Can anyone make sense of the new Krieg rules?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

58 minutes ago, Galron said:

Why is it useless? CP regen is important and you are probably going to be using CP on big 25 man blobs.(Note I dont recall what the vox on the command squad does off the top of my head). If it’s just a ten man though, then yeah I would agree, more guns = more better.

Unless you are only taking kreig you’ll have plenty of voxes.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

59 minutes ago, Galron said:

Why is it useless? CP regen is important and you are probably going to be using CP on big 25 man blobs.(Note I dont recall what the vox on the command squad does off the top of my head). If its just a ten man though, then yeah I would agree, more guns = more better.

Vox on the command squad increases the range of orders. In the infantry squad it is something to do with command points.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Galron said:

Why is it useless? CP regen is important and you are probably going to be using CP on big 25 man blobs.(Note I dont recall what the vox on the command squad does off the top of my head). If its just a ten man though, then yeah I would agree, more guns = more better.

 

Because we have access to a lot of CP regeneration, so it's not as important. Since it's also dice based, its bad CP generation.

 

Useless is probably hyperbolic on my end, but a 33%-50% chance to regain a single CP is a lot less interesting to me than being able to do more damage. And when we factor in the chance of Lord Solar most likely being in the list, I have left most non-free voxes behind.

 

If it wasn't competing with a gun I would say whatever, but the fact they've jacked this datasheet up beyond all belief while things like Cadians can get their weapons and their voxes, I'm just less interested in it.  Give me one more melta/plasma over maybe possibly getting one point back.

[MechaMan]

6 hours ago, The Pounder said:

 

@MechaMan, thanks for the heads up, I didn’t realise you couldn’t??? 
.

Yeah it’s very odd given that they now try to make rules reflect what’s in the box. As it is you can either have the watch master have a boltgun (no longer an option in the rules) or a special weapons guardsmen with a melta gun or a special weapons guardsman with a plasma gun. They all use the same arm annoyingly. I think some people have worked out a conversion using the flamethrower arm but I’m yet to try it. 

[DemonGSides]

The bolt gun thing was already fixed so no worries there.

 

The lacking arms is annoying but doesn't take much hobbing to fix up with the other arms available. A little awkward posing or some greenstuff makes it not much of an issue. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

30 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

Yeah it’s very odd given that they now try to make rules reflect what’s in the box. As it is you can either have the watch master have a boltgun (no longer an option in the rules) or a special weapons guardsmen with a melta gun or a special weapons guardsman with a plasma gun. They all use the same arm annoyingly. I think some people have worked out a conversion using the flamethrower arm but I’m yet to try it. 

They already erratta’d that he can now have a boltgun

19 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

The bolt gun thing was already fixed so no worries there.

 

The lacking arms is annoying but doesn't take much hobbing to fix up with the other arms available. A little awkward posing or some greenstuff makes it not much of an issue. 

I wouldn’t quite put it at no worries.

Our whole codex is an example of just how lazy GW have become. This situation is just one example 

[MechaMan]

Oh right. Well in which case three options compete for the same arm! Is the plasma/power sword a better option than the boltgun? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 minutes ago, MechaMan said:

Oh right. Well in which case three options compete for the same arm! Is the plasma/power sword a better option than the boltgun? 

Better is relative.

boltgun has more range more likely to be useful more often.

A single power weapon in guard units aren’t that helpful, but the plasma pistol is an extra decent S AP and D for shooting.

[Galron]

Like I said, in a single 10 man squad, more guns is better than a 5+ chance to get a CP back for a strat you are probably not spending on a simple infantry squad anyway, outside of grenades that is. But in a 25 man blob where you are limited to four special weapons anyway, you might as well toss them in. I refuse to use major named characters as I dont think they belong in standard games so the Lord Solar thing is irrelevant to me. Plus I am far more likely to spend a CP on a 25 man blob than I am on a 10 man, especially since the current list I am working on only has two 25 man blobs in it along with ratlings(why? I have new models for them, thats why) and engineers + the tanks and transports. 

 

Power weapon and plasma pistol are the way to go. Every blue moon those plasma pistols and power weapons are going to actually do something as opposed to the once in a century the two bolters.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Galron said:

Like I said, in a single 10 man squad, more guns is better than a 5+ chance to get a CP back for a strat you are probably not spending on a simple infantry squad anyway, outside of grenades that is. But in a 25 man blob where you are limited to four special weapons anyway, you might as well toss them in. I refuse to use major named characters as I dont think they belong in standard games so the Lord Solar thing is irrelevant to me. Plus I am far more likely to spend a CP on a 25 man blob than I am on a 10 man, especially since the current list I am working on only has two 25 man blobs in it along with ratlings(why? I have new models for them, thats why) and engineers + the tanks and transports. 

 

Power weapon and plasma pistol are the way to go. Every blue moon those plasma pistols and power weapons are going to actually do something as opposed to the once in a century the two bolters.

…not to be that guy, but a blue moon only happens once every 200-300 years…

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Galron said:

Like I said, in a single 10 man squad, more guns is better than a 5+ chance to get a CP back for a strat you are probably not spending on a simple infantry squad anyway, outside of grenades that is. But in a 25 man blob where you are limited to four special weapons anyway, you might as well toss them in. I refuse to use major named characters as I dont think they belong in standard games so the Lord Solar thing is irrelevant to me. Plus I am far more likely to spend a CP on a 25 man blob than I am on a 10 man, especially since the current list I am working on only has two 25 man blobs in it along with ratlings(why? I have new models for them, thats why) and engineers + the tanks and transports. 

 

Power weapon and plasma pistol are the way to go. Every blue moon those plasma pistols and power weapons are going to actually do something as opposed to the once in a century the two bolters.

 

Hey man play what you find fun first and foremost.

 

But the math definitely doesn't check out on the pistol/power weapon. Most likely your squads gonna die to a man before they ever get to swing, and if they do swing they're not gonna do not much.

 

Similarly to the Plasma Pistol it isn't gonna be able to shoot most of the time whereas at least the bolt gun is gonna actually roll dice.  Neither are gonna hit that much or do that much, but one of the two is getting dice rolled a lot more often by sheer fact of its threat range. 

 

And to address the idea of Voxes; unless you're planning on going heavy infantry, I don't think you're gonna be using many strats even on a 25 man infantry blob. Your tanks and big guns are where you should be spending your limited tactical resources on stuff that's going to have the most bang for your buck.

 

If you're planning on throwing strats away on relatively weak infantry, probably want someone like Creed around so it's at least free. 

Edited January 23 by DemonGSides

[Galron]

In my current lists I use my pistols all the time. Guardsmen outside of their vehicles are dead guardsmen so they dont jump out until they have to and 90% of the time it's in rapid fire range thus pistol range. Losing our light tanks, chimeras with lascannon teams and a plasma gunner in the back, kind of hurt but plasma and melta/GL in a basic chimera list will work I suppose, at least the BS is better.   

[Plaguecaster]

On 1/23/2025 at 5:35 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Better is relative.

boltgun has more range more likely to be useful more often.

A single power weapon in guard units aren’t that helpful, but the plasma pistol is an extra decent S AP and D for shooting.

You say that but I've had extremely great luck with mine in most games especially in my last game where 2 krieg sergeants in large 20man blob with power weapons managed to kill a custodes warden together

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, Plaguecaster said:

You say that but I've had extremely great luck with mine in most games especially in my last game where 2 krieg sergeants in large 20man blob with power weapons managed to kill a custodes warden together

So you got lucky? Not really proving much.

[Sergeant Bastone]

So you can take:

 

Plasma + Grenade Launcher + Vox

 

OR

 

Plasma + Meltagun?

[TheArtilleryman]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

So you can take:

 

Plasma + Grenade Launcher + Vox

 

OR

 

Plasma + Meltagun?

It’s ridiculous how unclear this is. I still read the sheet as being able to take four special weapons.

[Crimson Longinus]

4 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

So you can take:

 

Plasma + Grenade Launcher + Vox

 

OR

 

Plasma + Meltagun?

 

Yes. I think these are the two best combos.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It’s ridiculous how unclear this is. I still read the sheet as being able to take four special weapons.

Me too.

each section is a separate option per 10 dudes.

otherwise it’s almost pointless because Cadians would be hands down better and Catachans would arguably be better as well.

 

very late edit

Especially when considering currently they can take up to 3 special weapons.

Edited January 26 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Crimson Longinus]

21 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Me too.

each section is a separate option per 10 dudes.

 

But the double asterisk is not separate for the two sections, and if it was not referring the total number of special weapons it would do nothing.

 

21 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

otherwise it’s almost pointless because Cadians would be hands down better and Catachans would arguably be better as well.

 

 

What? No. All get two special weapons, they just have different special rules and I think Death Korps have the best one, at least for large squads; they also get a medic.

[TheArtilleryman]

36 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

But the double asterisk is not separate for the two sections, and if it was not referring the total number of special weapons it would do nothing.

 

 

What? No. All get two special weapons, they just have different special rules and I think Death Korps have the best one, at least for large squads; they also get a medic.

 

The confusion here is around the wording of the double asterisk:

“You cannot take more than two of these options per unit”

 

What is not clearly defined is whether this means

 

a) “you cannot take more than two of each individual option”

 

or

 

b) “you cannot take more than two weapons in total chosen from all the double asterisked options”

 

It is extremely poorly written in English terms and desperately needs an errata clarification because in the current form it can literally mean either.

 

It would be so much easier if they just said “you can take x number of things from this list (of all special weapons plus the comm link) with no duplicates.” I know that would be slightly different from either interpretations but it would be a damn sight easier to work with.

Edited January 27 by TheArtilleryman

[Crimson Longinus]

2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

 

The confusion here is around the wording of the double asterisk:

“You cannot take more than two of these options per unit”

 

What is not clearly defined is whether this means

 

a) “you cannot take more than two of each individual option”

 

or

 

b) “you cannot take more than two weapons in total chosen from all the double asterisked options”

 

It is clear from the context that it is the latter. The single asterisk note already specifies the number of individual weapons, so this cannot mean that.

 

2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It is extremely poorly written in English terms and desperately needs an errata clarification because in the current form it can literally mean either.

 

It would be so much easier if they just said “you can take x number of things from this list (of all special weapons plus the comm link) with no duplicates.” I know that would be slightly different from either interpretations but it would be a damn sight easier to work with.

 

Yes, it is poorly written, but it is not indecipherable. I also like the balancing caused by not being able to take the vox if you take only the better weapons. If we do not have bespoke points for different weapons (though we should!) then this sort of thing is one way to give a reason for taking the weaker weapons.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

But the double asterisk is not separate for the two sections, and if it was not referring the total number of special weapons it would do nothing.

 

 

What? No. All get two special weapons, they just have different special rules and I think Death Korps have the best one, at least for large squads; they also get a medic.

Sure they all get 2, unless DCK want a medipack and a vox…

Edited January 27 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Crimson Longinus]

7 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Sure they all get 2, unless DCK want a medipack and a vox…

 

Medipack is not related to this, it is an independent choice. And you can get two specials and a vox, as long as one of your special is from the first category.

[Maritn]

After reading the datasheet almost 10 times I've come to the conclusion that it's at most 2 special weapons per 10 man (initially I also though 4 / 10). If you could take 2 from each section, the ** would not limit anything, as the limit of 2 from each section and at most 1 unique per 10 is already handled by the text and the *. If you remove the **, you could take 4 / 10, and the ** is to limit it to 2 / 10. If that makes any sense to you. 

 

At least that's what I'm understanding.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Medipack is not related to this, it is an independent choice. And you can get two specials and a vox, as long as one of your special is from the first category.

If you say so. I’ll reread it when the codex is actually out. I have no interest in looking at a :cuss:ty photo full of glare again.