Platoon Command Squad and Platoon Infantry Squads gone.

[AutumnEffect]

 

Well, as predicted by some, GW continues to remove units that don't have a bespoke box;

 

 

Interested to see how Cadian, Catachan and Krieg squads will line up against eachother.

[SteveAntilles]

It's sad, but I'm curious what the new squad formats look like if there's any changes. Also You can now take 9 Heavy Weapon squads, which is kinda cool

[DemonGSides]

I'm not as upset as some people seem to be. Dealing with multiple base sizes in a single unit was annoying anyways.  This gives you tactical flexibility to move the HWT where they need to be without dealing with the other 8-18 infantry as attendants.

 

Having access to 9 HWT (albeit in specific flavors) is an interesting prospect, and also let's then point things like the heavy flamer HWT differently than the others, which brings a little bit of nuance back. No one cares what your infantry look like, so it'll be nice to have a little bit of choice back into the army. 

 

I'm more interested in the changes to our armored fist stuff, so I'm looking forward to the rest of the week. 

[Inso]

It's a shame it's happened... but I guess it's the way of things now. It's just another case of streamlining.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

There’s a lot more to the article screen shotted which can be read here…

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/e3vcso57/field-dedicated-command-infantry-and-heavy-weapons-squads-for-the-three-biggest-astra-militarum-regiments/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHqOw5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHWo82s9LVDtm-7ABlCjTGb6ADIT05u1UYvnT7HXsNNG8z6HdJ_PsPfltcQ_aem_TjdxdlpjUZhsfStnPeat1w

Edited January 7 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TheArtilleryman]

Already had my rant in the wrong thread lol…

 

In summary, I do think it’s a shame and will be a pain for me to reorganise and repaint squad markings etc, plus I’ll have 8 random guys left over that can’t form a squad, and won’t have enough special weapons to fill out the full shock troops loadout instead. Also it will take me down to 4 battleline squads from 6, which takes out a good chunk of my infantry OC core.

 

…which is probably why I’ll totally ignore it and use the legends datasheet if there is one. 
 

I’m on board with the idea of being able to use any models as any kind of infantry, and I support being able to field more heavy weapon squads, but as DemonGSides said in the other thread, it would be better to lose the planetary name in the datasheet. Could even call them just “shock troops,” “death korps” and “jungle fighters” squads and that might be easier for folks to reconcile.

Edited January 7 by TheArtilleryman

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

I'm not as upset as some people seem to be. Dealing with multiple base sizes in a single unit was annoying anyways.  This gives you tactical flexibility to move the HWT where they need to be without dealing with the other 8-18 infantry as attendants.

 

Having access to 9 HWT (albeit in specific flavors) is an interesting prospect, and also let's then point things like the heavy flamer HWT differently than the others, which brings a little bit of nuance back. No one cares what your infantry look like, so it'll be nice to have a little bit of choice back into the army. 

 

I'm more interested in the changes to our armored fist stuff, so I'm looking forward to the rest of the week. 

There’s nothing saying that HWTs are gone from squads…that’s an assumption you’re making.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

There’s nothing saying that HWTs are gone from squads…that’s an assumption you’re making.

 

The only squad that let a HWT hang with them is gone. It's not an assumption, it's literally been spelled out.

 

So unless GW does a huge pivot away from "You have a datasheet for each box we sell", then I am not sure what your hope is here. Mixed squads of Soldiers and HWT are gone, which is why they split Catachan HWT back into their own datasheet. It's literally in the article that you posted. 

 

Instead you'll have 3 different hwt datasheets that are based around the weapons, meaning you're losing out on 15 individual weapons teams (2x per Infantry Squad x6 (12) and then one each in a Platoon Command squad (15 total)) but gaining 18 individual weapons teams available in their specific datasheets (3x per datasheet, each datasheet each has 3 guys, 9+9+9 is 27).

 

So more availability, but less protection by sticking them with ablative bodies. 

Edited January 7 by DemonGSides

[Emperor Ming]

..............lost for words

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

38 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

The only squad that let a HWT hang with them is gone. It's not an assumption, it's literally been spelled out.

 

So unless GW does a huge pivot away from "You have a datasheet for each box we sell", then I am not sure what your hope is here. Mixed squads of Soldiers and HWT are gone, which is why they split Catachan HWT back into their own datasheet. It's literally in the article that you posted. 

 

Instead you'll have 3 different hwt datasheets that are based around the weapons, meaning you're losing out on 15 individual weapons teams (2x per Infantry Squad x6 (12) and then one each in a Platoon Command squad (15 total)) but gaining 18 individual weapons teams available in their specific datasheets (3x per datasheet, each datasheet each has 3 guys, 9+9+9 is 27).

 

So more availability, but less protection by sticking them with ablative bodies. 

It’s an assumption.

youre assuming that squad names being the same equates to squad composition remaining the same.

 

all 3 infantry squads may now have full access to all hvy weapons for their HWTs, or they may have limited options like

cadian- lascannon, autocannon

kreig- mortar, hvy stubber

catachan-hvy bolter, missile launcher.

 

im not saying I believe they’ll do this, but your post is, 100% an assumption of what the wargear options for these squads will be.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I gotta say though I’m not particularly enamored by any individual regimental rules we’ve seen so far.

 

assault keyword for weapons is nice though, but again that’s for individual units only not an aura let alone army wide.

Edited January 7 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TheArtilleryman]

Had a bit of a look through my box of stuff and remembered I had a few more unbuilt guys down the back of the sofa, metaphorically speaking… so I would have enough to organise the rocket launchers into HW squads and change the 6 infantry squads to Cadians … except I am now short just one pair of legs…. 
 

I’ve remembered why I had the extra guys too. Was going to make another command squad and a lascannon squad with them, for a total of 3 command, 6 infantry and 3 heavy weapon squads. That’s why I hadn’t counted them before.

Edited January 7 by TheArtilleryman

[DemonGSides]

56 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Had a bit of a look through my box of stuff and remembered I had a few more unbuilt guys down the back of the sofa, metaphorically speaking… so I would have enough to organise the rocket launchers into HW squads and change the 6 infantry squads to Cadians … except I am now short just one pair of legs…. 
 

I’ve remembered why I had the extra guys too. Was going to make another command squad and a lascannon squad with them, for a total of 3 command, 6 infantry and 3 heavy weapon squads. That’s why I hadn’t counted them before.

 

Could just run the HWT Rocket Launchers as either a Melta or a Plasma, depending on which datasheet you want to run them as.  Might require re-basing if YOU really care, but I don't think anyone would be too upset for you to increase your melee footprint to keep running a cool thematic force.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Had a bit of a look through my box of stuff and remembered I had a few more unbuilt guys down the back of the sofa, metaphorically speaking… so I would have enough to organise the rocket launchers into HW squads and change the 6 infantry squads to Cadians … except I am now short just one pair of legs…. 
 

I’ve remembered why I had the extra guys too. Was going to make another command squad and a lascannon squad with them, for a total of 3 command, 6 infantry and 3 heavy weapon squads. That’s why I hadn’t counted them before.

Yeah I wasn’t even accounting for a second or possible third special weapon guy, which makes it more annoying. 
 

I have 1 metal plasma guy, and a plastic rifleman I’ve been able to find.

 

in general seems like it was purely a move to get people to buy more kits or upgrade sprues if they have special weapons there.

[TheArtilleryman]

9 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Could just run the HWT Rocket Launchers as either a Melta or a Plasma, depending on which datasheet you want to run them as.  Might require re-basing if YOU really care, but I don't think anyone would be too upset for you to increase your melee footprint to keep running a cool thematic force.

Funny thing is the rocket launcher teams in the infantry squads are on 25mm bases like they always used to be back in the day, so they actually need rebasing on the big bases to be technically allowed anyway … I could proxy them as a plasma or something like you said but it doesn’t quite seem right to do that. I don’t mind proxying a plasma gun marine as a hellblaster but to proxy a totally different gun for something else feels a little odd. Good suggestion though.

[DemonGSides]

6 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It’s an assumption.

youre assuming that squad names being the same equates to squad composition remaining the same.

 

all 3 infantry squads may now have full access to all hvy weapons for their HWTs, or they may have limited options like

cadian- lascannon, autocannon

kreig- mortar, hvy stubber

catachan-hvy bolter, missile launcher.

 

im not saying I believe they’ll do this, but your post is, 100% an assumption of what the wargear options for these squads will be.

 

GW's made it abundantly clear in the past and particularly clear with this change that No box = no rules.  The infantry Squad and Platoon Command were some of the last few hold outs of that rule in 10th ed, and they're going the way of the dodo.  Heavy Weapon Squads are sold separately from any of the infantry squads, so it's a safe assumption based on the wording for HWS's that they are individual units and not attachable.

Now, will HWS's be able to join up to squads, like a leader unit?  Who knows. I doubt it, but I sure as heck wouldn't be putting it out there as if I believed it, while simultaneously saying I don't believe it.  Well, that'd be stupid.  Why post stuff you don't believe?

 

And we know that the HWT are going to be silo'd; the revealed Krieg ones only have a few options, and include a Heavy Flamer option that isn't available elsewhere.  Cadian HWT's will probably be the current kit, Heavy Bolter, autocannon, lascannon, missile launcher, mortar.  Krieg were previewed with Twin Linked Autocannon, Heavy Flamer, Lascannon; there could be more, but there were no confirmations beyond those three.  Catachan were shown today to have at least access to Lascannons, and if they are just keeping the currently available squad as is, you can add lascannon, heavy bolter, missile launcher, autocannon, or mortar as their options.  They aren't going to stop letting you use something that you can currently buy, so for Cadians and Catachan, they look pretty similar.  It'll be interesting to see what the DKOK HWT look like on full release as they are the current only unknown.

So definitely some overlap, but they aren't just the same squad three times.  DKOK also have a firing coordinator as part of the squad, as it says they can lose him separately; not sure if this is going to be a token type guy or an actual member of the unit, we just don't know.  ANd if Catachans get refreshed eventually (As it sorta seems like they might), that's when I would expect their equipment changes to come through.

4 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I gotta say though I’m not particularly enamored by any individual regimental rules we’ve seen so far.

 

assault keyword for weapons is nice though, but again that’s for individual units only not an aura let alone army wide.

 

What else do you need Assault on that doesn't already have it besides Battleline?  Cadian's got nerfed, but I think the Catachan assault stuff is pretty nice.  DKOK basically ignoring battleshock is gonna have great legs in most games considering IG likes to play to the objective if you're going infantry focus.

2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Funny thing is the rocket launcher teams in the infantry squads are on 25mm bases like they always used to be back in the day, so they actually need rebasing on the big bases to be technically allowed anyway … I could proxy them as a plasma or something like you said but it doesn’t quite seem right to do that. I don’t mind proxying a plasma gun marine as a hellblaster but to proxy a totally different gun for something else feels a little odd. Good suggestion though.

 

I get it.  I think then I'd just play the Rocket Launcher as a grenade laucnher; basically the same statline except just slightly less damage.  I like bringing em in my squads anyways cuz I like the sculpt for the new cadians!

Edited January 8 by DemonGSides

[OldWherewolf]

Well, all my old metal cadians just became.... cadians.  My guys with heavy weapons will now be formed into HWTs.  I think it's actually cool that a HWT may be comprised of members from different guard regiments.  then I'll paint my remaining plastic cadians as Kriegers and Catachans. And I'm using the new cadians as Kasrkin, because I"m not forking over the cash for those new models yet.

 

I'm liking the [assault] keyword on the catachans with flamers, I just hope they beef up the flamer somehow.  The current flamer is only good for chaff, which I don't think we have a problem with.  But 2 flamers in a chimera with 2 heavy flamers is looking tasty.

 

I'm not seeing a problem with the preview yet.  Ya, I have to refit and reorganize, but every good officer does that between battles. 

[Emperor Ming]

With the loss of the generic platoon command, it does mean no foot officer models for deathkrops

 

I guess people might just proxy the lord commissar as a officer model. 

 

But at this rate its becoming codex proxy

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

GW's made it abundantly clear in the past and particularly clear with this change that No box = no rules.  The infantry Squad and Platoon Command were some of the last few hold outs of that rule in 10th ed, and they're going the way of the dodo.  Heavy Weapon Squads are sold separately from any of the infantry squads, so it's a safe assumption based on the wording for HWS's that they are individual units and not attachable.

Now, will HWT's be able to join up to squads, like a leader unit?  Who knows. I doubt it, but I sure as heck wouldn't be putting it out there as if I believed it, while simultaneously saying I don't believe it.  Well, that'd be stupid.  Why post stuff you don't believe?

 

And we know that the HWT are going to be silo'd; the revealed Krieg ones only have a few options, and include a Heavy Flamer option that isn't available elsewhere.  Cadian HWT's will probably be the current kit, Heavy Bolter, autocannon, lascannon, missile launcher, mortar.  Krieg were previewed with Twin Linked Autocannon, Heavy Flamer, Lascannon; there could be more, but there were no confirmations beyond those three.  Catachan were shown today to have at least access to Lascannons, and if they are just keeping the currently available squad as is, you can add lascannon, heavy bolter, missile launcher, autocannon, or mortar as their options.  They aren't going to stop letting you use something that you can currently buy, so for Cadians and Catachan, they look pretty similar.  It'll be interesting to see what the DKOK HWT look like on full release as they are the current only unknown.

So definitely some overlap, but they aren't just the same squad three times.  DKOK also have a firing coordinator as part of the squad, as it says they can lose him separately; not sure if this is going to be a token type guy or an actual member of the unit, we just don't know.  ANd if Catachans get refreshed eventually (As it sorta seems like they might), that's when I would expect their equipment changes to come through.

 

What else do you need Assault on that doesn't already have it besides Battleline?  Cadian's got nerfed, but I think the Catachan assault stuff is pretty nice.  DKOK basically ignoring battleshock is gonna have great legs in most games considering IG likes to play to the objective if you're going infantry focus.

 

I get it.  I think then I'd just play the Rocket Launcher as a grenade laucnher; basically the same statline except just slightly less damage.  I like bringing em in my squads anyways cuz I like the sculpt for the new cadians!

It would be pretty nice if lasguns got assault, same for the sgt’s autoguns.

 

would be really helpful at getting into that rapid fire range.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also can we get this right finally?

HWT-heavy weapons team. 2 dudes 1 big boom boom.

HWS- heavy weapons squad. 3 heavy weapons teams.

[AutumnEffect]

7 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Now, will HWS's be able to join up to squads, like a leader unit?

 

That would actually be pretty rad. I'm not hopeful for it, but would be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

5 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

With the loss of the generic platoon command, it does mean no foot officer models for deathkrops

The DKK Command Squad has an officer in it;
 

It's got a Vox-man, Medic, Banner-man, Veteran and Officer.
It's just got the Commissar and a Servo-Skull as a bonus.

Edited January 8 by AutumnEffect

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

 

That would actually be pretty rad. I'm not hopeful for it, but would be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

The DKK Command Squad has an officer in it;
 

It's got a Vox-man, Medic, Banner-man, Veteran and Officer.
It's just got the Commissar and a Servo-Skull as a bonus.

That's a Junior Commissar, not an Officer.

Says so in the article.

[TheArtilleryman]

8 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I get it.  I think then I'd just play the Rocket Launcher as a grenade laucnher; basically the same statline except just slightly less damage.  I like bringing em in my squads anyways cuz I like the sculpt for the new cadians!

I did think of that … except guess what? All the special weapon guys in my squads already have grenade launchers, and you can’t take two of the same weapon (under current rules anyway). I’ve basically got two choices, stick stubbornly with the army as is and use legends, or rework it to the new style. For the rework I’ll have to add flamers to all the infantry squads for the second special weapon. 

[AutumnEffect]

17 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

That's a Junior Commissar, not an Officer.

Says so in the article.

Can you point me to where?



This guy's obviously the Lord Commissar but I haven't read anything anywhere about a Junior Commissar.

Edited January 8 by AutumnEffect

[sairence]

I'd be highly surprised if there wasn't a follow up release at some point that includes a new Foot Marshall and possibly generic horse leader. Just not now.

Edited January 8 by sairence