "historical battles" game for 40K, with updates of Mk.7 and Castraferrum dreadnoughts and support for Xenos would be very nice, and the Badab War would be the perfect jumping off point for pushing beyond the Heresy itself- in fact it'd actually get me back into modern GW rules if they did that. They could pull a TOW and release new kits where appropriate whilst reissuing older sculpts to fill gaps.

16 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

A reprint of the Badab War duology with updated points and instructions to use the Age of Darkness ruleset would be awesome. 

I'd love to see a mix of both. A bit of miniature support by bringing back some of the classic style vehicles, chapter specific upgrade kits, old dreadnoughts and weapon patterns to go with the reprinted and reworked Age of Darkness versions of the two books. I'm not sure how I feel about new infantry miniatures because I prefer the new scale that came with the Primaris update. After spending a lot of time modifying Primaris and new Plague Marines to look like classic Space Marines I don't think I ever want to see more Marine infantry miniatures in the old scale or to see 3rd Edition Marine units in the new Horus Heresy scale. I just don't like how the new Horus Heresy Marine models have tiny helmets and hands compared to classic Marines. At this point I just want 32mm scale Tortuga style classic Marines. If they absolutely had to do new miniatures I'd love to see a Tyrant's Legion infantry set/upgrade kit for the modern Guard range or a generic militia kit to represent some of the other human forces from the Badab War.

Edited January 13 by MoriyaSchism

[LameBeard]

I assume the original (Rogue Trader?) Badab War background was invented as an excuse to allow marine vs marine battles - ie a precedent in the current(ish) timeline that gave a reason for players who both had marines (the most popular choice) to fight.

 

Which means the logical extension is a Primaris vs Primaris war, since this must happen at tournaments all the time. “The second Badab War - some chapters never learn”.

Edited January 13 by LameBeard

[Marshal Rohr]

14 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I'd like to see a many flavours of Eldar game, or a BSF style Commorragh game, or an Agents based BSF. I'd also settle for an Age of Apostasy game/ campaign setting.

 

Basically, we need EVERYTHING that ISN'T Marines Marines Marines more than we need ANYTHING that is Marines.

 

 

I sure hope all six of you Dark Eldar fans live close enough together you could actually play WarHellraiser together!

[Xin Ceithan]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I sure hope all six of you Dark Eldar fans live close enough together you could actually play WarHellraiser together!

Well, if all else fails, we will always have… the opportunity for a narrative game in the bowels of the lower forum 

[Doghouse]

I personally have never actually met anyone that gamed in that setting in person, (back in RT or modern Forgeworld 40k) but the lore is very interesting especially after FW expanded it with the black books. In my personal experience it was originally more of a lore and Chapters article although I have seen lots of great models and armies that it has inspired though. At this time in my own circles back around 1990 most stuck to the Chapters in the RT book so it was fun to see more examples.

 

If I were to do it I'd probably use the Pride of the Legion detachment rules from Heresy, it's a bit chop and change as to who fought who and where though as the Loyalists were subbed in and out to keep up the attrition rather than it being a Heresy style conflict.

 

It was quite a recent conflict starting in 904.M41 if I remember rightly so a lot of the Heresy vehicles might not be around. I think the easiest way might be to use 5th edition and just go old school.

 

Might make for a really good pdf on the Warcom page giving people the chance to use Legends units again if they were to do it in 10th.

[ThePenitentOne]

4 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I sure hope all six of you Dark Eldar fans live close enough together you could actually play WarHellraiser together!

People say stuff like this, but there's a real chicken and egg thing that people deny.

 

If DE had been a starting army in every boxed set for the past 40 years, they'd sell.

 

Instead, they had all of their characters removed, and all of the options removed from the few who remain, so they don't sell.

 

Now don't get me wrong; I'm not saying it's ALL chicken/egg; Space Marines ARE appealing because a) relatable (ish) and b) easier to paint than many other factions. Even if they'd only been in 30-50% of launch boxes, they'd still be popular, and possibly even still the most popular, but the margins would be closer, the ranges would be closer to equal, and both of those things would be good for the game.

[Marshal Rohr]

The just did a whole game system of beautiful bespoke warbands that attempted to explore the non-big armored facets of a universe and then killed it in spite of being massively popular. We can talk about if it’s good for the hobby or not, but it’s clearly not what the MBAs running the show want.