Can anyone make sense of the new Krieg rules?

[TheArtilleryman]

9 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

But the ** second asterisk says “you cannot select more than two of these options per unit unless it contains 20 models, in which case you cannot select more than four per unit.”

It could also mean you can only take two different kinds of weapon in the unit. It’s absurdly complicated. Why they can’t just say “you can take 3 special weapons per 10” or whatever and leave it at that. I can’t see how having 3 plasmas or 3 flamers would unbalance the game that much.

 

Also on a point raised by someone else above, the medic is totally independent of the special weapons. You can have your full allocation of special weapons and a medic.

[DemonGSides]

15 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It could also mean you can only take two different kinds of weapon in the unit. It’s absurdly complicated. Why they can’t just say “you can take 3 special weapons per 10” or whatever and leave it at that. I can’t see how having 3 plasmas or 3 flamers would unbalance the game that much.

 

Also on a point raised by someone else above, the medic is totally independent of the special weapons. You can have your full allocation of special weapons and a medic.

 

Yeah I wouldn't lean on Lensovens interpretation at all.  I wouldn't lean on my own interpretation at this point.  My previous question throws a wrench into the idea that the **'s are across both lists; why not just put both lists together?  

 

Why they changed it all from the index is the more confusing part. I'm honestly losing steam on buying this box tonight because of how many errors there are in this codex. I'll never use the codex for rules but it still feels silly to invest in the data cards as well when there is gonna be so much to change on units I intend to run. 

Edited January 10 by DemonGSides

[TheArtilleryman]

8 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah I wouldn't lean on Lensovens interpretation at all.  I wouldn't lean on my own interpretation at this point.  My previous question throws a wrench into the idea that the **'s are across both lists; why not just put both lists together?  

 

Why they changed it all from the index is the more confusing part. I'm honestly losing steam on buying this box tonight because of how many errors there are in this codex. I'll never use the codex for rules but it still feels silly to invest in the data cards as well when there is gonna be so much to change on units I intend to run. 

My interpretation lines up mostly with Lensoven’s to be honest, apart from that point on the medic. Except as you say your point about the ** has chucked a spanner in the works. I really do hate GW’s rule format these days.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, MechaMan said:

But the ** second asterisk says “you cannot select more than two of these options per unit unless it contains 20 models, in which case you cannot select more than four per unit.” The asterisk is found at the end of every special weapon, and as @CyderPiratesays the asterisks apply across all sections, rather than separately, so - as written - it ought to apply to all of them collectively. That would suggest that you cannot have more than two special weapons in a ten man squad, four in a twenty man squad. Surely? 
 

as written the rules are definitely opaque and having a look on Reddit etc the interpretations seem split down the middle. 

Yes you cannot select more than 2 from that list

 

the set up is basically the same as the current wargear section that allows for 3 specials and a vox, or 2 specials and a medipack.

now if you want full weapons upgrades you’re trading that for a vox and medipack.

Edited January 10 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

36 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

My interpretation lines up mostly with Lensoven’s to be honest, apart from that point on the medic. Except as you say your point about the ** has chucked a spanner in the works. I really do hate GW’s rule format these days.

Well find out when the app updates.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Additionally, if you can’t take 2 of each, the separation of lists would also indicate you have to pick between one list or the other.

 

kreig taking 4 at a cost makes sense as they’d fill the niche of the SPS but more durable due to more numbers, or 3 with a medipack would still be equal specials as a SPS but significantly more staying power.

 

edit

also not to mention if it’s only 2 specials per 10, and a vox takes up a special option from list 2, then  you’d end up with only 1 special weapon. 

Edited January 10 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[MechaMan]

I’m just going to wait to build my Krieg squads haha 

[DemonGSides]

Yeah I don't even own any of the new Krieg yet so I'm happy to wait until it gets fleshed out a bit clearer.

[MechaMan]

Worth noting that the dominant interpretation from goonhammer, auspex tactics is 2 special weapons per 10

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

Worth noting that the dominant interpretation from goonhammer, auspex tactics is 2 special weapons per 10

Definitely not worth it if that’s the case.

either you take a vox and get only 1 special which then makes it worse than the old infantry squad for firepower, or you choose the medipack, less firepower but more durability, but might not be able to receive orders, or you get 2 specials and no way to be boosted without adding an officer.

[DemonGSides]

Yeah I think that makes sense. Keeps em a lot closer to how they are currently which makes sense.

 

I just would fire whoever was responsible for setting up that datasheet. So unnecessarily cumbersome. 

[TheArtilleryman]

42 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Definitely not worth it if that’s the case.

either you take a vox and get only 1 special which then makes it worse than the old infantry squad for firepower, or you choose the medipack, less firepower but more durability, but might not be able to receive orders, or you get 2 specials and no way to be boosted without adding an officer.

The medipack is definitely an extra option for a lasgun guy. That’s not restricted. You can take one regardless of how many special weapons you can have.

 

Also you can still receive orders without a vox in the squad, you just miss out on the extra CP.

Edited January 13 by TheArtilleryman

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

The medipack is definitely an extra option for a lasgun guy. That’s not restricted. You can take one regardless of how many special weapons you can have.

 

Also you can still receive orders without a vox in the squad, you just miss out on the extra CP.

Oh yeah, I’m still stuck on the old vox rules that actually made sense lol.

 

but even so, it’s pretty stupid to make a squad that’s basically Cadians+medipack

Edited January 13 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TheArtilleryman]

18 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Oh yeah, I’m still stuck on the old vox rules that actually made sense lol.

 

but even so, it’s pretty stupid to make a squad that’s basically Cadians+medipack

Totally. It should just be that a command unit with a vox can issue orders anywhere on the battlefield to units that have their own vox. It’s daft that the radio has less range than a bolt rifle.

[OttoVonAwesome]

This is pretty simple honestly. 2 Special weapons per 10 men with two groups of special weapons. The vox is considered a special weapon taking up the same slot as the Plasma and Melta. The problem is GW is lazy and greedy so instead of removing the kill team sprue and selling us a cheaper infantry box with maybe less options and different datasheet they stuck us with this wierd mess keeping a sprue with half the options on it unusable that's only compatible with certain bodies.

 

I'd be way happier if they sold a cheaper infantry squad with no medic and no plasma gun and it's own datasheet and second one for Veterans that uses all the kill team options like the engineer.

 

Edited January 21 by OttoVonAwesome

[huntmaster7]

Coming from a noobs perspective, I don't understand why they make the rules so convoluted with new updates. I am struggling to understand the fundamentals of the game while just enjoying the army building aspect. The data cards are very easy to understand.

[Crimson Longinus]

The entry is insane, and I don't think it is the reason why it is actually like this, but they accidentally made some balancing with this.

 

The special weapons are in two groups, the first is "worse" weapons, and the second is the "better" weapons. But to take just the better weapons you need to sacrifice the vox.

 

So for example for ten man squad you can get plasma and melta, or plasma, grenade launcher and vox, but you cannot get plasma, and melta and vox.

 

 

Edited January 22 by Crimson Longinus

[The Pounder]

Yeah, the rules are as clear as mud but what are we thinking is the best load out for our Korpsmen?

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, The Pounder said:

Yeah, the rules are as clear as mud but what are we thinking is the best load out for our Korpsmen?

Back in the day it was so simple as well lol

 

A few lines, would one guardsmen like a special weapon, pay x points.....

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, The Pounder said:

Yeah, the rules are as clear as mud but what are we thinking is the best load out for our Korpsmen?

Same as it has been; ignore the vox, slam as many plasmas and meltas as you can, add grenade launchers as available based on maximizing the other two, and bring a medic. 

 

 

[MechaMan]

And you still can't build ten guardsmen with 1 melta and 1 plasma due to there only being one arm 73

[Galron]

Best loadout that I can see for 20 guys is 2 grenade launchers, 2 plasmaguns and 2 voxes since you can only take 4 special weapons and only 2 of the same special weapon plus 2 medics and the two watch masters with power weapons and plasma. Then attach to a command squad.

[The Pounder]

Oh yes @Emperor Ming! I kinda miss those days. Balancing lists was part of the fun!

 

Thanks @DemonGSides, I still want the vox though. I see it as future proofing as who knows where GW will go with the rules!
 

@MechaMan, thanks for the heads up, I didn’t realise you couldn’t??? 
 

Solid plan @Galron! I think that hits the spot.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, The Pounder said:

Oh yes @Emperor Ming! I kinda miss those days. Balancing lists was part of the fun!

 

Thanks @DemonGSides, I still want the vox though. I see it as future proofing as who knows where GW will go with the rules!
 

@MechaMan, thanks for the heads up, I didn’t realise you couldn’t??? 
 

Solid plan @Galron! I think that hits the spot.

 

You asked for best loadout. If you wanna go different, it's no longer best, unfortunately. 

 

The vox is pretty useless in current rules.

 

I'd probably lean Plasma unless you're sticking 10 guys into a chimera to throw up the field and then I'd go melta. 

 

 

Edited January 22 by DemonGSides

[Galron]

Why is it useless? CP regen is important and you are probably going to be using CP on big 25 man blobs.(Note I dont recall what the vox on the command squad does off the top of my head). If its just a ten man though, then yeah I would agree, more guns = more better.