New Index List

[NKirkham24]

Hi all,

 

I’ve got my first game in Monday with the re-released index.

 

I’m waiting on a delivery before I can make a Talonstrike killteam, so the list is as follows:

 

Indomitor - 3x melta, 3x flamestorm aggressors, 4x heavy Intercessors 

Gravis Captain - Beacon Angelis

 

Indomitor - 2x melta, 1x bolt aggressors, 7x heavy Intercessors incl 2x Heavy Bolters

 

Veterans - xenophase & combi, 3x HTH, 4x shield and power weapon, 2x frag cannons

Judiciar - Thief of Secrets

Corvus Blackstar

 

Redemptor - plasma, Gatling, bolsters, icarus

 

Fortis - TH & hand flamer on Sgt, 2x Intercessors, 3x Pyreblasters, 4x Hellblasters

Librarian

 

Veterans - 2x shield & Bolter, frag cannon, infernus, xenophase

Watchmaster - Tome of the Ectoclades

 

Veterans - 2x shield & Bolter, frag cannon, infernus, xenophase

Artemis

 

Artemis and the Librarian were late additions, filling out points.
 

The small Veteran squads are to utilise the up & down strat for points and mission play

 

10 man Veterans and Judicar are in the Corvus, Gravis captain and friends are in deep strike. 
 

Looking forward running them. Any suggestions on the list?

[W.A.Rorie]

Interesting list. Curious how it goes, please keep us informed. 

[Dr. Clock]

My main suggestion is just to scratch together more thunder hammers obvs. It's the reason to take those for sure...

 

I just tried my first plasma/missile Fortis team and they did admirably - Infernus build is pretty dang cool tho! Librarian is a cool trick in there too : )

 

Other than that it's certainly somewhat character heavy, though dropping a bunch to get Talonstrike seems like a strong choice.

 

You may find that you're a unit or two short just on pure action economy after that tho... It's easy to forget that you should plan for at least 2 units a turn to do nothing at all in terms of damage... and at present it just won't feel great to give up any of your units' offense.

 

Thus, I think you could do worse than focusing on just like 3-4 'full teams' and making everything else cheaper trading pieces so you can spread out more for mission play, and to lose fewer attacks when doing actions. Like, be prepared for the possibility that instead of 1x10-man Talonstrike, 1x5 JPI and 2x3 Inceptors will just get you far more success from sheer coverage.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

Immediately dump the Corvus. Yes it's the coolest looking Marine flyer, but none of the Marine flyers are any good, let alone even mediocre. 

[Indy Techwisp]

If you could free up 20pts from elsewhere, you could replace the Corvus Blackstar with a Spectrus Killteam.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

If you could free up 20pts from elsewhere, you could replace the Corvus Blackstar with a Spectrus Killteam.

They could probably just lose the Librarian. 4++ is fun and all but otherwise Librarians don't contribute much outside the Librarius lists I see perk up online right now. 

[NKirkham24]

I’m definitely planning the Talonstrike once I’ve got it built and painted.

 

The Corvus is in for anti tank, I know it’s not great but not got too much else anti tank wise. 
 

I would like some Eliminators for the Spectrus team before using that.

 

And it would definitely be the Librarian and Artemis being dropped at some point, they’re more filler at this point 

[HeadlessCross]

The Corvus ain't it when it comes to anti-anything, really. I'd sooner take 2-3 Firestrike Turrets, and those have a LOT of issues. 

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, NKirkham24 said:

in for anti tank

It is essentially combat ineffective. ~1.5 anti-tank shots is effectively no anti-tank. With the godhammer treatment for 2 shots it might be a threat... So I use it as a glorified Rhino to send a kill team on to an objective, but it always feels about 50 points overcosted. 2x Rhinos for projection/protection for kill teams will generally be better, and cheaper!

 

It's still my vanity unit tho, so I respect the choice to keep it in even if you accept it's sub-par.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[NKirkham24]

I’ve not played it yet in 10th, not had a game with the limited data sheets from the Imperial Agents codex, so the reborn index is the first play for me.

 

Definitely a vanity thing atm, and yes, the anti tank is sub optimal of course, but like you say, it’s rhino capacity with a few more guns.

 

I’ll probably ditch it after a couple of games but I still want to try it, mainly because it’s a great model.

 

I wouldn’t mind getting a Biologis and adding it to the other Indomitor squad, I think lethal would be very nice on this heavy bolt rifles

Edited January 4 by NKirkham24

[HeadlessCross]

18 hours ago, NKirkham24 said:

I’ve not played it yet in 10th, not had a game with the limited data sheets from the Imperial Agents codex, so the reborn index is the first play for me.

 

Definitely a vanity thing atm, and yes, the anti tank is sub optimal of course, but like you say, it’s rhino capacity with a few more guns.

 

I’ll probably ditch it after a couple of games but I still want to try it, mainly because it’s a great model.

 

I wouldn’t mind getting a Biologis and adding it to the other Indomitor squad, I think lethal would be very nice on this heavy bolt rifles

To say it's Rhino capacity is misleading. Rhinos themselves are 75 points. You're paying well above twice the cost for a total of 3-4 guns. 

 

Also the Heavy Bolt Rifles already have Lethal Hits. The Biologis only adds to melee and the Melta/Aggressor range weapons. That's not worth 70 points. 

[NKirkham24]

Well Monday has been and gone and the first game is in the bag.

 

I played Ultramarines running the new Librarius Conclave, though I don't think he optimised his list fully for this (only 2 Librarians). Off the top of my head, his list was the following:

 

Guilliman

Ventris & 5 Assault Intercessors

5 Intercessors

2x 5 man Scouts

Phobos Librarian & 5 Infiltrators

Phobos Lieutenant (lone op guy)

3 Outriders

Ballistus

Repulsor

10 Hellblasters (in the Repulsor)

Librarian & 10 Sternguard (in Deep strike)

3 Plasma Inceptors

 

My list was as above. 

 

We played Linchpin with Smoke & Mirrors, Sweeping Engagement deployment. Both of us went Tactical, I was the defender and went first. 

 

Turn One

 

I drew extend and area denial. The Corvus pushed up on the left flank, dropping the 10 man Vets & Judiciar to get me Extend, and I binned Area Denial at the end of the turn, as I didn't want to commit an Indomitor to the centre of the board and allow them to be shot up/charged T1.

 

His T1, he got Sabotage, which his scouts on my right got for him, and Engage, which he got for 2VP. His firepower into Artemis' Vet squad bounced off the shields (Half his Hellblasters and the Repulsor pot shots), but the Ballistus managed to kill the Corvus - speed aside, I get what you're all saying about it being trash. I rolled poorly, but even so...

 

Turn Two

 

I drew Sabotage and Defend, achieving both at the end of my opponents turn. Watchmaster & 5 Vets on my right went into the Scouts, but fluffed their lines and stayed locked in combat. The Redemptor killed half the Hellblasters, followed up by the Indomitor (without Captain) stepped up and rinsing the remaining Hellblasters (the fire on death is annoying), with the Beacon Angelis squad dropping next to them. and also lighting up the Hellblasters and Repulsor. In the end, the Hellblasters were removed, and the Repulsor sat on 1W. The Heavy Bolters in the Indomitor team did some real work, as did the Lethal hits (as noted above, no Biologis required).

 

The combat vets munched through the 1 remaining Scout and the Outrider squad on my left. My Indomitor charged the Repulsor, and punched through the final wound to finish it off, but Guilliman heroically intervened and smashed 6 gravis marines. 

 

His Turn Two, he got Behind Enemy Lines and Establish Locus - dropping his Inceptors in on my left for Behind, Artemis and pals overwatched and killed two. Unfortunately he still got the points, but I was impressed by the 4+ anti-infantry flamer and dev wounds from Artemis. For a last minute cheap points filler, him and an Infernus gave a small unit some overwatch punch. 

 

He moved up some Ventris and pals for Establish in the centre, his Infiltrators and Libby moved up my right to go fight the Watchmaster, who'd woken up and decided to kill off the Scouts. On my left, he tank shocked with the Ballistus but didnt do much, before I punched back reducing it to 2W. His Sternguard blob arrived this turn, and with the Librarians enhancement, obliterated the Dreadnought. 

 

Guilliman killed off the remaining Gravis Marines.

 

Turn Three

 

I got Overwhelming force and Establish Locus - Guilliman was in the centre, and I didnt have anyone in the oppo DZ, so I binned this at the end of the turn. Overwhelming force was easy enough, with my Vets killing the damaged Ballistus. The Indomitor and Captain, shot into Ventris and pals, with the Eradicators into Guilliman, but only killed a couple of intercessors. The Fortis team killed some Sternguard, while Artemis and pals joined in, killing more.

 

The only charge was the Indomitor and Captain into Ventris and friends, who the Captain almost singlehandedly removed. Guilliman again intervened, and killed a load of Gravis in return, there was just no way of me avoiding him.

 

He drew containment and cleanse - he picked up 6 for containment and didnt score Cleanse but kept hold of it. 

Guilliman killed the remaining Gravis, leaving the Captain alone, the Intercessors shot into the Watchmaster and friends, leaving him alone and the few remaining Sternguard moved into the centre. On the right the Watchmaster, now alone fought the Infiltrators & Phobos Librarian, but was at a bit of a stalemate.  

 

As Artemis was on the left objective, I picked up the combat Vets with Judiciar, using Site to Site.

 

Turn Four

I drew Storm Hostile and No Prisoners. Shooting took down the last Inceptor, and the Fortis killed more Sternguard but it was then over to charges. The Combat Vets made it out of deepstrike into the 5x Intercessors and turned them into paste (Heavy Thunder Hammers ftw!) claiming Storm Hostile. Using the Precision mission tactic, the Watchmaster killed the Phobos Librarian, maxing No Prisoners. 

 

Guilliman killed the Gravis Captain and consolidated back to the centre objective. 

 

IN his T4, he drew Defend Stronghold, alongside Cleanse. 

 

His Phobos LT cleansed one objective, while his Lib +2 remaining Sternguard did the Centre. Guilliman went and charged my Fortis team on my home objective, killing all 10! Only the Librarian survived, (big whiff on the saves...). Embarassingly, the Watchmaster, died to the final Infiltrator.

 

Turn Five

I had nothing to stop his Defend, so it was on to my cards, with only Artemis, a Librarian and the Combat Vet + Judiciar left. I drew Cleanse and Marked for Death. Artemis and the Vets were in position for Cleanse. Annoyingly, if my Watchmaster had survived (rolled triple 1 on his saves), he could have cleansed and freed up my Vets to finish him Sternguard for MfD. 

 

As it was, I fell back with the Libby and just stood still with the others.

 

Finally, he drew Extend and Area Denial. He maxed both of these, for a big 10 on the primary.

 

This took him to 68 to my 72, a win for Deathwatch! 

 

It was a really good game, an absolute bloodbath! 

 

I had 3 units left, 7 Vets with the Judiciar, Artemis & a Librarian, he had the Phobos LT, 2 Sternguard with a Librarian, 1 Infiltrator and Guilliman.

 

 

 

 

[NKirkham24]

Game 2 tonight appt the local club.

 

The list is going unchanged for now bar minor tweaks within the Veteran squads.

 

Talonstrike team is current mid-build/paint and isn’t ready til at least next week, maybe the week after.

 

I’ll let you know how it goes

[NKirkham24]

Game 2, I played the new Custodes detachment. 
 

2x Telemon 

3x Achillus 

2x Galatus

Calladius Gravis tank

Sisters

Eversor Assassin

Caladus Assassin

 

The game was last Monday, so details are scarce compared to last time out. 
 

Didn’t go too well, finished 80-51. 
 

Takeaways, Corvus was trash again (I know). 
 

Fortis and Libby did little to nothing again.

 

Judiciar and combat blob are great, Indomitor KT are great.

 

The list is staying predominantly the same.

 

Fortis KT and Librarian, along with the Corvus are going, being replaced by Talonstrike KT and a Brutalis dreadnought (on loan from my Ultramarines).

 

I’ve still got 6 Killteams, down to 3 characters, and the 2 Dreads now. I love a Dreadnought.

 

Still don’t know if there is enough anti tank, but Indomitor KT can do some good work on that front.
 

I’m heading to the club tomorrow and should have my Talonstrike team ready, so will have a new list to try this time.

[NKirkham24]

Game 3 yesterday against T'au.

 

I don't know all the fishmen particularly well, he was running Kauyon and his list did include the following:

 

Shadowsun

Commander + 3 Crisis Suits

Devilfish - Breachers

Pathfinders

Infantry (not sure which) with Ethereal

Fire Warriors

Broadside

Riptide

Stormsurge

Stealth suits

 

I has the list detailed above with the changes mentioned.

 

We played Terraform on a Sweeping Engagement map, with Inspiring Leadership (pointless really.)

 

I ended up losing 57-80, I was down 10 on primary and 13 on secondaries. 

 

I've never played Terraform before, so definitely learnt lessons on that front, he managed to terraform an objective in T2, and that bagged him 8 points through the game, vs me not getting one til T5. 

 

Secondaries definitely hinged massively on some very poor rolls on my part. He used his breachers on an Indomitor kill team, I managed to fail about 18 4+ saves which eventually meant the unit died and gave up cull the horde. Similarly last his T4, Dreadnought on my home objective couldn't roll a save and died to lose me 4VP for primary and 3VP for Defend. T5m my Watchmaster gave up assassinate, I needed to roll 2 saves from 3, managed to fail all 3 so even a CP was pointless. Law of averages would have meant he stayed alive, saving him scoring 5 VP, at which point I'd have been in touching distance. 

 

Might not have been enough to swing it, but we know that having half an Indomitor squad with the Eradicators in there could be a big difference.

 

The Talonstrike team did really well, happy with how they performed. 

 

I think my biggest thing now is timing. I need to utilise Adaptive tactics and the Mission Tactics, along with double oath little earlier so I can maximise my outputs and hopefully cripple the opponent. 

 

I think I will keep the list, bar some future tweaks to the make up of the Indomitor KTs (i need more Gravis bodies for a couple of multi meltas, another heavy bolter etc. 

[NKirkham24]

Game 4 vs Space Wolves on Monday. 

 

I took the same list as against T'au. I do want to swap the Brutalis for some Terminators, which are currently on the way, but it'll be a couple of weeks before they're tabletop ready. 

 

The Space Wolves guys is certainly a more narrative player, so it was an odd list, certainly not optimised.

 

From memory his list was:

 

10x shooty Terminators w/ Librarian

5x Assault Terminators w/ Captain & Arjac

5x shooty Terminators

2x 5 Wolf Scouts

Leviathan Dread (grav and storm cannon)

Astraeus

 

He was running this as Vangaurd Spearhead.

 

We played Terraform on Dawn of War, with prepared positions - only effecting my Veteran teams (it didn't come up once).

 

Ultimately, this was a convincing win for me, 96-46.

 

I terraform the objective on my left early, having learnt my lesson from the previous game against the T'au, I used site to site much more effectively, as well as the mission tactics and double oath from the Tome.  Special issue ammo was also really useful vs the Terminators.

 

My combat blob killed the Astraeus in 2 rounds of combat. I swapped my Watchmaster and Judiciar over, so he big blob of 10 vets can advance and charge etc, which made them more effective. 

 

As stated above, the only real change I plan to make is the Terminators for the Brutalis, and dropping the Beacon on the Gravis Captain - I think the Indomitor will have the same effect hiding them in T1 and picking them up with site to site if needed, they still then deepstrike, but the Termies give me another KT to use

 

Edited January 31 by NKirkham24

[Dr. Clock]

On 1/29/2025 at 11:20 AM, NKirkham24 said:

He was running this as Vangaurd Spearhead.

Whoah... okay...? I do like running a Leviathan every couple of months - in the app I just budget a Landraider Crusader lol.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.