HeadlessCross Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Now a week or so has passed since Marines got their brand new detachments, and obviously there's a ton to talk about. However I did not see a dedicated thread for it, so I figured I'd start one because why not? Overall it seems that online consensus is that Librarius, Angelic Inheritors, and the new Deathwatch index were smashing successes. Meanwhile, not a lot of buzz about Champions Of Fenris, Wrathful Procession, and Lions Blade, which seems fair. The neatest thing for me at least comes from Reiver update and using them in Angelic Inheritors. The Phobos Lieutenant cam grab the enhancement that denies Overwatch, which seems SUPER clutch for the now beloved minimum Reiver squad + the Phobos Lieutenant. Obviously we all know of the Librarius Sternguard bomb. What else have people found? Edited January 6 by HeadlessCross N1SB and Cenobite Terminator 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The Chapter Specific Grotmas dets are most likely in their Chapter forum. I know the Lion's Blade is there for the DA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Wombo Combo is my favourite phrase since Combat Wombat. I do appreciate a thread comparing the Grotmas Detachment options across ALL Chapters and Deathwatch. Like I'm not quite up to date with all the commentary, but how about Librarius Detachment + Sternguard with, say...Ultramarines vs. Blood Angel Librarian Dreads and wotnot? I dunno. Looking forward to all your ideas. My baseline is that Librarian Detachment + Sternguard, using the new Mark VI models from 30k. Because I'm still not quite done with 1st ed 40k: Rogue Trader yet. I'm even thinking like Crimson Fists, y'know, hehehe. Cenobite Terminator 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 46 minutes ago, N1SB said: Wombo Combo is my favourite phrase since Combat Wombat. I do appreciate a thread comparing the Grotmas Detachment options across ALL Chapters and Deathwatch. Like I'm not quite up to date with all the commentary, but how about Librarius Detachment + Sternguard with, say...Ultramarines vs. Blood Angel Librarian Dreads and wotnot? I dunno. Looking forward to all your ideas. My baseline is that Librarian Detachment + Sternguard, using the new Mark VI models from 30k. Because I'm still not quite done with 1st ed 40k: Rogue Trader yet. I'm even thinking like Crimson Fists, y'know, hehehe. I made a quick list for a Crimson Fists Librarius. Kantor + 6 Bladeguard, 3×10 Sternguard with all standard Bolt Rifles and Heavy Bolters (all get Librarians and one gets the bomb enhancement), Phobos Librarian + 5 Incursors (Librarian gets reactive move), 10 Assault Terminators (Librarian gets Advance + Charge), and lastly two Storm Speeders (Hammerstrike and Thunderstrike). Thinking about switching those to Ballistus or Predators, but they're doing good with the Oath buff. Storms being super fast makes me lean towards them though. Also Librarian Dreads are no more, but Blood Angels can definitely go two routes for character spam. I think their specialized Detachment might be better for it though since, if you wanted Mephiston, he'd be getting two rules instead of just one. I like the idea of using it with none of the specialized Blood Angels units to get that Oath buff, but that's gonna require a lot of theory crafting and testing. N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 4 hours ago, Tacitus said: The Chapter Specific Grotmas dets are most likely in their Chapter forum. I know the Lion's Blade is there for the DA. Yeah I don't like that, so I wanted to create a master thread to compare and contrast the actual strengths of the detachments that were released and if there's any viability. N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArtilleryman Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 hours ago, N1SB said: Looking forward to all your ideas. My baseline is that Librarian Detachment + Sternguard, using the new Mark VI models from 30k. Because I'm still not quite done with 1st ed 40k: Rogue Trader yet. I'm even thinking like Crimson Fists, y'know, hehehe. Interesting, what role do the 30k marines play in your scheme? N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 8 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said: Interesting, what role do the 30k marines play in your scheme? Probably just the fact they're upscaled and they have a preference for Mk6. Everyone has their preference on armor (Mk3 for me) N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArtilleryman Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 8 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said: Probably just the fact they're upscaled and they have a preference for Mk6. Everyone has their preference on armor (Mk3 for me) Gotcha. You could use some of the new MKIII plastics then. I definitely recommend using heresy models in 40K. This is exactly what I’ve done with my Raven Guard - one army, two game systems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said: Gotcha. You could use some of the new MKIII plastics then. I definitely recommend using heresy models in 40K. This is exactly what I’ve done with my Raven Guard - one army, two game systems. Poor Dark Angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/6/2025 at 6:41 PM, HeadlessCross said: Yeah I don't like that, so I wanted to create a master thread to compare and contrast the actual strengths of the detachments that were released and if there's any viability. I'd suggest going to all the individual Chapters and finding their Grotmas Det thread, and inviting them to yours for a cross chapter comparison to get visibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6085934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 1/7/2025 at 5:00 PM, TheArtilleryman said: Interesting, what role do the 30k marines play in your scheme? Ya, just using the models to represent proper Beakies.Btw, how about Librarius in Dark Angels, leading Deathwing Knights, etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, N1SB said: Ya, just using the models to represent proper Beakies.Btw, how about Librarius in Dark Angels, leading Deathwing Knights, etc.? I tried it only twice. 3×6 ICC with 2 Librarians and Azrael, Sternguard bomb, 2 Knights with the Librarians, and lastly Phobos Librarian + Incursors. In a more competitive game it would have been terrible but I was against a more fun Tyranid swarm list and a Daemon swarm. Daemon game I won if only because the Terminators made all their saves, and the Tyranid game I won as well but not confidently. N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, N1SB said: Ya, just using the models to represent proper Beakies.Btw, how about Librarius in Dark Angels, leading Deathwing Knights, etc.? There's less for the melee-nators than there is the Shootinators. One turn +2 Move, and a nice Advance and Charge Enhancement. Iron Arm is kinda Meh adding just S and not AP, or D when you compare it to a Shootinators led by Fusilade enhance at half the cost, coupled with Prescient Precision. 40 Anti Monster+Vehicle 5+ and 12 Anti- Monster+Vehicle 5+ Dev Wounding Sustained 1(from the Libby all the time so who cares about the enhance), Lethal 1 (from the Strat), Its sort of the reincarnated Aggressor Bomb. N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 18 hours ago, Tacitus said: There's less for the melee-nators than there is the Shootinators. One turn +2 Move, and a nice Advance and Charge Enhancement. Iron Arm is kinda Meh adding just S and not AP, or D when you compare it to a Shootinators led by Fusilade enhance at half the cost, coupled with Prescient Precision. 40 Anti Monster+Vehicle 5+ and 12 Anti- Monster+Vehicle 5+ Dev Wounding Sustained 1(from the Libby all the time so who cares about the enhance), Lethal 1 (from the Strat), Its sort of the reincarnated Aggressor Bomb. What you mean is that Melee Terminator variants need less buffs, which means Strats and Enhancements can be spent elsewhere. Your mind going straight to being convinced basic Terminators can be some sorts Aggressor Bomb instead of just going straight for the Sternguard bomb with Fussilade is absolutely odd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 34 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said: What you mean is that Melee Terminator variants need less buffs, which means Strats and Enhancements can be spent elsewhere. Your mind going straight to being convinced basic Terminators can be some sorts Aggressor Bomb instead of just going straight for the Sternguard bomb with Fussilade is absolutely odd. No, what I mean is that Hammernators don't get the same support in the Det that Shootinators get. What I mean is exactly what I said and you chose to ignore. Prescience can't be taken by a Terminator Libby and thus can't be applied to any of them. Fusilade is both the cheapest and arguably best choice - and its for shooters only. Of the five Disciplines to use, 4 are generic, and 1 is shooting only. Of the five Strats, 3 are generic, 1 is Fight, and 1 is Shoot. The Fight only adds 1/2 to the STR of weapons - no keyword abilities, no AP, no D. The Shoot adds Lethal. So again - what I said was that Hammernators GET less from the Det not that they NEED less. Finally I was talking about Terminators specifically because that was the premise of the question I was answering: Quote Btw, how about Librarius in Dark Angels, leading Deathwing Knights, etc.? But since you brought up the Sternguard Bomb - Its there too - they'll get 1/2 or 2/3 shots, plus some D2 Heavy Bolters, but their upside is Dev Wounds everywhere which synergizes well with the Anti-X 5+ crits. They'll get an invuln from the Libby. 8*3=24 shots 2*3 = 6 +Sustained 1 = 7 Shots 6 hits, +1 already wounding- 12-ish Mortals But you're now T4, 24 of 2W model wounds. You can jack that up with rerolling vs OOM target 24 - 8 = 16 rerolled = ~5 more mortals + 1ish more from the HB again for 18 Mortals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessCross Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 And as you see, they brought up Deathwing Knights, not Deathwing Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 13 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said: And as you see, they brought up Deathwing Knights, not Deathwing Terminators. You have failed basic reading again. They brought up "Deahtwing Knights, etc" I even added the quote there for you. Let me do it again. Quote Btw, how about Librarius in Dark Angels, leading Deathwing Knights, etc.? BTW = By the way - they're introducing a new but related thought. How about the Librarius in Dark Angels = the new thought including criteria. This specific Det in that specific chapter Leading Deahtwing Knights, etc.? One specific unit DWK and a somewhat open ended "etc." that can reasonably be interpreted to other DA Terminators What part of that have you been unable to understand at least twice now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385011-wombo-combos-since-grotmas/#findComment-6086524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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