11th edition starter speculation.

[Emperor Ming]

i struggle to get excited about codex's that are in the back end of the edition, its kinda like whats the point

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

40 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think you're mistaking and edition change like from 9th to 10th.

 

In the other type of edition change, Codexes remained valid because the rules changes weren't big and sweeping.  Tyranids famously used their 6th Ed codex in 7th for a long time; the difference now is the quicker turn around on FAQs and errata would keep that "pain" quite a bit lessened; we've seen them make big emergency moves like giving Drukari a whole new detatchment and re-indexing Deathwatch in the middle of an edition, I think they could quite easily do the same for any sore points in a small edition change like being discussed. 

I’m not mistaking anything. You’re clearly misunderstanding my post.

 

in 11th core rules will change, otherwise there’d be no reason for a new edition.

 

just as an example, if <twin linked> gets changed to reroll misses, and the first new codexes apply 6 shots to TL’d heavy bolters, that’s a big difference compared to now.

even though the last codex of 10th will be usable, it won’t be remotely optimized for the new rules.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

11 hours ago, Halandaar said:

All I will say here is that if 11th Edition arrives this summer, I'm done playing 40k for good. I'll continue to collect cool models but the gaming aspect of it will be done. The three-year turnover for editions is already too fast when some factions don't even get their Codexes until over two years in and hardly get chance to play before a new edition nukes them back to zero again.

 

On the other hand, if they came out with a sort of 10.1 box (2 new armies, rulebook reprinted with the changes introduced in Balance Updates etc) and then pushed 11th out to 2027 I would actually find that pretty encouraging. 

Smart choice. I played consistently from 2nd to 5th. Nowadays I play very little and have become more of a painter/collector. New editions not only demand the purchase of new books but they also often come along with weird changes to unit loadouts. You would then need to break apart your models to remain in a legal gaming framework. Nobody has sympathy for that.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I highly doubt 11E would come out this summer, given all the previously mentioned reasons and that now we have a Codex roadmap that runs essentially through summer. With that still not even covering all Codexes, I fail to see that being probable. So to me, nothing is out of the ordinary for their currently standard 3-year cycle.

[Halandaar]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:40 PM, DemonGSides said:

 

I think you're mistaking and edition change like from 9th to 10th.

 

In the other type of edition change, Codexes remained valid because the rules changes weren't big and sweeping.  Tyranids famously used their 6th Ed codex in 7th for a long time; 

 

That was old GW, where is was possible for factions to go two or even three editions with the same Codex. Current GW wants to sell you a book every edition: the change from 8th to 9th at the core rules level was not significant enough to justify every army getting a new codex, but they did it anyway to accommodate Crusade (which could have been implemented as a single expansion book instead). 

 

I simply don't have any faith in GW to move to 11th Edition and not replace all the Codexes again, and if they're going to start doing it even more regularly than they do now then that's a hard pass from me.

[Madao]

I choose to believe in SM vs DarkMech and moving Vashtor into that range - it was the biggest plot-point of AoO and building 11ed as continuation of the story would be really nice

[ThePenitentOne]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

That was old GW, where is was possible for factions to go two or even three editions with the same Codex. Current GW wants to sell you a book every edition: the change from 8th to 9th at the core rules level was not significant enough to justify every army getting a new codex, but they did it anyway to accommodate Crusade (which could have been implemented as a single expansion book instead). 

 

I simply don't have any faith in GW to move to 11th Edition and not replace all the Codexes again, and if they're going to start doing it even more regularly than they do now then that's a hard pass from me.

 

I believe 11th will be a 10.5 just like 9th was an 8.5.

 

And yes, the .5 editions WILL put out a new codex for every faction- that's not what makes them .5 editions.

 

What makes them .5 editions is that the core rules updates aren't strong enough to prevent people from using the codex of the previous edition. When 9th dropped, EVERY faction had a Codex, because 8 ed dexes worked until replaced by the 9th ed dex. When 11th drops, I believe everyone will be allowed to continue using their 10th dex until their 11th arrives.

 

12th, on the other hand, will blow up everything on day one, and you'll take your index and like it until GW gets around to you.

 

I could be wrong of course, but if we make it to 12 with the pattern intact, I think it's safe to assume that is GW's way forward. We're not far enough along to know for sure yet. Through the lens of this pattern, it is possible for GW to make the 6 year edition cycle in two 3 year increments even more pronounced, because there are some benefits.

 

In 9th, for example, I still used some 8th ed content for the Inquisition- specifically the Terminator Inquisitor. And once you throw Crusade into the mix, it gets cooler: when the edition begins, you have bespoke Crusade content that you can use right out of the gate, and GW has the potential to release NEW Crusade content during the .5 edition. This edition, White Dwarf has proven that it's easy to add additional bespoke content that neither replaces nor invalidates what's already there.

[Emperor Ming]

30 minutes ago, ThePenitentOne said:

 

I believe 11th will be a 10.5 just like 9th was an 8.5.

Same, I have a hunch they might try every 6 years is a reset 

 

Thou so far resets have only happened due to dire editions 7th and 9th

 

 

[Jscarlos18]

I'm with ThePenitentOne on this, 11th will just be 10.5. The only thing I hope changes is the return of Psichic Phase and possibly add psyker units to faction that don't have them.

 

What I want to see for next ed is more refreshes for units that really need them. Add a second LoV/WE/DG/TSons/EC wave and give Karandras his deserved update.

Edited January 19 by Jscarlos18

[Halandaar]

7 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Same, I have a hunch they might try every 6 years is a reset 

 

Six years is probably as often as GW thinks it can get away with making people's premium hardback Codexes completely unusable within six months of release and then double monetising them by selling a get-you-by card pack AND another Codex for the new edition.

But this, also, is too much. We went nearly 20 years between the previous two big resets (3rd Edition in 1998 and 8th Edition 2017). I'm not going to argue that such a reset for 8th wasn't warranted, I think we all agree that 7th had bloated the game to an unmanageable extent, but re-resetting the game 6 years later for 10th suggests either a lack of confidence in the system they created for 8/9th, or simply a cynical financial move to generate more book sales.

 

Given that the wider 40k community insists that the default way to play is Matched with all the latest updates and supplements (and GW undoubtedly knows this), I'm inclined towards the latter. They know that every new edition and new Codex will be adopted by the majority of the player base and the remainder either have to follow suit in order to keep playing, or drop out of the scene into more specialised groups playing older game versions. That peer-pressure marketing basically lets GW do whatever they want knowing that most players will adopt it.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

5 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Six years is probably as often as GW thinks it can get away with making people's premium hardback Codexes completely unusable within six months of release and then double monetising them by selling a get-you-by card pack AND another Codex for the new edition.

 

But this, also, is too much. We went nearly 20 years between the previous two big resets (3rd Edition in 1998 and 8th Edition 2017). I'm not going to argue that such a reset for 8th wasn't warranted, I think we all agree that 7th had bloated the game to an unmanageable extent, but re-resetting the game 6 years later for 10th suggests either a lack of confidence in the system they created for 8/9th, or simply a cynical financial move to generate more book sales.

 

Given that the wider 40k community insists that the default way to play is Matched with all the latest updates and supplements (and GW undoubtedly knows this), I'm inclined towards the latter. They know that every new edition and new Codex will be adopted by the majority of the player base and the remainder either have to follow suit in order to keep playing, or drop out of the scene into more specialised groups playing older game versions. That peer-pressure marketing basically lets GW do whatever they want knowing that most players will adopt it.

Gee-Dubbs: "We are NOT a gaming company. We are a book publishing company. All hail to BOOKROMUNDA!"

[DemonGSides]

6 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Six years is probably as often as GW thinks it can get away with making people's premium hardback Codexes completely unusable within six months of release and then double monetising them by selling a get-you-by card pack AND another Codex for the new edition.

 

But this, also, is too much. We went nearly 20 years between the previous two big resets (3rd Edition in 1998 and 8th Edition 2017). I'm not going to argue that such a reset for 8th wasn't warranted, I think we all agree that 7th had bloated the game to an unmanageable extent, but re-resetting the game 6 years later for 10th suggests either a lack of confidence in the system they created for 8/9th, or simply a cynical financial move to generate more book sales.

 

Given that the wider 40k community insists that the default way to play is Matched with all the latest updates and supplements (and GW undoubtedly knows this), I'm inclined towards the latter. They know that every new edition and new Codex will be adopted by the majority of the player base and the remainder either have to follow suit in order to keep playing, or drop out of the scene into more specialised groups playing older game versions. That peer-pressure marketing basically lets GW do whatever they want knowing that most players will adopt it.

 

9th was a bloated mess where every faction had access to like 90 strategems, and Space Marines had been saddled with so many extra rules you needed both books and FAQs just to get to baseline.

 

I think 10th is the most solid foundation for a game they've had in a while, so I could see them not blowing everything up in 12th. But I could also see the Money Man demanding that they do just cuz like it's been said, GW gotta get as much money as possible. 

[Halandaar]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

9th was a bloated mess where every faction had access to like 90 strategems, and Space Marines had been saddled with so many extra rules you needed both books and FAQs just to get to baseline.

 

Sure, maybe I'm just being an old man here when I still think of that as being a substantial improvement over 7th where you needed Codex SM, the Angels of Death supplement, potentially a chapter-specific supplement, potentially a campaign book with a specific detachment in it, and then the Forgeworld book if you wanted any of those units, and then the FAQs and erratas for all of those books on top.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 hours ago, Jscarlos18 said:

I'm with ThePenitentOne on this, 11th will just be 10.5. The only thing I hope changes is the return of Psichic Phase and possibly add psyker units to faction that don't have them.

 

What I want to see for next ed is more refreshes for units that really need them. Add a second LoV/WE/DG/TSons/EC wave and give Karandras his deserved update.

Yeah sorry, psychic powers don’t need their own phase.

just use them in the most appropriate phase.

[ZeroWolf]

Yeah i can't see that coming back plus, if it did, it'd probably require a reboot of sorts as multiple datasheets would be nulled and have to be updated. Plus I don't think it's that big a loss as this was how 3rd edition handled it.

[Jalleo]

I have said in places outside B&C that I think they will try to move to a 4 year cycle as that would allow for each main game system to have its release year window and have a more systemic approach.

 

It might not happen for 11th edition but I cannot see the 3 year model staying if they plan to support heresy AND old world with new plastic releases in 2-3 years from now.

 

With regards to 11th boxset I think it is more likely that we would get a gravis or jump pack LT. In regards to captian I think its going to be a replacement for a older primaris captain.

 

Depending on what gets released later this edition I think it might be possible for a updated gravis aggressor model to appear or a new variant. It did have a lot of blowback in 8th and they might of decided to redesign it due to that. (See multipart gravis captain to DI variant)

 

For primaris troops if we arent getting a updated intercessor I think its most likely for a long range tacticus type unit to be in its place especially if primaris vanguard are coming in that box.

 

When it comes to the opposing force I can see it being Thousand sons, Orks or Drukhari. The reason why I include Thousand sons is due to the old scale existing for their units. I think they are the least likely to be updated though. Others have talked before me well enough when it comes to Orks and Drukhari.

[ThePenitentOne]

5 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

9th was a bloated mess where every faction had access to like 90 strategems, and Space Marines had been saddled with so many extra rules you needed both books and FAQs just to get to baseline.

 

 

10th still has just as many strats, but GW chooses which strats get grouped into collections.

 

NOBODY in 9th used all 36 strats, but we did get to choose for ourselves which 6 strats we were going to lean on.

 

It's like a pizzeria offering 40 toppings and saying "Build what you want." vs. "we sell these six premade pies- buy one of those or eat elsewhere."

 

(You know, ever since Subway put 15 premade subs on their menu, I've never been able to find one that's perfect for me? I always order a basic club and dress it with MY OWN CHOICES)

 

Obviously, you have a right to your own preferences, and if you like 10th, enjoy it while it lasts. But 9th, which you call a bloated mess, was the closest 40k has ever come with aligning perfectly with my own preferences. It was a gigantic sandbox where all factions had subfactions, and even build your own subfaction rules. In 10th, we've returned to "Oh, sorry, subfactions are only for Marines" except we've added "But don't worry, if you like the colour red but love Spacewolves, your Blood Angel models will be just as good at Spacewolfing, they just have to use the Spacewolves detachment."

 

Ever read the detachments and think "This is a great detachment but it would match my concept so much more if I could swap this enhancement with one from another detachment and that strat from another detachment"?

 

That's a problem no one had in 9th.

[dalmer]

11th edition:  Space Wolves vs Orks.

 

(overly simplistic explanation whilst not trying to toss spoilers from Wolftime in case folks haven't read it): 

 

1.  The two are already duking it out and the actual environment of that is important to my thinking (hint:  Warp is involved). 

2.  SW refresh makes sense because they were gifted Primaris by Bobby G. 

3.  Bobby G needs the Vlka to be at such huge numbers since Chaos on one side (Great Rift) and Orks/Nids on the other side.

4.  The Lion and Bobby G will meet, Bobby G will try and keep the Imperium together (overall strategist), the Lion will tromp around Nihilus (can forest walk to get/give updates) and... Russ comes back.  How?

5.  Environment from #1 - twas a Space Hulk.  It pops in and out, and since Logan thought it was the Wolftime anyhow they decide to give it a go.  Warp shifts, etc. craziness... and Russ comes out of the Warp

 

Bobby G (arthur), the Lion (the knight), and Russ (the wizard). 

 

This being said, I'm tired from working but tossing this out now.  ha ha.  I told folks the Lion would be what is lurking in Nihilus and trying to ride that wave.  ha ha

 

[ThePenitentOne]

The best choices for a launch box are always two of the factions who got the least new models in the previous edition.

 

GW will never do that of course, but that IS how it should be done in terms of keeping the game fun for all factions.

[Scribe]

21 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

12th, on the other hand, will blow up everything on day one, and you'll take your index and like it until GW gets around to you.

 

The glorious return of actual Points, and the FoC, and the dropping of Strats.

 

Return of the King.

[Dark Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Jalleo said:

I have said in places outside B&C that I think they will try to move to a 4 year cycle as that would allow for each main game system to have its release year window and have a more systemic approach.

 

It might not happen for 11th edition but I cannot see the 3 year model staying if they plan to support heresy AND old world with new plastic releases in 2-3 years from now.

 

With regards to 11th boxset I think it is more likely that we would get a gravis or jump pack LT. In regards to captian I think its going to be a replacement for a older primaris captain.

 

Depending on what gets released later this edition I think it might be possible for a updated gravis aggressor model to appear or a new variant. It did have a lot of blowback in 8th and they might of decided to redesign it due to that. (See multipart gravis captain to DI variant)

 

For primaris troops if we arent getting a updated intercessor I think its most likely for a long range tacticus type unit to be in its place especially if primaris vanguard are coming in that box.

 

When it comes to the opposing force I can see it being Thousand sons, Orks or Drukhari. The reason why I include Thousand sons is due to the old scale existing for their units. I think they are the least likely to be updated though. Others have talked before me well enough when it comes to Orks and Drukhari.

Based on Valrak rumours theres a chance they switch to a hard reset every 5 or even 4 years but st least some codexes carry over for odd numbered editions

[ThePenitentOne]

8 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

The glorious return of actual Points, and the FoC, and the dropping of Strats.

 

Return of the King.

Funny thing: I think they'll actually bring back costed equipment for 11th, because you could do it with Munitorum download, and it's the thing people complain about the most.

 

Now, we're never going back to what we had before, where EVERYTHING is costed, and sometimes points varied by as few as a single point. But what you'll see is that the biggest and most game changing upgrades will have costs.

 

Non-standard unit sizes (ie. per-model costs) is another thing that could be fixed with the same Munitorum download that fixes costed equipment, so these are both low hanging fruit for a .5 edition update.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Sure, maybe I'm just being an old man here when I still think of that as being a substantial improvement over 7th where you needed Codex SM, the Angels of Death supplement, potentially a chapter-specific supplement, potentially a campaign book with a specific detachment in it, and then the Forgeworld book if you wanted any of those units, and then the FAQs and erratas for all of those books on top.

 

Yeah that was all true of end of 9th too, we just had access to certain Russian sites that aren't allowed to be named here to consolidate a lot of that headache for us.

 

Lots of things have made the game better since 7th. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

If it's Xenos then Orks. 

 

Though GW may also want to rotate between Chaos and Xenos, in which case we could have a new round of Chaos. Rather than legion specific, I would guess 'standard' Chaos Space Marines. Personally I'd like it to be Orks. 

 

Also, I hate the 3 year cycle. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, ThePenitentOne said:

The best choices for a launch box are always two of the factions who got the least new models in the previous edition.

 

GW will never do that of course, but that IS how it should be done in terms of keeping the game fun for all factions.

It could be so, but I think the way they do it currently does do a pretty good job. How they view it is that with generic SM in the box, it'll sell, but then you can convert a lot of those players over to start the Xenos or Chaos force that were paired with them. So it causes there to be a lot more Death Guard, Necrons, Tyranids, and so forth players.

 

So if they did Orks vs Dark Eldar, a lot of people may just end up skipping the box, whereas if they did the SM vs Dark Eldar, you'd see a significant increase in DE players.

Edited January 19 by WrathOfTheLion