How do you beat Nidzilla with marines?

[HeadlessCross]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

1) Aggressors are about 40 PPM.  Terminators are about 35.  Aggressors have a little better shooting, Terminators have some hidden Chain Fists, more HQ options, and a 2+/4++

2) Pretty sure you didn't read my post.

3) Even more sure you didn't read it because I talked about making 5 Infil + Libby too small to draw a Big Monster into 12" or less range, and said absolutely nothing about indirect fire. 

1. Chainfists aren't as good as the TL Fists since they hit on a 4+. Meanwhile the TL Fists hit in a 3+ and will wound anything T15 and below at worst just over half the time. 

2. I did, it was just bad advice. 

3. That's not the point of Infiltrators. 

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Chainfists also hit on a 4+, so you'd rather just take the TL Fists instead at that point. Yes, Terminators are bad.

 

Terminators getting a Lieutenant does not matter because getting Lethal Hits from a character is not what makes Aggressors good. Space Wolves still have their Wolf Guard Battle Leader Terminator to give Lethal Hits, and it has done literally nothing. Dark Angels had one before the Supplement and it also did nothing. 

Yeah we already did the math on Terminator and Ravenwing Bombs.  It does less per point, but not nothing.  The bomb needed everything Sustained, Lethal, 5+ Crits, and so on.  Hitting on a 4+ with rerolls is still 75% hits.  I can't tell if you just hate Termiantors or if your good/bad sensor is broken.  Vanguard Vets are bad.  Firestrike Turrets are on the good side of bad or the bad side of good. Reivers are usually kinda bad.  Company Heroes are generally bad. The Hammerfall is generally bad right now. There's a whole lot of bad and not-good before you get to Terminators. 

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

1. Chainfists aren't as good as the TL Fists since they hit on a 4+. Meanwhile the TL Fists hit in a 3+ and will wound anything T15 and below at worst just over half the time. 

2. I did, it was just bad advice. 

3. That's not the point of Infiltrators. 

1) Yeah, Chain Fists are about the same math here.  Hit on a 3+, reroll is what 84% while Chain Fists hit on 4, reroll for 75%  Then they wound on a 3+ against T everything Vehicle, and everything else T15 and below half the time.  S8 vs T15 wounds on 5's, plus 1 to wound is 4's

2) You may want to read again, you're replying to things I didn't even bring up.

3)  Sure it is.  At least one of them.  You can't deep strike in range, you can't shoot from beyond, you have to march something out there, and probably something with too much cost to make it worth it.

5 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

That sounds much more likely to hang with his list. Might consider switching the Impulsors to the shield generator instead of the missiles to make them a little tankier. They’re even better if you can proxy some Hellblasters or Infernus marines in there—they can still shoot but they’ll have the hull protecting them. The pyrovores won’t like that. 

 

If you’ve got a 2nd jump unit they’ll give you more flexibility than the Intercessors, I think, but then again with the Inceptors you’ve got plenty of deep-striking action monkeys already if you need them. You’re probably better off with  Ironstorm with this many vehicles. 

Hellblasters in the Shield Dome is a good combo here.   Good Call out. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Yeah it seems your problem was way too little AT.

get more melta, and lascannons, a lot more.

you treat full nidzilla list the same as a guard armored company list, or greater demon/demon prince spam.

[Galron]

My newer list I think is better all around

Im sticking with the Vangaurd for the -1 to hit and always in cover since almost everything gets rerolls to hit and the primary damage dealers get rerolls on everything plus OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus on the +1 to wound. 

 

Phobos LT with the lone Op cloak as warlord

 

Assault intercessor squad x5 (cheap unit to toss in an impulsor)

Intercessor squad(sticky objectives and can go in an impulsor)

 

Jump Intercessor squad

Inceptor squad x6 with plasma (2x3 or a six man?)

Infernus 5 man (rides in an impulsor to get out and flame something)

 

2x Ballistus

3x Lancer

Predator Destructor

Thunderstrike speeder for the +1 to wound and maybe the occasional damage

Vindicator for pushing forward

 

2x Impulsors with missiles- I prefer the firepower over a 5++. My logic is with OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus it has a fairly decent chance of doing some chip damage and quite often chip damage is whats needed. And 48" can reach out and touch someone early game when he is limited to 36"

 

Now I could drop the intercessors and the Infernus + cloak and have exactly enough points for a hellblaster squad and a scout squad for containment. My main opponent covers his flanks extremely well so dropping into his backfield with scouts generally doesnt work very well. I can keep the cloak and replace the scouts with an apothecary for the hellblasters or just toss a techmarine in the backfield to give +1 to hit and the random repair.(edit, for some reason engineseers give 4++s and techmarines only give +1 to hit) 

Edited January 7 by Galron

[Karhedron]

36 minutes ago, Galron said:

Inceptor squad x6 with plasma (2x3 or a six man?)

 

Generally speaking 2x3 is more flexible and also easier to deploy using Deep Strike if you need to. However there are a couple of Vanguard Stratagems that might benefit Inceptors such as Strike From The Shadows. If you think you might want to make use of the improved BS and AP then running as a 6-man brick is worth considering.

[HeadlessCross]

18 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Yeah we already did the math on Terminator and Ravenwing Bombs.  It does less per point, but not nothing.  The bomb needed everything Sustained, Lethal, 5+ Crits, and so on.  Hitting on a 4+ with rerolls is still 75% hits.  I can't tell if you just hate Termiantors or if your good/bad sensor is broken.  Vanguard Vets are bad.  Firestrike Turrets are on the good side of bad or the bad side of good. Reivers are usually kinda bad.  Company Heroes are generally bad. The Hammerfall is generally bad right now. There's a whole lot of bad and not-good before you get to Terminators. 

Reivers haven't been bad since the dataslate, and Company Heroes have niche use cases. You're really not up to date on anything, I see. 

 

Basic Terminators are bad and I can't understand why you defend them so much. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Galron said:

My newer list I think is better all around

Im sticking with the Vangaurd for the -1 to hit and always in cover since almost everything gets rerolls to hit and the primary damage dealers get rerolls on everything plus OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus on the +1 to wound. 

 

Phobos LT with the lone Op cloak as warlord

 

Assault intercessor squad x5 (cheap unit to toss in an impulsor)

Intercessor squad(sticky objectives and can go in an impulsor)

 

Jump Intercessor squad

Inceptor squad x6 with plasma (2x3 or a six man?)

Infernus 5 man (rides in an impulsor to get out and flame something)

 

2x Ballistus

3x Lancer

Predator Destructor

Thunderstrike speeder for the +1 to wound and maybe the occasional damage

Vindicator for pushing forward

 

2x Impulsors with missiles- I prefer the firepower over a 5++. My logic is with OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus it has a fairly decent chance of doing some chip damage and quite often chip damage is whats needed. And 48" can reach out and touch someone early game when he is limited to 36"

 

Now I could drop the intercessors and the Infernus + cloak and have exactly enough points for a hellblaster squad and a scout squad for containment. My main opponent covers his flanks extremely well so dropping into his backfield with scouts generally doesnt work very well. I can keep the cloak and replace the scouts with an apothecary for the hellblasters or just toss a techmarine in the backfield to give +1 to hit and the random repair.(edit, for some reason engineseers give 4++s and techmarines only give +1 to hit) 

This is definitely more tailored to fight a Nidzilla list. 

 

Keep in mind that, with Lancers, their utility is based on them not shooting the Oath target. I'd recommend going with 2 Predators and 2 Lancers instead for that reason, but that's preference there. 

 

When you say Phobos Lieutenant with Cloak, are you referring to the one with the shoot and scoot, the Reiver one, or the Combi-Weapon one?

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Reivers haven't been bad since the dataslate, and Company Heroes have niche use cases. You're really not up to date on anything, I see. 

 

Basic Terminators are bad and I can't understand why you defend them so much. 

Because Basic Terminators are not bad?  They're not broken, but they're not bad either.   As mentioned there are units that are bad.  Terminators are better than all of the units that are bad.  Bad doesn't just mean "there's better out there" bad means worse than Meh.  Virtually unplayable even in a casual/fun list. 

 

And yeah Reivers are: 

Quote

Reivers are usually kinda bad.  Company Heroes are generally bad.

USUALLY kinda bad.  Just like Company Heroes are generally bad.  The exception one-trick pony doesn't invalidate the rule, it proves the rule.  

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 1/6/2025 at 11:40 AM, HeadlessCross said:

1. Chainfists aren't as good as the TL Fists since they hit on a 4+. Meanwhile the TL Fists hit in a 3+ and will wound anything T15 and below at worst just over half the time. 

2. I did, it was just bad advice. 

3. That's not the point of Infiltrators. 

OoM target and anything <T15 is getting wounded on a 4 or better plus the built in reroll.

[HeadlessCross]

45 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

OoM target and anything <T15 is getting wounded on a 4 or better plus the built in reroll.

The built in reroll is what gives it the edge...and you're not always pointed at a vehicle or the Oath target. 

 

Terminators are bad, please stop telling people they're fine. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The built in reroll is what gives it the edge...and you're not always pointed at a vehicle or the Oath target. 

 

Terminators are bad, please stop telling people they're fine. 

They’re not bad. They’re not great.

aggressors are the offensive side, terminators are the defensive side.

 

terminators are 100% playable. Just because something isn’t an auto-include in every list doesn’t mean a unit is bad.

[DemonGSides]

12 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

They’re not bad. They’re not great.

aggressors are the offensive side, terminators are the defensive side.

 

terminators are 100% playable. Just because something isn’t an auto-include in every list doesn’t mean a unit is bad.

 

If you're asking a specific question about how to tackle a Monster Mash Nid list...

 

Yeah, Terminators are kinda bad.  They're cheap now at least compared to where they were, but they're slow and don't do what you want them to do (Which is kill big bugs) and they'll die just the same as anything else against most of those big bugs, so why not pay less?

[DemonGSides]

8 hours ago, Galron said:

My newer list I think is better all around

Im sticking with the Vangaurd for the -1 to hit and always in cover since almost everything gets rerolls to hit and the primary damage dealers get rerolls on everything plus OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus on the +1 to wound. 

 

Phobos LT with the lone Op cloak as warlord

 

Assault intercessor squad x5 (cheap unit to toss in an impulsor)

Intercessor squad(sticky objectives and can go in an impulsor)

 

Jump Intercessor squad

Inceptor squad x6 with plasma (2x3 or a six man?)

Infernus 5 man (rides in an impulsor to get out and flame something)

 

2x Ballistus

3x Lancer

Predator Destructor

Thunderstrike speeder for the +1 to wound and maybe the occasional damage

Vindicator for pushing forward

 

2x Impulsors with missiles- I prefer the firepower over a 5++. My logic is with OoM and the Thunderstrike bonus it has a fairly decent chance of doing some chip damage and quite often chip damage is whats needed. And 48" can reach out and touch someone early game when he is limited to 36"

 

Now I could drop the intercessors and the Infernus + cloak and have exactly enough points for a hellblaster squad and a scout squad for containment. My main opponent covers his flanks extremely well so dropping into his backfield with scouts generally doesnt work very well. I can keep the cloak and replace the scouts with an apothecary for the hellblasters or just toss a techmarine in the backfield to give +1 to hit and the random repair.(edit, for some reason engineseers give 4++s and techmarines only give +1 to hit) 

 

Back on topic, I like this list more; Impulsors I'd probably still keep with the 5++, I get your rationale but I think they're so anemic even the chip damage is bad.  That being said, 5++ probably isn't all that impactful for your game plan anyways, so in that regard, do what your heart tells you.  If you spike a roll it'll be SUPER memorable, and that's why I play the game, to do fun stuff!

I love Hellblasters more than Infernus, even though I DO like Infernus in an impulsor (For sweet sweet firing deck action; i would never unload them, and just use them to toast anything they have that isn't one of their big monsters; aka Gargoyles, so a bit limited in this engagement).  Those Hellblasters have assault so they can run up to where they need to if you want to drop the Impulsors as well (Since they can't be combat squaded across the impulsors, so silly GW c'mon give the impulsor something fun) and bring another bigger gun platform.

I think my biggest concern is being able to play missions with so few infantry bodies, but also infantry leaves you weak to their gameplan a bit so it's a tough balance.  The scouts could go a long way to making it work.  I wouldn't hate to see a second Vindicator in this list either; it's a legitimate strategy to use them as assault vehicles and get into close range where their guns are going to work just as well as the enemies, even though they are a more blast oriented platform.  Another JPAI wouldn't be bad either.  I am also with Karahedron that the 6 man Inceptor squad is the way to go, with Plasma, and just dedicate them to deleting Zoanthropes.  They got a little beat up with the DS change to 6", but honestly they don't mind that much, just changes where they fit in and it might cause you to have to drop a guy's ability to shoot.  Just keep that in mind when doing your arithmetic mid battle and you should do fine.

I might also want to see some Eradicators with this list?  Rerolling everything hitting their ideal target on 3's and wounding on 3's sounds hella good to me, might be hard to get them in close enough before evaporating.  Would probably want the Biologis but not absolutely necessary against this enemy skew-ier list.

Definitely like this list more overall than the first crack!  Let us know how it goes if you do play this!

Edited January 7 by DemonGSides

[HeadlessCross]

19 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Back on topic, I like this list more; Impulsors I'd probably still keep with the 5++, I get your rationale but I think they're so anemic even the chip damage is bad.  That being said, 5++ probably isn't all that impactful for your game plan anyways, so in that regard, do what your heart tells you.  If you spike a roll it'll be SUPER memorable, and that's why I play the game, to do fun stuff!

I love Hellblasters more than Infernus, even though I DO like Infernus in an impulsor (For sweet sweet firing deck action; i would never unload them, and just use them to toast anything they have that isn't one of their big monsters; aka Gargoyles, so a bit limited in this engagement).  Those Hellblasters have assault so they can run up to where they need to if you want to drop the Impulsors as well (Since they can't be combat squaded across the impulsors, so silly GW c'mon give the impulsor something fun) and bring another bigger gun platform.

I think my biggest concern is being able to play missions with so few infantry bodies, but also infantry leaves you weak to their gameplan a bit so it's a tough balance.  The scouts could go a long way to making it work.  I wouldn't hate to see a second Vindicator in this list either; it's a legitimate strategy to use them as assault vehicles and get into close range where their guns are going to work just as well as the enemies, even though they are a more blast oriented platform.  Another JPAI wouldn't be bad either.  I am also with Karahedron that the 6 man Inceptor squad is the way to go, with Plasma, and just dedicate them to deleting Zoanthropes.  They got a little beat up with the DS change to 6", but honestly they don't mind that much, just changes where they fit in and it might cause you to have to drop a guy's ability to shoot.  Just keep that in mind when doing your arithmetic mid battle and you should do fine.

I might also want to see some Eradicators with this list?  Rerolling everything hitting their ideal target on 3's and wounding on 3's sounds hella good to me, might be hard to get them in close enough before evaporating.  Would probably want the Biologis but not absolutely necessary against this enemy skew-ier list.

Definitely like this list more overall than the first crack!  Let us know how it goes if you do play this!

As long as they remember Guerilla Tactics and Strike From the Shadows, the Inceptors will be fine without the need for the 3" Deep Strike. 

[Galron]

7 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

This is definitely more tailored to fight a Nidzilla list. 

 

Keep in mind that, with Lancers, their utility is based on them not shooting the Oath target. I'd recommend going with 2 Predators and 2 Lancers instead for that reason, but that's preference there. 

 

When you say Phobos Lieutenant with Cloak, are you referring to the one with the shoot and scoot, the Reiver one, or the Combi-Weapon one?

Shoot and scoot. Combi weapon one unfortunately cant be the warlord :(

[Tacitus]

16 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Did you actually read the updates for Reivers, yes or no?

I read the current data sheet in the app - but I'm not sure what rules updates have to do with a unit you just said has been Not Bad since the Index?

[Tacitus]

16 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

If you're asking a specific question about how to tackle a Monster Mash Nid list...

 

Yeah, Terminators are kinda bad.  They're cheap now at least compared to where they were, but they're slow and don't do what you want them to do (Which is kill big bugs) and they'll die just the same as anything else against most of those big bugs, so why not pay less?

Then they may be a poor choice HERE.  That does not make them bad.  Just like Firestrikes may even be a decent?  good?  Not horrible? choice here, but that doesn't make them GOOD.  If I already had Firestrikes, I'd think about taking them.  If I didn't already have Firestrikes, I wouldn't think about going out and buying some.  The flip side of that is: If I'm playing Nidzilla and have Terminators I probably wouldn't take them - though 30 2+, 4++/4+++ Anvil wounds on a Center Objective is somewhat tempting - if I didn't have any Terminators I'd still think about going out and buying some because they're not bad.

[HeadlessCross]

29 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

I read the current data sheet in the app - but I'm not sure what rules updates have to do with a unit you just said has been Not Bad since the Index?

I said not bad since the Dataslate.

[HeadlessCross]

23 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Then they may be a poor choice HERE.  That does not make them bad.  Just like Firestrikes may even be a decent?  good?  Not horrible? choice here, but that doesn't make them GOOD.  If I already had Firestrikes, I'd think about taking them.  If I didn't already have Firestrikes, I wouldn't think about going out and buying some.  The flip side of that is: If I'm playing Nidzilla and have Terminators I probably wouldn't take them - though 30 2+, 4++/4+++ Anvil wounds on a Center Objective is somewhat tempting - if I didn't have any Terminators I'd still think about going out and buying some because they're not bad.

Firestrikes are terrible as well and aren't a good choice, period. It has too few shots to make use of its own special Overwatch rule (it doesn't even get a discount to use the Stratagem) and has zero mobility. 

 

It's like you just ignored how Terminators and their variants have been doing this entire edition. If they seriously wanted to use Terminators, there's only a couple armies that make them work due to the fact they ignore the basic datasheet. If they wanted to go 3×5 Deathwatch Terminators, hell yeah that would be a good idea. 

[Tacitus]

Just now, HeadlessCross said:

Firestrikes are terrible as well and aren't a good choice, period. It has too few shots to make use of its own special Overwatch rule (it doesn't even get a discount to use the Stratagem) and has zero mobility. 

 

Yeah, it's not the Overwatch that's even remotely tempting on the Firestrikes here.  The If-Then-If-Then-If-Then-Else for that bespoke is way too small to consider it.  The temptation is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of a Predator Annihilator for about 3/5 of the price.

 

Quote

It's like you just ignored how Terminators and their variants have been doing this entire edition. If they seriously wanted to use Terminators, there's only a couple armies that make them work due to the fact they ignore the basic datasheet. If they wanted to go 3×5 Deathwatch Terminators, hell yeah that would be a good idea. 

You mean before the Aggressor Bomb was defused?   We get it you hate Terminators, but I'm not the only one telling you that giving them a universal Bad rating is incorrect.  They MAY be bad here.  I'm not convinced their damage soaking anvil role is bad but that's pretty much down to individual taste.  There's a few different ways to go, and someone who hates terminators but loves something else - say -1D Redemptors, might think that makes Terminators Bad. 

[HeadlessCross]

On 1/8/2025 at 8:18 AM, Tacitus said:

Yeah, it's not the Overwatch that's even remotely tempting on the Firestrikes here.  The If-Then-If-Then-If-Then-Else for that bespoke is way too small to consider it.  The temptation is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of a Predator Annihilator for about 3/5 of the price.

 

You mean before the Aggressor Bomb was defused?   We get it you hate Terminators, but I'm not the only one telling you that giving them a universal Bad rating is incorrect.  They MAY be bad here.  I'm not convinced their damage soaking anvil role is bad but that's pretty much down to individual taste.  There's a few different ways to go, and someone who hates terminators but loves something else - say -1D Redemptors, might think that makes Terminators Bad. 

They MAY be bad here? No, they're bad everywhere. Your "anvil" is 175 points for OC1 without Lysander, no damage reduction, and pitiful shooting. At that point if they're barely able to participate why not just pay the extra points for the Assault variant?

 

Once again I have to reiterate that other Terminator variants have had actual applications and placings. Basic ones do not. 

[Tacitus]

28 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

They MAY be bad here? No, they're bad everywhere. Your "anvil" is 175 points for OC1 without Lysander, no damage reduction, and pitiful shooting. At that point if they're barely able to participate why not just pay the extra points for the Assault variant?

 

Once again I have to reiterate that other Terminator variants have had actual applications and placings. Basic ones do not. 

No, my Anvil is 415 points.  35 T5 2+/4++/4+++ wounds putting out 36 + 12 Sustained and Lethal S4/6 Anti-Monster 5+ Anti Vehicle 5+ AP - D1:   from an albeit expensive screening unit that's there for its defensive stats not its guns - 36 Storm bolters, 6 misses, 6 bonus hits, 6 lethal hits:  42 hits 6 of which already wounded.  12 AC shots, 2 misses 2 bonus hits, 2 lethal hits - 36 hits, wound on (natural) 5's = 12 woundings + 6 Woundings, 18 woundings at -0.   a measly 3 chip damage.  We still have 12 AC hits and 2 woundings.  4 Mortals, and 2 at -1 is about 3/4 of a wound.  - roughly/nearly 8 damage out of a unit that's there to screen big bugs off of objectives not necessarily kill them.

[Galron]

In my case I discovered I had a spare predator in a box yesterday on my cleaning up my workbench/Day of Mourning day off so I was able to not only chip away at my pile of shame a little and built another AC predator with lascannons. Fitting it into the list eliminated the skimmer giving me 20 points which then let me upgrade the assault intercessors to infernus marines for drive by burning. 

So now

Phobos LT with cloak- shoot and scoot, lone op with stealth

5 Infernus in an impulser

5 hellblasters in an impulser

6 plasma inceptors

5 Jump Intercessors

 

3 Gladiator lancers

2 Predator destructors(the ones with the Autocannon) with lascannon sponsons

2 Ballistus Dreads

 

Very much a strike list and not a go and fight the opponent list. The only ones who really need OoM are the predators and the Inceptors. Everyone else is just there for chip damage and objectives, granted some are heavier chip damage than others. The hope with the nidzilla list is to take a turn or two to simply keep my opponent off of the primaries by killing them and then start taking and stickying the NML objectives if he hasnt taken out my action guys who I will be protecting as much as possible.

[Galron]

Played my game this afternoon. We had Supply Drop with Rapid Escalation. I forgot on the above list, I also had a techmarine and a vindicator.

He played the same list, I went first keeping both the JAI and Inceptors in deep strike.

 

My T1: I pushed my two impulsors and Ballistus up to the final objective where he had a lictor. My Lancers were in a group on the far side came out to the middle along the board edge. Preds and vindy were more towards the center. Combined shooting took out two gun bugs and damaged a brain bug as well as killing all but 2 neurothropes and the neurotyrant. I achieved containment and dropped whatever the other secondary was. His T2: He moved guys up and took all three center objectives as predicted. His shooting was lackluster and did some damage to an Impulsor who overwatched and flamered a lictor to death. He got one secondary for 5vp.

 

My T2: I got set Locus and whatever one where you have to take the center objective(the one with two brain bugs, a lictor and a hive tyrant on it). I dropped my jump troops behind his lines. It took quite a bit but killed the gargoyles, remaining lictor, got one brain bug down to 4 wounds, killed the last other gun bug and reduced the neurothrope unit down to just a Tyrant. His T2: He Moved guys around. His shooting took out a predator. He tried a mad dash to get every single tank I had aside from a 1 wound impulsor in close combat but failed to do any real damage in combat.

 

Mt3: We didnt quite finish the turn but I OoM'd the Tyranofex and killed it from the final objective giving me control of it with two Ballistus, 4 infernus and an impulsor. The Lancers killed the hive tyrant who was in combat with the vindicator. The Inceptors popped the brain bug on the center objective giving me control of it. Final two brain bugs were still in combat with my lancers. My assault interceptors killed the biovore. He achieved sabotage. He conceded at this point. We figured I was going to get 32 points primary and probably max out my secondary, He was not going to have anything left on the board after my next turn except possibly a Neurotyrant if he fell back out of combat behind terrain and hid the rest of the game.

 

It was an ok list. Kind of lacks style. Vindicator was less than impressive as well. I think I might drop both the LT and techmarine and bring Shrike and  another JAI squad for some uppy downy and lone op.