11th edition starter speculation.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

23 minutes ago, m-p-constructions said:

I would really like an Intercessor equivalent for Devastators. Different possible Weapon Options and something that would make me forget the highly controversal Desolators.

 

But to be honest i am highly sceptical to see a new edition by the end of this year. I do not think it is impossible but i do not think it is likely either.

 

 

I’m producing a homebrew codex that has just that, “Devastator Intercessors”. The whole squad may be equipped with Plasma Incinerators, Super Frag Rocket Launchers, Pyreblasters, Lascannons, Grav, Neo-Volkite etc etc 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I’m producing a homebrew codex that has just that, “Devastator Intercessors”. The whole squad may be equipped with Plasma Incinerators, Super Frag Rocket Launchers, Pyreblasters, Lascannons, Grav, Neo-Volkite etc etc 

This is the way, IMO. I really don't care for the whole "Aspect Marines" design philosophy they've come up with; along with "every loadout for a character is its own entry" it's bloated the datasheet count unnecessarily. Just having a single heavy/special weapons squad entry with options for weapons would be much better, though it would require them to reintroduce wargear costs as a thing.

A new Intercessor kit is needed; even aside from how nice it would be to have mixed armour marks, the current kit has most of the space on the sprues taken up by the different bolter receivers for now obsolete rules (rules, I might add, that were always kinda daft). Get rid of that and you've got a whole load of real estate to fill with actual options. Hell, you could consolidate the (footsloggin) Assault and Tactical Intercessors into one kit.

[DemonGSides]

5 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

This is the way, IMO. I really don't care for the whole "Aspect Marines" design philosophy they've come up with; along with "every loadout for a character is its own entry" it's bloated the datasheet count unnecessarily. Just having a single heavy/special weapons squad entry with options for weapons would be much better, though it would require them to reintroduce wargear costs as a thing.

A new Intercessor kit is needed; even aside from how nice it would be to have mixed armour marks, the current kit has most of the space on the sprues taken up by the different bolter receivers for now obsolete rules (rules, I might add, that were always kinda daft). Get rid of that and you've got a whole load of real estate to fill with actual options. Hell, you could consolidate the (footsloggin) Assault and Tactical Intercessors into one kit.

 

Nah, the assault Marines and the intercessor Marines have very different loadouts and more importantly, extremely different poses.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

41 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

This is the way, IMO. I really don't care for the whole "Aspect Marines" design philosophy they've come up with; along with "every loadout for a character is its own entry" it's bloated the datasheet count unnecessarily. Just having a single heavy/special weapons squad entry with options for weapons would be much better, though it would require them to reintroduce wargear costs as a thing.

Might I interest you in the following: 

• Tactical Intercessor Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Assault Intercessor Squad (jump pack options)
• Devastator Intercessor Squad (weapon options)
• Infiltrators (Infiltrators / Incursors) (Omni-scrambler, multispectrum array, camo cloak, (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Reivers (grav chutes, jump packs)
• Eliminators (camo cloaks, weapon options)
• Gravis Tactical Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Gravis Assault Squad
• Gravis Devastator Squad (eradicators, aggressors, more close range heavy weapons a la gravitic weapons)

41 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

A new Intercessor kit is needed; even aside from how nice it would be to have mixed armour marks, the current kit has most of the space on the sprues taken up by the different bolter receivers for now obsolete rules (rules, I might add, that were always kinda daft). Get rid of that and you've got a whole load of real estate to fill with actual options. Hell, you could consolidate the (footsloggin) Assault and Tactical Intercessors into one kit.

 

35 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Nah, the assault Marines and the intercessor Marines have very different loadouts and more importantly, extremely different poses.

 

I agree with you both. The Intercessor kit needs remaking. Too much space is taken up with bolt rifle variants that mean nothing, and they should add more armour mark helmets. By all means keep 10 Mark X but have the other marks in there too. The kit currently comes with a massive surpluss of head options, makes some some older marks. Also, add combi weapons and a few special/heavy wesapon options. AND ADD A BACK BANNER!

 

But also, Assault Intercessors need to be their own kit to keep the running poses. But hell redo that too to add other marks of helmets and - yes - A BACK BANNER!

Edited 21 hours ago by ChapterMasterGodfrey

[DemonGSides]

32 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Might I interest you in the following: 

• Tactical Intercessor Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Assault Intercessor Squad (jump pack options)
• Devastator Intercessor Squad (weapon options)
• Infiltrators (Infiltrators / Incursors) (Omni-scrambler, multispectrum array, camo cloak, (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Reivers (grav chutes, jump packs)
• Eliminators (camo cloaks, weapon options)
• Gravis Tactical Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Gravis Assault Squad
• Gravis Devastator Squad (eradicators, aggressors, more close range heavy weapons a la gravitic weapons)

 

 

I agree with you both. The Intercessor kit needs remaking. Too much space is taken up with bolt rifle variants that mean nothing, and they should add more armour mark helmets. By all means keep 10 Mark X but have the other marks in there too. The kit currently comes with a massive surpluss of head options, makes some some older marks. Also, add combi weapons and a few special/heavy wesapon options. AND ADD A BACK BANNER!

 

But also, Assault Intercessors need to be their own kit to keep the running poses. But hell redo that too to add other marks of helmets and - yes - A BACK BANNER!

 

Always a fan of more bling and I also like a variety of helmets. I don't see the old armor marks showing up in basic troops; I think keeping specialty armor pieces outside of a shoulder pad or a helmet to the Veteran kits helps keep them somewhat distinct. Then if someone wants more ornate battle line they can do some hobbying. 

[Evil Eye]

2 hours ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Might I interest you in the following: 

• Tactical Intercessor Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Assault Intercessor Squad (jump pack options)
• Devastator Intercessor Squad (weapon options)
• Infiltrators (Infiltrators / Incursors) (Omni-scrambler, multispectrum array, camo cloak, (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Reivers (grav chutes, jump packs)
• Eliminators (camo cloaks, weapon options)
• Gravis Tactical Squad (sergeant melee options, combi-weapons, squad "special" weapon, squad heavy weapon)
• Gravis Assault Squad
• Gravis Devastator Squad (eradicators, aggressors, more close range heavy weapons a la gravitic weapons)

 

 

I agree with you both. The Intercessor kit needs remaking. Too much space is taken up with bolt rifle variants that mean nothing, and they should add more armour mark helmets. By all means keep 10 Mark X but have the other marks in there too. The kit currently comes with a massive surpluss of head options, makes some some older marks. Also, add combi weapons and a few special/heavy wesapon options. AND ADD A BACK BANNER!

 

But also, Assault Intercessors need to be their own kit to keep the running poses. But hell redo that too to add other marks of helmets and - yes - A BACK BANNER!

A back banner (or indeed any kind of standard bearer) would be very nice, yeah! Banners are always cool. I'd also like some of the classic accessories (grenades, auspex, purity seals etc) as "loose" parts (that is you can glue them anywhere you want rather than having specific peg spots) purely for visual flair.

 

Assault Intercessors do need the running poses, it's true. I'm still so used to the more modular nature of older Marines where adjusting the pose was much easier, even as someone that doesn't completely hate the loss of the balljointed waists- even if I think they could have kept it and had better sculpt-fluidity AND the extra posing options by putting the belt/socket half on the legs and the ball portion and the base of the abs like the Dark Eldar plastics, making poses look more natural without locking the miniature's poseability. But that's a whole other topic.

 

Realistically, putting aside purely aesthetic options like tack-on grenades, pouches etc and different armour marks in the kit, if I were remaking the Intercessor kit I'd probably do the following:

>Add special weapons as a one-per-squad option, like the old Tacticals. Give the option of a single plasma incinerator, pyreblaster, melta rifle or grenade launcher/bolter combination (like the one it already comes with). Also an option for a heavy weapon too with a selection of heavy bolter, las-talon (or whatever the man-portable Primaris lascannon equivalent is) or missile launcher (preferably more restrained than the Desolator ones).

>Give a bigger selection of weapons for the sergeant; plasma or bolt pistol, chainsword, power weapon or power fist.

>Definitely add a banner, either backpack-mounted or handheld- not as large and ostentatious as the Ancient's banner obviously but something for the squad to rally around, on par with WHFB/AOS basic line infantry standard bearers.

>Maybe have an option that can be taken instead of the banner for a backpack-mounted auspex scanner array or comms pack, giving bonuses to accuracy or being able to benefit from character abilities from further away.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Definitely agree that the intercessor kit could use a redo to use its space for better things.

 

I could also see Hellblasters getting redone with the flamer ones as a MPK that builds both units. That kit has a ton of now useless options as well, which they could just fill with flamers instead to allow both.

 

That wouldn't necessarily be in the 11E starter though.

Edited 13 hours ago by WrathOfTheLion

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

37 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Definitely agree that the intercessor kit could use a redo to use its space for better things.

 

I could also see Hellblasters getting redone with the flamer ones as a MPK that builds both units. That kit has a ton of now useless options as well, which they could just fill with flamers instead to allow both.

 

That wouldn't necessarily be in the 11E starter though.

I’m not sure why everyone thinks intercessors need some sort of rework.

 

i was upset about the loss of special and heavy weapons, but I realized the AGL is a special weapon, and I’m over the lack of heavy weapon, and with the increased lethality of other more specialized units I don’t see that as much of a loss tbh.

[Wormwoods]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

i was upset about the loss of special and heavy weapons, but I realized the AGL is a special weapon, and I’m over the lack of heavy weapon, and with the increased lethality of other more specialized units I don’t see that as much of a loss tbh.

It's more about the aesthetic, I feel. People like (and liked) having some guys in the squad with alternate, and visually distinct weapons. Having a plasma gun in a boltgun squad just looks nice, it's a pop of colour.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

It's more about the aesthetic, I feel. People like (and liked) having some guys in the squad with alternate, and visually distinct weapons. Having a plasma gun in a boltgun squad just looks nice, it's a pop of colour.

Idk, that just seems off as a reason.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also about the larger models and bases, that seems it might be offset a bit by newer units ha wing fewer models, at least for astartes based armies

[Blindhamster]

14 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

even if I think they could have kept it and had better sculpt-fluidity AND the extra posing options by putting the belt/socket half on the legs and the ball portion and the base of the abs like the Dark Eldar plastics, making poses look more natural without locking the miniature's poseability. But that's a whole other topic.

YES

the approach taken with terminators could absolutely have worked for other marine types.

 

 

based on valraks rumours of more classic armour marks being in upcoming releases for 11th... yeah I'd say it's prime time for intercessors to get a new kit, they don't NEED one, other factions need stuff more, but I think it'll happen, the tactical squad got updated most frequently.

 

I could see intercessors getting /some/ of the tactical squad weapon options, but I don't think they'll get them all. Mechanically, since they made grenade launchers 2/squad and have decent rules I don't think they really need special/heavy weapons. You can fire the grenade and bolt rifle so I'm broadly speaking not convinced you'd get more output out of special weapons typically. But even so, I could see a shift to have stalker/auto bolt rifles become alternaitve special weapon options to grenade launchers, stalkers could get precision, more damage etc as a special weapon, whilst auto could get... something? And both weapons would still synergise with the new rule intercessors got also.

 

then yeah i'd fully expect more variety in the armour, some different chest plates, different leg designs and helm designs. I think they'll broadly still be recognisably mkx, but with clear "pieces of older armour used" approach, similar to the sternguard, but perhaps done a little better.

 

 

In terms of the main topic speculation.

 

It's pretty consistently been ~2-3 characters, a 10 man unit, an elite unit, something else right.

Some form of additional captain

Gravis or terminator ancient

vanguard

transport

new design intercessors

 

ideally no actual NEW units, we have enough for now.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

But even so, I could see a shift to have stalker/auto bolt rifles become alternaitve special weapon options to grenade launchers,

I get your point here but I would feel like this would be so lackluster and I would be disapointed with it. I feel like it's the right time to sun set tactical squads and give them a true successor.

 

It's been 8 years since we were introduced to Intercessors. I feel like enough time has passed IRL that we'd all be fine with in-universe Guilliman saying "Oh I see why Tactical Squads needed the flexibility now that I'm more familiar with the Dark Millenium".

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I get your point here but I would feel like this would be so lackluster and I would be disapointed with it. I feel like it's the right time to sun set tactical squads and give them a true successor.

 

It's been 8 years since we were introduced to Intercessors. I feel like enough time has passed IRL that we'd all be fine with in-universe Guilliman saying "Oh I see why Tactical Squads needed the flexibility now that I'm more familiar with the Dark Millenium".

They needed the flexibility because of how small chapters were. Now he’s back chapter size limits are more or less out the window.

[Frogian]

58 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

It's been 8 years since we were introduced to Intercessors

I was about to correct you, but holy :cuss: - it really has been that long.

 

Current kit holds up for them but lots of wasted space as people have said. A new kit and a rename to Tactical Intercessors would be good, but I'm not sure about bringing back special and heavy weapons. With the amount of units SM have available, I'm okay with units being more specialised, even if stuff like Eldar Guardians or Ork Boyz or whatever keep the options for different weapon types.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I get your point here but I would feel like this would be so lackluster and I would be disapointed with it. I feel like it's the right time to sun set tactical squads and give them a true successor.

 

It's been 8 years since we were introduced to Intercessors. I feel like enough time has passed IRL that we'd all be fine with in-universe Guilliman saying "Oh I see why Tactical Squads needed the flexibility now that I'm more familiar with the Dark Millenium".

Thing is, tabletop wise.. tactical squads have never really been that useful. I guess in the current shoot each weapon at a different unit it’s maybe good. On the other hand, they just gave intercessors a rule around focus firing bolters. Making stalkers a legitimately scary gun (maybe just give them sniper bolt rifle stats without the mixed ammo options) you keep the bolter squad theme but let them diversify either with the underslung grenade launcher or a couple of high powered bolter shots.
 

we have full flamer squads, plasma, melta squads etc, unless those vanish, I just don’t think the old school tactical format is that useful/important.

 

All the above said, if we got tactical weapons on intercessors I’d probably think they were cool, but would also be sad to lose grenade launchers (doubt we would keep both)

 

regardless, the base intercessor kit can be made better by ditching the the alternative magazines, just diversifying magazines in the guns themselves, and diversifying the armour a bit (oh and adding melee weapons).. that’s the other thing, getting rid of the mags will save space.. but not enough for a plethora of options, which is another reason I just don’t see full tactical squad loadouts being a thing.