Making my first 30k lists

[Khulu]

Hey, all.  I have been occasionally collecting HH models I liked for a long time, bought a lot when HH2 was released. Over the summer I finally committed to one legion (White Scars) and started working on them. I know I want to focus on Sagyar Mazan, I have all the relevant books, and I have a lot built.


My issue is I need to make a list (or a few lists at different sizes) to work towards. I don't know if I will actually get to play (most of my normal group is not interested but there are local players I could meet), but I want to be able to should the opportunity arise.  It's hard to build some stuff when I have no idea what is good or what I need. Case in point: I have 10 bodies from the command squad kit with no weapons, and some heavy weapons I need to pick. I am trying to get everything built before I buy anything else, so I feel stuck on some stuff.


Are there any principles or general advice for building my first list? Was considering a 1000pt ZM list, then maybe a 3000pt full list to work towards.


The 1000pt list I was considering:
 

 

 

LA - V: White Scars - Sagyar Mazan - [1000Pts]

# ++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart ++ [1000Pts]
## Expanded Army Lists
Expanded Army List Profiles: Exemplary Units On, Legacy Units On

## Allegiance
Allegiance: Loyalist
V: White Scars

## Rite of War
Rite of War: The Sagyar Mazan (WS)

## HQ [390Pts]
Praetor [390Pts]: Warlord, Stoic Defender
• 1x Legion Praetor [165Pts]: Frag Grenades, Iron Halo, Krak Grenades, Master of the Legion, Archaeotech Pistol, Paragon Blade, Artificer Armour
• 1x Command Squad, Tartaros [225Pts]:
  • 1x Tartaros Standard Bearer w/Melee Weapon [15Pts]: Legion Standard, Thunder Hammer
  • 4x Tartaros Chosen [40Pts]: Power Fist, Combi-Bolter

## Troops [610Pts]
Despoiler Squad [105Pts]: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour
• 1x Legion Despoiler Sergeant [15Pts]: Volkite Serpenta, Chainsword (Chainsword), Power Armour
• 9x Despoilers (collective) [10Pts]: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Tactical Squad [130Pts]: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour
• 1x Legion Tactical Sergeant [2Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Power Armour
• 8x Legionary [12Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter
• 1x Legionary w/ Options [22Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Legion Vexilla
Tactical Squad [130Pts]: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour
• 1x Legion Tactical Sergeant [2Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Power Armour
• 8x Legionary [12Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter
• 1x Legionary w/ Options [22Pts]: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Legion Vexilla
Tactical Support Squad [245Pts]: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour, Plasma Gun
• 1x Legion Tactical Support Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Armour
• 8x Legionary [12Pts]: Bolt Pistol
• 1x Legionary w/ Options [12Pts]: Bolt Pistol


So I am not concerned with being really strong, I am not trying to win events or anything, I just want to know if a list has glaring issues or something like that.

 

 

]

 

Any help would be appreciated!

Edited January 8 by Khulu
duplicate text

[TheArtilleryman]

Congratulations on starting your heresy journey! Mine began back in May with the Raven Guard.

 

The list looks pretty good for your solid core of infantry, no enormous issues. Only thing I was going to ask was why you haven’t included any melee weapon upgrades for the sergeants and those despoilers that can take them, or a heavy weapon for the terminators, but then I realised you are literally squeezing every last point out of the 1k limit as it is.

 

Most of your opponents will be power armoured, so everything you can add that gives you the edge in armour piercing terms is of great value. Would it be worth losing a whole tactical squad in favour of adding some weapon upgrades, or are the extra 10 bodies more valuable? Or could you lose the chain bayonets in favour of a power weapon or plasma pistol? That’s an interesting debate that would be worth having here. Whatever you do I’d definitely model the upgrades on when you build them so you can include them in a larger list.

Edited January 7 by TheArtilleryman

[Khulu]

24 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Congratulations on starting your heresy journey! Mine began back in May with the Raven Guard.

 

The list looks pretty good for your solid core of infantry, no enormous issues. Only thing I was going to ask was why you haven’t included any melee weapon upgrades for the sergeants and those despoilers that can take them, or a heavy weapon for the terminators, but then I realised you are literally squeezing every last point out of the 1k limit as it is.

 

Most of your opponents will be power armoured, so everything you can add that gives you the edge in armour piercing terms is of great value. Would it be worth losing a whole tactical squad in favour of adding some weapon upgrades, or are the extra 10 bodies more valuable? Or could you lose the chain bayonets in favour of a power weapon or plasma pistol? That’s an interesting debate that would be worth having here. Whatever you do I’d definitely model the upgrades on when you build them so you can include them in a larger list.

That's a good point, thank you! 

 

I guess part of my confusion boils down to that question - Which upgrades are "worth it"? There's so many options (vexilla, scanner, nuncio vox, things like that) which I dont want to miss out on but they add up fast if I put them on everything. Seems like a lot of them are very specific in terms of what units might want them. I have put vexillas on a few units since they look cooler.

[Khulu]

Alright, I replaced the Praetor with a Delegatus to bring more toys. NewRecruit wouldn't let me pick a warlord trait or command squad for some reason so I added a dread instead. I might want to drop the chain bayonets for more bodies, but I think they're cool, so I might not.

 

 

LA - V: White Scars - Sagyar Mazan - [995Pts]
Rite of War: The Sagyar Mazan (WS)

## HQ [115Pts]
Centurion: Warlord, Delegatus (Master of the Legion)
• Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Refractor Field, Bolt Pistol, Thunder Hammer, Artificer Armour

## Elites [195Pts]
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [195Pts]:
• 1x Contemptor Dreadnought: Atomantic Deflector, Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Power Fist with in-built ranged weapon

## Troops [685Pts]
Assault Squad: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour, Warhawk Jump Pack
• 1x Legion Assault Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Power Armour
• 9x Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


Despoiler Squad: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour
• 1x Legion Despoiler Sergeant: Volkite Serpenta, Charnabal Glaive, Power Armour
• 9x Despoilers: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


Tactical Squad: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour
• 1x Legion Tactical Sergeant: Chain Bayonet, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Power Armour
• 8x Legionary: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter
• 1x Legionary w/ Options: Chain Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Legion Vexilla


Tactical Support Squad: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armour, Plasma Gun
• 1x Legion Tactical Support Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Power Armour
• 8x Legionary: Bolt Pistol
• 1x Legionary w/ Options: Bolt Pistol

 

[TheArtilleryman]

That looks like it would be a much more effective list. Dreadnoughts are extremely strong in AoD so bringing one along is almost a given. Having the lascannon to deal with armour is a nice extra as well.

 

If it were me I’d maybe drop the chain bayonets in favour of a couple of power weapons in the assault squad. I’d maybe drop the power fist in the support squad too to add a couple power weapons to the despoilers. These are the guys that are gonna be doing the chopping:)

 

I think that would take you 2-3 points over but most reasonable opponents won’t mind that.

Edited January 8 by TheArtilleryman

[Khulu]

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

That looks like it would be a much more effective list. Dreadnoughts are extremely strong in AoD so bringing one along is almost a given. Having the lascannon to deal with armour is a nice extra as well.

 

If it were me I’d maybe drop the chain bayonets in favour of a couple of power weapons in the assault squad. I’d maybe drop the power fist in the support squad too to add a couple power weapons to the despoilers. These are the guys that are gonna be doing the chopping:)

 

I think that would take you 2-3 points over but most reasonable opponents won’t mind that.

I'll be honest, I forgot that was an option. I haven't built my despoilers yet so I might have to do that!

[TheArtilleryman]

3 hours ago, Khulu said:

I'll be honest, I forgot that was an option. I haven't built my despoilers yet so I might have to do that!

What I’d probably do is build the guys with the chain bayonets because a) I get a feeling you like them, and b) rule of cool. But if you’re stretched for points in a 1000 point game just tell your opponent you haven’t included them in the list.

Edited January 8 by TheArtilleryman

[LameBeard]

Looking like a great list - nice that it has lots of boots on the ground. I would also drop or downgrade some powerfists to fund those extra power weapons in the assault/despoiler squads.  Modelling powerfist plus plasma gun isn’t ideal anyway. 

[Razorblade]

Basic Infantry tends to do better in large units and although this is somewhat offset in sagyar mazan because you don't need Apothecaries, I would consider cutting a unit to bump the others up to 15 guys a piece