Space Marine Shotguns- underutilized?

[Evil Eye]

It occurred to me that as iconic and cool as the humble shotgun is (just ask Doomguy!), it doesn't get much love in 40K. The main users of it are Genestealer Cultists, but the only Marines who really use it at all are Scouts, and even then the rules were always lacklustre. Which seemed odd to me; you'd think the Astartes would have specialized mega shotguns that would make a 12-gauge look like a pop-gun. I even get them being mostly used by Scouts due to the whole infiltration and close-quarter-combat roles they have, but they've never had particularly interesting rules, effectively being just worse bolt pistols.

 

Speaking for myself, if I were revamping the Astartes shotgun, I'd make them accessible to Scouts, Assault Marines and Veterans (and their Primaris equivalents) with Veterans getting access to special ammo for them. In terms of rules, I can only really think in terms of pre-8th mechanics, but the standard shotgun would be able to fire with two profiles (tentative names):

 

"Suppression Shell": S4 AP - Type: Assault 2

"Penetrator Slug": S4 AP - Type: Assault 1, Rending

 

The idea being that they can either fire a volley of shells for dealing with lightly armoured foes or single, powerful slugs that can pierce even thick armour with a lucky shot. Veterans might be able to upgrade their shotgun to use one of the following specialist ammunition types:

 

"Chem Munitions": Grants the Poison (4+) special rule to both profiles.

"Thermobaric Rounds": Cover saves cannot be taken against wounds inflicted by either profile (in the same way as a flamer).

"Shocker Shells/Slugs": Both profiles have the same effect as a thunder hammer; any model wounded but not killed will be reduced to Initiative 1 until the end of the next assault phase.

I'm sure the basic idea would be easy enough to translate to modern rules, I'm just putting it in terms I understand. Mostly though I just think shotguns are cool, the Astartes shotgun design is cool and I'd like it to get more love.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The issue with shotguns from an Astartes point of view is that everything it does, the bolter does better.

 

The FW Elysian range had veterans with shotguns that looked really cool, and IG shotguns were actually an improvement on lasguns without stepping on the toes of the bolter (the bolter being exceedingly rare in Guard service).  I haven't bought a Guard codex since 4th Edition so I honestly don't know if they still have access or not.

[Evil Eye]

Right, that's kinda the issue, isn't it? The whole "mini-RPG" aspect of bolters does make a lot of other weapons utterly redundant (not that that's stopped GW from slapping stubbers on Marine vehicles for some ungodly reason...); my reasoning for "why would a Marine be carrying a shotgun" beyond "shotguns are cool" being a Marine-grade shotgun would be, ironically, lighter and easier to fire on the move than a bolter, and also mechanically simpler and thus less likely to jam or be damaged in a melee (not that Marines are careless, but even the most elite troops in the world/galaxy would agree if you're regularly using your gun as a blunt instrument then the less moving parts or delicate optics or whatever the better). For a Tactical squad they're pretty redundant as for medium-range firefights you want the range and accuracy of a boltgun, but for scouts and assault squads, who are likely to be getting up close and personal and thus would appreciate something a bit easier to wield at short range/whilst moving and less likely to be fouled by the rigours of assault jumps or moving through dense cover, I can actually see them having a niche. As for veterans, obviously they're likely to be using more unconventional weapons than a standard rank-and-file Marine, and alt-ammo for the standard boltgun is something Sternguard already do. And, of course, as mentioned a Marine shotgun would be a far cry from a standard Imperial boomstick; simpler and less versatile than the bolter perhaps, but nonetheless would have its place in the armouries. Also, presumably they would be much easier to manufacture and supply with ammunition than bolters, which would make them especially suitable for more inexperienced Marines (scouts) or those performing high-risk strikes where the chance of damage to a weapon is greater (assault squads). Gotta save the Imperial Credits for extra metal polish and vellum!

 

Then again, shotguns are fairly limited in use in actual militaries in the real world, so there's that. (Though to be fair, I don't seem to recall that armoured ambulatory iron lungs with rotary cannons are especially popular in modern service either...)

 

Of course, there's some precedence for non-Scout Marines using shotguns (the Boltgun game has them IIRC) so maybe some day?

[Mazer Rackham]

25 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

It occurred to me that as iconic and cool as the humble shotgun is (just ask Doomguy!), it doesn't get much love in 40K. 

 

I understand this is for Tabletop, but you said 40k, so I'm here to tell you that in the Deathwatch RPG, shotguns are beloved - because they're filth.

 

Astartes Assault shotguns are fully automatic, have a rule which reflects buckshot, hit harder than Boltguns without Spec Ammo, (AP suffers a bit, but not bloody much) and with a few bells and whistles (and ammo) can be turned into a flamethrower, a sniper rifle, a chainsaw, can be taken by all Classes (Tac, Libby, Apoth, Assault, Dev, Techmarine) and are cheap as chips, completely reliable (Bolters are not), have a monster magazine capacity (nearly the same as a Boltgun), can equip sights, suppressors, an auxiliary grenade launcher, a shot slelector (which can carry 3 magazines, giving the shotgun 60 rounds before reload) and can be fired one-handed.

 

Want two of 'em?

 

You can get them at any Rank, upgrade them to Master-crafted for never-jamming more damage that makes peon Inquisitorial Acolytes weep, then you can make them signature wargear, which means you don't even have to ask for them - you just get it for every mission because Chapter Master Boom McSplattershot says so. What's that? You have low BS? Who gives a damn? You're putting out more firepower than Abaddon with chilli-flavoured norovirus, and you're making salsa out of everything - even Marines - because Slug rounds laugh at Marines (ignore half their toughness stat, and chuckle at armour).

 

Filth.

[Evil Eye]

Good lord. That sounds frankly brutal. Though given the legendary lethality of FFG's RPGs you'll probably need them!

 

But yeah, the Deathwatch would be the perfect place for shotguns- I seem to recall one of the Overkill guys has a frag cannon which is basically a gigantic shotgun.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I agree that shotguns need to see more use in general.

 

however shotguns aren’t that good for CQB despite what video games say.

 

a good load of buck shot will have a spread of approximately 1” per yard/meter it travels. Meaning at the longer ranges of ‘close’ hitting with at least one pellet will be a bit easier, but individual pellets hit with far less force than something like a regular rifle round.

 

i think a specific ‘Nid-round’ would be cool. Something like a 2oz slug backed up by what we would consider a double load of larger buckshot. Pellets like 15-25% larger than 00buck

 

16 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Right, that's kinda the issue, isn't it? The whole "mini-RPG" aspect of bolters does make a lot of other weapons utterly redundant (not that that's stopped GW from slapping stubbers on Marine vehicles for some ungodly reason...); my reasoning for "why would a Marine be carrying a shotgun" beyond "shotguns are cool" being a Marine-grade shotgun would be, ironically, lighter and easier to fire on the move than a bolter, and also mechanically simpler and thus less likely to jam or be damaged in a melee (not that Marines are careless, but even the most elite troops in the world/galaxy would agree if you're regularly using your gun as a blunt instrument then the less moving parts or delicate optics or whatever the better). For a Tactical squad they're pretty redundant as for medium-range firefights you want the range and accuracy of a boltgun, but for scouts and assault squads, who are likely to be getting up close and personal and thus would appreciate something a bit easier to wield at short range/whilst moving and less likely to be fouled by the rigours of assault jumps or moving through dense cover, I can actually see them having a niche. As for veterans, obviously they're likely to be using more unconventional weapons than a standard rank-and-file Marine, and alt-ammo for the standard boltgun is something Sternguard already do. And, of course, as mentioned a Marine shotgun would be a far cry from a standard Imperial boomstick; simpler and less versatile than the bolter perhaps, but nonetheless would have its place in the armouries. Also, presumably they would be much easier to manufacture and supply with ammunition than bolters, which would make them especially suitable for more inexperienced Marines (scouts) or those performing high-risk strikes where the chance of damage to a weapon is greater (assault squads). Gotta save the Imperial Credits for extra metal polish and vellum!

 

Then again, shotguns are fairly limited in use in actual militaries in the real world, so there's that. (Though to be fair, I don't seem to recall that armoured ambulatory iron lungs with rotary cannons are especially popular in modern service either...)

 

Of course, there's some precedence for non-Scout Marines using shotguns (the Boltgun game has them IIRC) so maybe some day?

 

Ironically shotguns would be better for boarding actions that marines are traditionally known for lol.

Boarding Actions games would be the primary place I’d expect to see astartes with shotguns.

omg gravis armor, a shotgun, and a shield, and a more polished version of this unholy contraption instead of an assault cannon.

 

 

[TheArtilleryman]

On 1/6/2025 at 1:13 AM, Iron Father Ferrum said:

The issue with shotguns from an Astartes point of view is that everything it does, the bolter does better.

 

The FW Elysian range had veterans with shotguns that looked really cool, and IG shotguns were actually an improvement on lasguns without stepping on the toes of the bolter (the bolter being exceedingly rare in Guard service).  I haven't bought a Guard codex since 4th Edition so I honestly don't know if they still have access or not.

They don’t have them anymore, sadly, as I have a set of FW shotguns that can’t be legally used. I’m still going to build them up at some point as a command unit or something just for the look though. It’s a shame as they would make far more sense for guard than for marines.

[Mandragola]

The new DKoK engineers, going on preorder this weekend, have the option of shotguns. They're quite cool ones with a revolver-style magazine.

 

I'm actually thinking of stealing them for some MK3 marines in heresy, though I don't have huge expectations out of the unit.